Boutique/Medium Size Firm to Biglaw? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Is it possible to move from a well respected boutique or medium sized law firm (think top 3 boutique in major market within relevant practice group) to big law after 2-3 years? Does anyone have any insight on how to make this move? Also is it worth it for the money?

[papermateflair]

Is it possible to move from a well respected boutique or medium sized law firm (think top 3 boutique in major market within relevant practice group) to big law after 2-3 years? Does anyone have any insight on how to make this move? Also is it worth it for the money?

Totally possible. Maybe not at the most elite of big law firms, like a V5 or something, but I think most big law firms will give you a chance. My firm has interviewed candidates from boutiques and given them offers, and one of my coworkers came over from a super small boutique (not even a well-respected one), although they had been at a larger boutique previously. You need to sell it right (you've developed ___ expertise at the boutique, and want to be able to broaden your horizons or whatever). I think some folks think it's worth it for the money, but it depends on what you're leaving behind and why (are you leaving because the money isn't enough to put up with whatever BS is going on at the boutique? or do you just think the grass is greener? do you want to work for 5 years at a firm and then go in-house, so you need to amass as much money as possible? etc.).

[Anonymous User]

I made the move from a <10 attorney real estate firm, very well known in my market with an incredible client list, to a big firm paying market earlier this year, just as I was about to complete my 3rd full year.

It took me 4 interviews, received 2 offers. Biggest concern in interviews was my billing rate and whether I would be able to handle meeting my hour requirement while billing at my now significantly higher rate.

I made the move probably 90% for increase in pay. Only been a few months so far, but zero regrets (though I'm probably still in the honeymoon phase).

[BlackAndOrange84]

Is it possible to move from a well respected boutique or medium sized law firm (think top 3 boutique in major market within relevant practice group) to big law after 2-3 years? Does anyone have any insight on how to make this move? Also is it worth it for the money?

I think the difficulty of making this kind of move is sometimes exaggerated here. Outside of NYC, it seems to be fairly common. I know I see it a fair amount in my market. The common fact pattern seems to be picking up mid- to senior-level associates from well respected mid-market firms. Whether it's worth it depends on so many things. I think the most pertinent are what kind of partnership chances are you giving up in return for signficantly more short-term cash and how do you value your time assuming there's a difference in expectations/work load.

[BeeTeeZ]

I made the move from a <10 attorney real estate firm, very well known in my market with an incredible client list, to a big firm paying market earlier this year, just as I was about to complete my 3rd full year.

It took me 4 interviews, received 2 offers. Biggest concern in interviews was my billing rate and whether I would be able to handle meeting my hour requirement while billing at my now significantly higher rate.

As a third year associate, why would your billing rate affect your ability to meet your hours requirement?

Was the concern that clients would pull you from matters after reading your firm bio/learning that you previously worked at a small firm?

[Anonymous User]

I work in a mid sized law firm based in NYC. Associates from my firm experienced in a very specialized type of litigation routinely lateral to NYC biglaw (V50).

[Tyler_Durden]

Biglaw may give you a chance, but will ruthlessly eliminate you if you are not profitable.

[QContinuum]

As a third year associate, why would your billing rate affect your ability to meet your hours requirement?

This isn't a concern at the top V[#] firms, but at many other firms, clients are highly cost-sensitive, and the higher your billing rate, the less attractive you are to a partner looking to delegate work. At some firms, salaries and billing rates vary from person to person within a given class year - and typically, the higher your salary, the higher your billing rate (since the firm's gonna make you earn that higher salary). If you're way out at the high end of the scale for your class year, that may indeed impair your ability to source enough work to hit your minimum.

[SFSpartan]

I made the move from a <10 attorney real estate firm, very well known in my market with an incredible client list, to a big firm paying market earlier this year, just as I was about to complete my 3rd full year.

It took me 4 interviews, received 2 offers. Biggest concern in interviews was my billing rate and whether I would be able to handle meeting my hour requirement while billing at my now significantly higher rate.

As a third year associate, why would your billing rate affect your ability to meet your hours requirement?

Was the concern that clients would pull you from matters after reading your firm bio/learning that you previously worked at a small firm?

Recently lateraled from a boutique to biglaw. I totally get where OP is coming from - smaller firms typically have clients that are uber cost-sensitive, so as one gets more senior, one generally needs to be incredibly efficient to hit hours.

That said, my (admittedly limited) experience suggests that biglaw clientele face a lot less cost pressure, so meeting one's hours is less of a concern.

[BeeTeeZ]

As a third year associate, why would your billing rate affect your ability to meet your hours requirement?

This isn't a concern at the top V[#] firms, but at many other firms, clients are highly cost-sensitive, and the higher your billing rate, the less attractive you are to a partner looking to delegate work. At some firms, salaries and billing rates vary from person to person within a given class year - and typically, the higher your salary, the higher your billing rate (since the firm's gonna make you earn that higher salary). If you're way out at the high end of the scale for your class year, that may indeed impair your ability to source enough work to hit your minimum.

That all makes sense, but why would someone coming from a small firm be billed out at a (much) higher rate than her/his biglaw peers?

[Anonymous User]

Op here - basically this Q comes from the fact that 1) there is one partner who is notoriously difficult to work with and bc it is a smaller firm it's harder or impossible to get away from that person (gets angry, is rude, never good enough, sends back for ridiculous changes etc) and 2) it is unclear what the salary is year over year even though the firm starts at market. So, wondering if at BL it would be easier to avoid someone like #1, even though the work load will likely increase and, if #2 the salary will be substantially different around year 3/4.

[QContinuum]

Op here - basically this Q comes from the fact that 1) there is one partner who is notoriously difficult to work with and bc it is a smaller firm it's harder or impossible to get away from that person (gets angry, is rude, never good enough, sends back for ridiculous changes etc) and 2) it is unclear what the salary is year over year even though the firm starts at market. So, wondering if at BL it would be easier to avoid someone like #1, even though the work load will likely increase and, if #2 the salary will be substantially different around year 3/4.

BigLaw pay scales - even for secondary markets - are more or less publicly known, in general. Just do a bit of digging on these fora. Re: difficult partner, if you're in a tiny BigLaw satellite office, or in a tiny practice group, then you will likely find it difficult to entirely avoid any particular partner. If you're in a large office in a large practice group, then fairly easy to avoid a partner you don't "click" with (unless Cravath where you're assigned to specific partners).

[Blessedassurance]

Is it possible to move from a well respected boutique or medium sized law firm (think top 3 boutique in major market within relevant practice group) to big law after 2-3 years? Does anyone have any insight on how to make this move? Also is it worth it for the money?

As to the general question of whether it is possible to make the jump from boutique/midlaw to biglaw...yes, it happens all the time.

As to whether you'll be successful in your specific case...who knows? Depends on various factors.

Whether it's worth the money is subjective. Sometimes the amount of work after the jump is similar or varies by an inconsequential amount (lots of boutiques/midlaw firms make a lot of noise about "lifestyle" but tend not to be that different from biglaw firms in the same city re: hours). In my experience, the people you work with tends to have a bigger influence on your happiness or lack thereof than the hours (although I can't speak to New York).

[QContinuum]

Whether it's worth the money is subjective. Sometimes the amount of work after the jump is similar or varies by an inconsequential amount (lots of boutiques/midlaw firms make a lot of noise about "lifestyle" but tend not to be that different from biglaw firms in the same city re: hours). In my experience, the people you work with tends to have a bigger influence on your happiness or lack thereof than the hours (although I can't speak to New York).

Second this. Midlaw hours vary wildly. There are midlaw gigs with genuinely decent work/life balance, and then there are midlaw gigs that work folks more or less BigLaw hours, for much lower pay. If OP's currently working a pretty predictable 9-7 M-F, for example, they will likely find BigLaw significantly more arduous. If OP's currently working more like 9-9 M-F and frequently has their nights/weekends blown up, then OP might as well make BigLaw money while they're at it.

(I intentionally don't refer to billable hours above, because billables don't always give an accurate picture of actual time worked, especially in midlaw where, for example, associates may be expected to spend a considerable amount of nonbillable time on client development and such.)