Why is 3L OCI so hard Forum

[Anonymous User]

Lower T14. GPA is like top 40%. Secondary journal. Summered at a V50 with an offer to return. Currently looking for V10/20. Sent a bunch of emails but was either dinged or ghosted. Almost directly rejected by all the V10s without even a screener. Most of the V20s just ignored my emails.

Just wondering what these firms are looking for when they hire 3Ls. And how many 3Ls they are generally hiring each year.

[BrainsyK]

V10/20s don't hire vanilla candidates during 3L OCI. That's what 2L OCI is for. They're filling specialist slots that SAs don't want. General/rotational spots exist, but typically go to SAs poached from another V10/20 or at least someone whose grades improved significantly during 2L. Obviously, a biglaw SA and return offer are basically a must. You do fill that requirement, but if that's all you bring to the table, there's not really any reason to pick you out of a pile.

[Anonymous User]

V10/20s don't hire vanilla candidates during 3L OCI. That's what 2L OCI is for. They're filling specialist slots that SAs don't want. General/rotational spots exist, but typically go to SAs poached from another V10/20 or at least someone whose grades improved significantly during 2L. Obviously, a biglaw SA and return offer are basically a must. You do fill that requirement, but if that's all you bring to the table, there's not really any reason to pick you out of a pile.

[OP] I think this makes sense. V10/20 probably filled their classes from summer. But DPW/KE always hire 3L for finance/fund/etc. General corporate at V10 is a long shot for a V50 summer.

[Anonymous User]

V10/20s don't hire vanilla candidates during 3L OCI. That's what 2L OCI is for. They're filling specialist slots that SAs don't want. General/rotational spots exist, but typically go to SAs poached from another V10/20 or at least someone whose grades improved significantly during 2L. Obviously, a biglaw SA and return offer are basically a must. You do fill that requirement, but if that's all you bring to the table, there's not really any reason to pick you out of a pile.

This. I was at a lower T13 with top 50% grades after 2L. I was also at a V50 with a return offer. I ended up with a V5 offer and two V10 offers, all for specialist roles that I had experience in through the summer at my V50 (i.e. tax/funds). Every application I sent out for general corporate was ignored.

[Anonymous User]

V10/20s don't hire vanilla candidates during 3L OCI. That's what 2L OCI is for. They're filling specialist slots that SAs don't want. General/rotational spots exist, but typically go to SAs poached from another V10/20 or at least someone whose grades improved significantly during 2L. Obviously, a biglaw SA and return offer are basically a must. You do fill that requirement, but if that's all you bring to the table, there's not really any reason to pick you out of a pile.

This. I was at a lower T13 with top 50% grades after 2L. I was also at a V50 with a return offer. I ended up with a V5 offer and two V10 offers, all for specialist roles that I had experience in through the summer at my V50 (i.e. tax/funds). Every application I sent out for general corporate was ignored.

[OP] This is what 3L OCI is supposed to be. I also got some interviews for specific groups. Not sure whether I should join. I'm worried about exit options.

Just wondering: If I join DPW derivatives group, is there any chance to lateral to another v10 general corporate group in 1 or 2 years?

[BrainsyK]

Just wondering: If I join DPW derivatives group, is there any chance to lateral to another v10 general corporate group in 1 or 2 years?

Yes, but the odds aren't great. Firms are willing to hire and retool juniors if the economy holds, but there's no guarantee as to which firms are looking to hire when you're looking to lateral. I'd do this as a 2L strikeout. I would not do it with a V50 generalist offer. You'll probably be more valuable to V10s as a V50 junior with relevant experience than a V5 junior with none.

[Wild Card]

lmfao Quinn is the only firm hiring for general litigation at NYU's 3L OCI. They have a 3.6 cutoff, generally, which is about top 25%.

[Anonymous User]

lmfao Quinn is the only firm hiring for general litigation at NYU's 3L OCI. They have a 3.6 cutoff, generally, which is about top 25%.

Out of curiosity where are you getting this from? I thought a 3.6 was just outside the cusp of top 1/3rd.

Also, just to be on topic, I'm doing 3l OCI with a 3.67 at an upper half t14. Did 2l summer at a v40. Trying to trade up for corporate. I've received bites from a few firms for general corporate. GDC was the only v10 firm I was invited to but I had no luck with them. DPW was looking for finance associates.

And just as an example for the disparity between trading up for corporate versus specialist groups, literally as I was typing this Cravath told me they're not looking for corporate but asked if I was interested in Executive Comp and Benefits.

[jaekeem]

cuz 2L OCI exists lol

[Res Ipsa Loquitter]

3L OCI is not a major recruiting tool for big firms. To trade up firms as a generalist, I think best bet is a federal clerkship.

Hopefully you have a valid reason for wanting to trade up. Which could be

1) You were at a small satellite of a V40 and want to not work at a satellite full-time
2) Your V40 is in decline, e.g. K&L Gates

Also, I'm not sure why you went anon but didn't even say what market you're in. If you're in NY you should not be limiting yourself to V20. That cuts out excellent law firms, e.g. Milbank. If you're not in NY, then the regional rankings matter more than the V100 anyway.

[cavalier1138]

lmfao Quinn is the only firm hiring for general litigation at NYU's 3L OCI. They have a 3.6 cutoff, generally, which is about top 25%.

Out of curiosity where are you getting this from? I thought a 3.6 was just outside the cusp of top 1/3rd.

Every school is different. At NYU, 3.6 is usually the cutoff for top 25% (with some variation year-to-year, obviously).

[thepsychedelic]

lmfao Quinn is the only firm hiring for general litigation at NYU's 3L OCI. They have a 3.6 cutoff, generally, which is about top 25%.

Out of curiosity where are you getting this from? I thought a 3.6 was just outside the cusp of top 1/3rd.

Every school is different. At NYU, 3.6 is usually the cutoff for top 25% (with some variation year-to-year, obviously).

Sort of off-topic, but I’m somewhat shocked by this because at CLS, I think a 3.6 would put you solidly into top 20%