Thoughts on DPW's FIG? Forum

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Thoughts on DPW's FIG?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:58 pm

I was recently told about FIG during my DPW callback and thought it was an interesting group. So I am curious if anyone knows anything about the group culture, the hours, and whether it is a good group to potentially join as I consider my options. Thanks.

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Re: Thoughts on DPW's FIG?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:44 pm

I had one friend there who was totally miserable. My sense is that it is a very demanding group, which also has very high client development (nonbillable writing) demands. I’m not sure if it’s materially worse than other DPW groups.

That said, substantively it is the gold standard, and if you like bank regulatory work, you have pretty good options for the rest of your career. I do financial regulatory work at a DC firm, and I enjoy it a lot, though my group is very different temperamentally from DPW.

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Re: Thoughts on DPW's FIG?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I had one friend there who was totally miserable. My sense is that it is a very demanding group, which also has very high client development (nonbillable writing) demands. I’m not sure if it’s materially worse than other DPW groups.

That said, substantively it is the gold standard, and if you like bank regulatory work, you have pretty good options for the rest of your career. I do financial regulatory work at a DC firm, and I enjoy it a lot, though my group is very different temperamentally from DPW.
I have some experience with FIG at DPW (and prefer to stay anon for obvious reasons). What made your friend totally miserable there? The nature of the work, or the hours? Or something else? Also, what's the difference in temperment, if you don't mind me asking? Is it just a DC v. NYC thing?

My experience, friends there, and what I've heard third-hand all point to it being much *less* demanding than other areas of corporate work (like as M&A, Cap Markets, etc.), so this was surprising (and helpful for me, at this point in my career) to hear.

Totally correct that it's THE gold standard when it comes to bank/finance regulatory work -- no one else is even close, except maybe S&C and (to a lesser extent) one or two places in DC. The work is pretty straightforward: you read statutes like Dodd-Frank (or other peoples' analysis of such statutes) and you analyze / re-package the materials yourself. Often as a junior you'll be creating or modifying flow charts, slides, decks, and other presentations of regulations for clients who fall into the various tiers of BHCs and want to understand the regs that apply to them. It's a relatively cerebral practice, hence it's less demanding than your average M&A fire drill or bankruptcy case or deal doc review, etc.

In terms of exit options, I think it's true that, despite DPW's FIG being the very best at what it does, the exits are only to banks'/finance shops' compliance departments. But I would love to be corrected if that's a mistaken impression.

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Re: Thoughts on DPW's FIG?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:29 pm

Anonymous User wrote: I have some experience with FIG at DPW (and prefer to stay anon for obvious reasons). What made your friend totally miserable there? The nature of the work, or the hours? Or something else? Also, what's the difference in temperment, if you don't mind me asking? Is it just a DC v. NYC thing?
It was I think mostly the hours, especially considering that the volume of client development work that the group was (at least at the time) expected to produce regardless of client demands. My sense was that it’s mostly a DC/NY difference; just generally more intense.
My experience, friends there, and what I've heard third-hand all point to it being much *less* demanding than other areas of corporate work (like as M&A, Cap Markets, etc.), so this was surprising (and helpful for me, at this point in my career) to hear.
We’re coming at this from different angles, so you may well be right. I’m comparing to a similar substantive practice in DC (one of those couple of firms you mentioned that are the next step down), which is less demanding and intense. It might also be easier than DPW M&A at the same time.

That said, the thing about this type of regulatory work—which like you say is very cerebral—is that the hours themselves tend to be higher brain demand than in a lot of practices. (I’ve dabbled in others enough to know.) As an extreme example, it’s a lot harder to spend 14 hours applying the Volcker rule to some facts you haven’t seen before than 14 hours doing diligence or doc review. And, as especially prominent for DPW, reg attorneys generally have more nonbillable work.
Totally correct that it's THE gold standard when it comes to bank/finance regulatory work -- no one else is even close, except maybe S&C and (to a lesser extent) one or two places in DC. The work is pretty straightforward: you read statutes like Dodd-Frank (or other peoples' analysis of such statutes) and you analyze / re-package the materials yourself. Often as a junior you'll be creating or modifying flow charts, slides, decks, and other presentations of regulations for clients who fall into the various tiers of BHCs and want to understand the regs that apply to them. It's a relatively cerebral practice, hence it's less demanding than your average M&A fire drill or bankruptcy case or deal doc review, etc.

In terms of exit options, I think it's true that, despite DPW's FIG being the very best at what it does, the exits are only to banks'/finance shops' compliance departments. But I would love to be corrected if that's a mistaken impression.
Not that I really know myself—and my practice is a broader than DPW’s core thing—but I think that’s basically right, with a couple of caveats. First, when you talk about compliance that makes it sound like you’ll be a compliance analyst or something. But every decent sized bank has regulatory affairs/bank regulatory counsel, who can be plenty senior. Second, there are a lot of financial regulators as compared to the number of associates with this expertise, so the government is a fairly viable option.

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Re: Thoughts on DPW's FIG?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote: In terms of exit options, I think it's true that, despite DPW's FIG being the very best at what it does, the exits are only to banks'/finance shops' compliance departments. But I would love to be corrected if that's a mistaken impression.
Not that I really know myself—and my practice is a broader than DPW’s core thing—but I think that’s basically right, with a couple of caveats. First, when you talk about compliance that makes it sound like you’ll be a compliance analyst or something. But every decent sized bank has regulatory affairs/bank regulatory counsel, who can be plenty senior. Second, there are a lot of financial regulators as compared to the number of associates with this expertise, so the government is a fairly viable option.
Yes, sorry, a few particular government exit options are actually really good in this regard. I unconsciously disregarded them because I myself wouldn't take that kind of salary cut at that point in my life!! :)

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Re: Thoughts on DPW's FIG?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:15 pm

OP here. Thanks for the replies.
So would you not recommend it? Considering the limited exit options.
I do not plan on staying in biglaw for too long so ideally I would like to do something that would allow me to get a decent job after.

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Re: Thoughts on DPW's FIG?

Post by oblig.lawl.ref » Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:39 am

I've heard from a few people who were either at DPW or had good friends in this group at DPW that this group is very demanding hours-wise. It's a top notch group. Supposedly just great lawyers. Great training. People that know will recognize it on your resume.

That being said, I've heard it's hell.

This is how biglaw works. Welcome kids.

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Re: Thoughts on DPW's FIG?

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:28 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP here. Thanks for the replies.
So would you not recommend it? Considering the limited exit options.
I do not plan on staying in biglaw for too long so ideally I would like to do something that would allow me to get a decent job after.
Anon from above. I wouldn’t say the exit options are bad at all; they’re just narrow. It really comes down to whether you like the substance. If you like being a bank regulatory lawyer better than being a corporate lawyer, then you’ll like the exits better too.

ETA: To provide a few examples from my firm (which as I said has a slightly different practice mix thank DPW, but I think is still helpful): Recently, I’ve seen people leave to be staff counsel on a Senate committee, staff counsel at a financial regulatory think tank, in-house counsel at big bank, lateral to a more specialized firm, and one person go to DOJ (this person did more bank litigation and regulatory enforcement rather than typical bank regulatory work).

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Re: Thoughts on DPW's FIG?

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:25 am

I have experience with this group so staying anon.

They are the best group in the practice area, but it is very demanding.

So things about the group.

1. Living wills- you may hate them and they are month long projects that require an extreme amount of work.

2. The business development cycle of the group is brutal. You can expect to be up all night doing business dev when things are slow.

3. Secondments- Nearly everyone in the group gets seconded at some point. It’s part of the groups business model. Some times they hope to place you there. A lot of people I know who got seconded ended up leaving to work for the bank they were seconded at.

4.Exit options is basically any organization that is regulated by a financial regulator. I think the exit
options are very good for New York.

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Re: Thoughts on DPW's FIG?

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Aug 31, 2019 5:17 pm

I’m amused by the army of DPW associates who think their FIG group is a clear #1. That’s not at all the conventional wisdom, but you folks do you.

Anon bc I work on the periphery of FIG stuff elsewhere.

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Re: Thoughts on DPW's FIG?

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Aug 31, 2019 6:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I’m amused by the army of DPW associates who think their FIG group is a clear #1. That’s not at all the conventional wisdom, but you folks do you.

Anon bc I work on the periphery of FIG stuff elsewhere.
Sorry bud, you're wrong: they definitely are #1 in that area. I'm not at DPW and no longer work in FIG, but have in the past and still know people from many backgrounds (firms, gov., academia) in this area. Congrats on your "periphery of FIG stuff elsewhere", but you'd have to have a personal axe to grind if you're in some sort of denial thinking it's not the conventional wisdom.

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Re: Thoughts on DPW's FIG?

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Aug 31, 2019 6:50 pm

You really think they are considered obviously better than S&C and that either S&C or DPW are that much better than Cleary?

(Shrug)

If you say so. You guys are making it sound like Wachtell’s M&A practice or something and thats not my experience.

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Re: Thoughts on DPW's FIG?

Post by jarofsoup » Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote:You really think they are considered obviously better than S&C and that either S&C or DPW are that much better than Cleary?

(Shrug)

If you say so. You guys are making it sound like Wachtell’s M&A practice or something and thats not my experience.
Those groups are competitors. Also thought they had a lesser market share.

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Re: Thoughts on DPW's FIG?

Post by jbagelboy » Sat Aug 31, 2019 11:49 pm

Exits from FIG are ridiculous. Best in the industry.

Lifestyle isn’t always great but when is it in biglaw

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Re: Thoughts on DPW's FIG?

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:25 am

Anonymous User wrote:You really think they are considered obviously better than S&C and that either S&C or DPW are that much better than Cleary?

(Shrug)

If you say so. You guys are making it sound like Wachtell’s M&A practice or something and thats not my experience.
Here's some color, for those interested. S&C and Cleary are DPW's nearest competitors in the area since Cravath stopped competing for this stuff some years before the '07 recession hit, but it's not that close in terms of breadth and depth. DPW has 4 or 5 of the most well-regarded partners in this area: Guynn and Tahyar are the very best on this side of the Atlantic, and Rosenberg (who made partner a bit earlier than normal at DPW because he was so successful in FIG and they were worried about losing him) is regarded as the next rising star. Cohen, at S&C, is at the very top of the game along with Guynn and Tahyar, but that's pretty much it at S&C. You might think this type of ranking is silly, but if you're making fine distinctions (or competing for bank clients, who are a traditionally conservative bunch), it's the reality.

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Re: Thoughts on DPW's FIG?

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Sep 01, 2019 1:22 pm

Anon for similar reasons as other posters. The posts in this thread seem directionally right but

1. Some of the comments re: living wills and nonbillable expectations reflect a perspective from earlier this decade. Both still things to consider, but less so than in say, 2015.

2. In addition to the exit options people have mentioned, exits to fintechs are also now a realistic possibility.

3. Agree that Cleary isn’t quite on the same level, but surprised that people think DPW clearly outpaces S&C

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