Senior Associate - Chicago - AMA Forum

[Anonymous User]

Senior associate in Chicago in one of the "elite" practice groups in the city. Worked until 3 last night. On the train by 7 to do it again today. Should hit my hours by end of September, which will make my bonus obnoxiously large. Lots of firm and non-firm roles. Apparently up for partner next year.

Happy to be a resource, so AMA.

Gating question: Is it worth it? I'm not sure.

[Anonymous User]

Transactional or Lit?

As a more junior associate, any thoughts on what you would do differently?

For bonuses, is the increase from the Cravath scale for billing past your target worth it?

[Anonymous User]

Transactional with a heavy regulatory role, so I dabble in lit-light a lot.

Set very firm boundaries about what you will and wont tolerate. Easier said than done, but finding a partner who appreciates you and will protect you from opportunistic cannibals is key to psyche. I also wish I would have taken better physical care of myself from the outset. It took me until last year to make it a priority, and my current health and mindset is phenomenally better.

Early on - yes, a Cravath plus is awesome because you make huge dents on student loans. As you senior, it becomes golden handcuffs. First world problem, yes, but I've sacrificed a lot by heavy billing.

[Anonymous User]

Any thoughts on the reputations of Steptoe vs Husch Blackwell in the city? May as well throw in Morgan Lewis too.

[unlicensedpotato]

I assume you wouldn't do it this year given the push for partner, but in the past, if you had hit your hours this early, would it have been acceptable to take say 3+ weeks of vacation in October or November? Or are you, for example, too enmeshed in everything for that to be workable?

ETA: Is there a certain amount of savings where, if you hit it, you would walk away even as an equity partner?

[soft blue]

Taking care of your health meaning, what, not getting hammered every night? Sometimes having a salad instead of fries?

Re: boundaries, is this in terms of "I can only do so much work well" or "I won't tolerate someone treating me like shit."

Are you often on the opposite side of NYC V10-ish firms? Thoughts on relative quality between them and the Chicago elite?

[Anonymous User]

It's challenging to compare firms. Not to be trite, but odds are you'll lateral anyway.

There is precedent for taking a month for wedding/honeymoon, but it's not something I'd be comfortable doing otherwise. This year will probably be an aggressive "work from home" December, and I will be much more liberal in taking 3-day weekends. If that derails partnership, then that is another measure of what's wrong with BigLaw.

[Anonymous User]

For me taking care of health means regular pre-work exercise so I dont make excuses, avoiding late night "fuck it, I deserve it" binges, monthly mental health check-ins, and limiting alcohol to social events.

Boundaries - both. Know thineself. When you feel your agency slipping, your happiness will very soon follow. Learn how to say no - no I cant do that, no I wont do that, and no you cannot speak to me like that.

NY V10 have great partners. Their associates are....a challenge. Often too brilliant to be practical - at least in my world. Obviously a generalization, but I felt my legal work and confidence improve significantly when I stopped looking at cross-associates' credentials.

[Anonymous User]

I'd love to hear about your perspective on the Chicago legal market. I'm in a major secondary market, and I'm curious about Chicago. What made you choose Chicago and why have you stayed?

Other than some of the things you've mentioned before (taking care of health, boundaries), what are somethings you wish you did differently in your career, and things you think you've done well?

[Anonymous User]

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Transactional with a heavy regulatory role, so I dabble in lit-light a lot.

Set very firm boundaries about what you will and wont tolerate. Easier said than done, but finding a partner who appreciates you and will protect you from opportunistic cannibals is key to psyche. I also wish I would have taken better physical care of myself from the outset. It took me until last year to make it a priority, and my current health and mindset is phenomenally better.

Early on - yes, a Cravath plus is awesome because you make huge dents on student loans. As you senior, it becomes golden handcuffs. First world problem, yes, but I've sacrificed a lot by heavy billing.

Any advice on how to identify the “opportunistic cannibals”?

[Anonymous User]

It's challenging to compare firms. Not to be trite, but odds are you'll lateral anyway.

Sure-- I'm just asking if you have heard anything reputation-wise about any of these firms. No need to compare them to one another.

[Anonymous User]

Other lessons learned:

1. Be miserly with your time. Dont do everything, though it is tempting. A good piece of advice I heard as a junior is to join one organization to fill your wallet; join another to fill your soul. That harkens well to in-form obligations, too. Am I doing this because it's good for me or because no one else will?

2. Get as good of a home office as you can afford. Promptly. A second monitor is non- negotiable.

3. Deference gets annoying, but understand internal politics. Some senior associates and jr partners want to review every email. Others (like me) trust you to protect your bar card and be sure you're right. Running non-legal "is this tone right" emails past me gets old quickly. You have an inbox full of go-bys.

4. Develop a passion. I write a lot, which has been very good for internal and external business generation. The job becomes much more fun when you know what you're talking about. But learning rarely happens solely through billable work. Look for opportunities to write with or speak with an expert on a subject you think has legs.

[Anonymous User]

I chose Chicago to be closer to family after a few years away. Law school and my first law firm were in a secondary market, so lateraling was always the goal. Chicago's legal market is a strong, small community. Not quite as much homerism as I experienced in a smaller market, but still plenty of "where did you go to high school." Two degrees of separation, which is also why I hesitate to compare firms. We all bitch and moan about our jobs, but I havent heard any red flags about Steptoe or Husch or Morgan Lewis.

[Anonymous User]

Any advice on how to identify the “opportunistic cannibals”?

It's tough. They are often the seemingly nice ones. "Such a good job, but will you also look at it from this angle?" Or if you say no, and they say it will just take an hour. Or the scope creeps after your first work product is submitted. Perhaps coincidentally, the worst cannibals also seem to be the staunchest hall monitors and face time advocates. Pop by for a chat and a 'would you mind also...' Non-cannibals want to go home, too. They dont want to waste 20 minutes chatting.

I've never understood the metric of choosing a place with people you want to have a beer with. Yes, I really like my coworkers, but I dont really want to drink with them. I want to go home. Chatty and over-familiarity breeds overstepping cannibalism.

[Anonymous User]

Senior associate in Chicago in one of the "elite" practice groups in the city. Worked until 3 last night. On the train by 7 to do it again today. Should hit my hours by end of September, which will make my bonus obnoxiously large. Lots of firm and non-firm roles. Apparently up for partner next year.

Happy to be a resource, so AMA.

Gating question: Is it worth it? I'm not sure.

Thanks for doing this OP. From WI originally and briefly considered a move to Chicago before deciding on my NY V5. Do you see a difference in the client base and the type of work you receive in Chicago vis a vis colleagues in NYC?

[Anonymous User]

Come back to the Midwest. You know you miss unending winters. I've seen no measurable difference in the sophistication of work or clients vis a vis NYC in the slightest. I've managed multiple 8-figure transactions. And we are regularly engaged by NYC V5 to serve as expert co-counsel on thorny deals.

I guess the underlying theme is that practice can sometimes matter more than the V - not that my firm is a no-name. And chasing a higher V may not mean more practice prestige or cash money if the work isnt there to feed you and help your career grow. Unless you're merely looking for a resume pedigree. Im shocked by the number of legal recruiters who compare dick sizes by starting emails with "former v10 associate turned recruiter."

[Anonymous User]

With regards to bonuses, what kind of increase is typical for billing above target?

For example, if 2000 is target, would 2100 receive a meaningfully larger bonus?

[Anonymous User]

From my understanding, achieving Cravath plus is a firm-by-firm crap shoot. For those firms where I have the most personal experience, hitting hours means a Cravath or near-Cravath bonus. Hitting 2100 without much else to put in your end-of-year self-evaluation is not super likely to result in a meaningfully larger bonus, so those 100 hours are your gift to the firm -- particularly if you're being evaluated against others who hit 2100+ and also wrote, spoke, served on committees, saved the world, and have a winning smile and shiny shoes. Gone are the days where one can put one's head down and churn out 50 consecutive 40-billable hour weeks of good work. In old LSAT terms, that's a necessary but not sufficient condition for high bonus success.

[Anonymous User]

How often do you have 3AM nights? Is it possible to get to where you are without staying up that late all the time?

[Anonymous User]

Fortunately, 3am-ers are rare. I'm a pretty disciplined 8am - 8pm worker with a solid 6.5hrs of sleep and a good workout before work. But when 3am happens, they hurt - so I make sure I send several emails around that time to build professional capital.

The game has no rules, so make them up as you go along. One can certainly progress without late nights; one cannot progress without working both hard and smart.

[whats an updog]

do you have kids?

[Anonymous User]

No kids. Spouse and pets.

FWIW, sometimes I think I am "abused" more because I dont have kids.

[Anonymous User]

Thoughts on Jenner in Chicago? Weighing an offer with them (lit) vs a second tier DC firm.

[Anonymous User]

Good thoughts on Jenner lit. Their office chair is a lit guy and quite possibly the nicest lawyer in the city.