Shearman vs. Sidley vs. MoFo vs. Paul Hastings (NY) Forum

[chinchillaa]

I was fortunate to receive an offer from these firms (NY) and I would really appreciate any input. I am interested in transactional work and care about: (1) good exit options after 2-3 years (2) solid training/strength of corporate practices (3) decent culture. International opportunities and less emphasis on face time are nice-to-haves but not decisive for me.

Please don't crucify me for misinformation or references to Vault below. I just wanted to collect my findings and assumptions here in case anyone has comments.

Shearman (B4 Elite; 26 Vault NY)
Most concerned about culture - Closed doors and I met a lot of intense and visibly tired people. Not sure if all the talk about their "decline" is warranted. Shearman is the only elite corporate practice of the 4 firms according to Chambers. Strong M&A and Capital Markets practices. International opportunities. Largest NY office (500)

Sidley (B2 Highly Regarded; 18 Vault NY)
Mixed personalities but the people were much more chill than Shearman. Stronger in Funds and Capital Markets. No real concerns but just not sure how their core transactional groups stack up to Shearman (M&A, CM, Finance). Large NY office (400)

MoFo (B3 Highly Regarded; 29 Vault NY)
Great culture, wonderfully quirky people but I'm concerned about their niche reputation. Are they a respected corporate player in NY? I'm not sure what to make of their similar rankings to Shearman on Vault M&A and CM. Better exit-ops for in-house at big tech/media companies. Smallest NY office (<200).

PH (B3 Highly Regarded; 22 Vault NY)
Great culture but I'm concerned about the limited transactional strengths. I'd be inclined to do Finance because their M&A/Capital Markets are too small. 300 person NY office.

[Anonymous User]

Re: Shearman

Closed doors are really only a thing on certain floors, and it's generally the exception and not the norm for a floor culture. Otherwise, people generally only close doors if they are on calls, really need to buckle down and not be bothered, or need some monetary privacy to change or something like that. I've never met any screamers or truly toxic personalities, but there are definitely people who are "intense," but I think that just comes with stressful hours, demanding clients, a heavy workload, and a desire to succeed, and I'm sure there are many of those people at the other firms you've listed. Shearman's M&A is still truly elite and far above the other firms you listed. It has worked on the #3 and #13 largest deal of the decade, and it continually works on similarly large deals. The Capital Markets group is also very strong and much less behind Sidley's Capital Markets group than Shearman's M&A group is ahead. For example, I pulled up the first half 2018 Capital Markets league tables, and Sidley shows up 47 times and Shearman shows up 41 times. In comparison, I pulled up the first half 2018 M&A league tables, and Sidley shows up 5 times and Shearman shows up 16 times. The Finance group is probably similar to Sidley, but Sidley definitely has a much more robust Funds group.

Hope that helps.

Anon, because I've worked at Shearman.

[DoveBodyWash]

Either Shearman or MoFo. Shearman has strongest corporate practice that i think is worth exploring, even if culture sucks. Also better chance of hitting your hours if they have a minimum. You can always leave. MoFo because it offers something unique in terms of industry/clients/culture.

[chinchillaa]

Re: Shearman

Closed doors are really only a thing on certain floors, and it's generally the exception and not the norm for a floor culture. Otherwise, people generally only close doors if they are on calls, really need to buckle down and not be bothered, or need some monetary privacy to change or something like that. I've never met any screamers or truly toxic personalities, but there are definitely people who are "intense," but I think that just comes with stressful hours, demanding clients, a heavy workload, and a desire to succeed, and I'm sure there are many of those people at the other firms you've listed. Shearman's M&A is still truly elite and far above the other firms you listed. It has worked on the #3 and #13 largest deal of the decade, and it continually works on similarly large deals. The Capital Markets group is also very strong and much less behind Sidley's Capital Markets group than Shearman's M&A group is ahead. For example, I pulled up the first half 2018 Capital Markets league tables, and Sidley shows up 47 times and Shearman shows up 41 times. In comparison, I pulled up the first half 2018 M&A league tables, and Sidley shows up 5 times and Shearman shows up 16 times. The Finance group is probably similar to Sidley, but Sidley definitely has a much more robust Funds group.

Hope that helps.

Anon, because I've worked at Shearman.

Thanks for sharing your experience. The league table comparison are also very helpful. I am curious if anyone knows whether working on larger deals at places like Shearman and Sidley will be advantageous for lateraling compared to more mid-market deals at PH and MoFo? Or am I thinking about this the wrong way?

Either Shearman or MoFo. Shearman has strongest corporate practice that i think is worth exploring, even if culture sucks. Also better chance of hitting your hours if they have a minimum. You can always leave. MoFo because it offers something unique in terms of industry/clients/culture.

Thanks for your response. I didn't know Shearman had a minimum because Above the Law says they have 0/2050 for Hours Expectation (Stated/Real) whereas my other options have Stated expectations. Where do you find this information?

[Anonymous User]

Shearman doesn't have an hours requirement.

[Anonymous User]

As a practicing attorney with friends at all of these places and who used to be at one of these 4 in NY, I'd probably start at Shearman over the others full stop if you're interested in corporate work. And like the poster above me stated, no hours req. At the other 3, you'll probably make 50-100k less than your friends over the course of 4 years by missing bonus 2 years (only half make it, and it is almost completely out of your control, although maybe MoFo NY now pays bonus in NY without hours req I no longer know).

[Anonymous User]

Shearman's corporate practices are exceptional.

M&A (2019): CBS-Viacom, Raytheon-UTC, Dow-DowDuPont
CM (2019): Boeing, Ford, General Electric, etc.

I know less about CM, so here are some links:

https://www.shearman.com/news-and-event ... nasdaq-ipo
https://www.shearman.com/news-and-event ... s-offering
https://www.shearman.com/news-and-event ... green-bond