Covington DC - are associates happy? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Considering several firms, Covington DC probably more so than anywhere else, and I am trying to get more info on associate life there. I know this may depend somewhat on practice. I am not really considering litigation FWIW.

My sense is that associates are satisfied, rarely leave to go to other big law firms (though many go to government or nonlaw), and the work/hours/time in office are on the good side as far as big law is concerned. Seemed very quiet as advertised, but in a polite sort of way, and I get the vibe that partners are respectful to associates, etc.

But I have also seen some people post some very harsh things about the firm on these pages, and I know that it tends to attract very impressive people generally, which makes me wonder whether the place feels competitive/intimidating/stressful or the like for that reason - or if there are any other negatives people have experienced.

Anything at all that might speak to associate satisfaction (mostly as regards the things mentioned above, but also including things like benefits, flexibility, diversity factors, as well as financial things - e.g. financial stability of firm, how it was in last recession, and, to a far lesser degree of importance, how they are with bonuses/other financial benefits), would be very helpful to know.

[Anonymous User]

Disclaimer: brand-new associate, so might still be overly cheery about life.

Your impression about very few associates leaving for other firms matches what I saw over my summer and what other associates have said. And frankly, I think that's the only way to get a somewhat objective sense of overall associate satisfaction. I know plenty of people who jumped ship for government or other gigs. But I haven't seen many (if any) associates leave for another firm unless they were moving to a city where Covington didn't have an office. Again, I'm new, so I welcome contradiction from anyone who's been around longer or is in a less-fun practice group.

I think the overwhelming majority of negative comments about Covington on this forum are focused on the delay at moving to $180k a few years ago. I haven't seen any pattern of negative comments about firm culture or anything like that.

[Anonymous User]

Disclaimer: brand-new associate, so might still be overly cheery about life.

Your impression about very few associates leaving for other firms matches what I saw over my summer and what other associates have said. And frankly, I think that's the only way to get a somewhat objective sense of overall associate satisfaction. I know plenty of people who jumped ship for government or other gigs. But I haven't seen many (if any) associates leave for another firm unless they were moving to a city where Covington didn't have an office. Again, I'm new, so I welcome contradiction from anyone who's been around longer or is in a less-fun practice group.

I think the overwhelming majority of negative comments about Covington on this forum are focused on the delay at moving to $180k a few years ago. I haven't seen any pattern of negative comments about firm culture or anything like that.

That is good to hear and I would say likewise that the impression I get is overwhelmingly positive.

The negatives I heard were about 180k but also the following (to be clear: this is the entirety of what I found till now in what was otherwise overwhelmingly positive - but I still want to do my due diligence on these things):

--One TLSer said they can be cheap on benefits (especially as a result of their relatively low PPP - about 1.5M). Note that I have not heard anything about them being bad with layoffs or anything like that, but that too tends to correlate with low PPP, so I wonder if anyone knows about this. How were they during the last recession? Perhaps the fact that they do lit so well tends to buoy them during tough times.

--Another TLSer said that they were told that some of the assignments were just "tests" and they were told explicitly that they would not actually be used for anything/that others had been given the same assignment and they would choose the best.

--Their billables are lower than other places that have billable requirements, but at 1950 it's still by no means easy to hit, and most of the elite firms don't have billable requirements at all... Couple that with above comment about being cheap on benefits and it creates a little concern about whether getting bonuses will be an issue/whether there will be stress.

--Counterpoint to the above is that all pro bono hours count towards billables and they are fantastic about pro bono. But note that I haven't heard anyone say that business development, recruiting, etc. counts. Would like to find out whether it does because I know at a lot of other places it does. And to the extent that I'd be involved in any recruiting etc., it is important to me to know that I am not getting no credit for it.

--Unclear if they are as good as other places when it comes to teleworking.

[Anonymous User]

That is good to hear and I would say likewise that the impression I get is overwhelmingly positive.

The negatives I heard were about 180k but also the following (to be clear: this is the entirety of what I found till now in what was otherwise overwhelmingly positive - but I still want to do my due diligence on these things):

--One TLSer said they can be cheap on benefits (especially as a result of their relatively low PPP - about 1.5M). Note that I have not heard anything about them being bad with layoffs or anything like that, but that too tends to correlate with low PPP, so I wonder if anyone knows about this. How were they during the last recession? Perhaps the fact that they do lit so well tends to buoy them during tough times.

--Another TLSer said that they were told that some of the assignments were just "tests" and they were told explicitly that they would not actually be used for anything/that others had been given the same assignment and they would choose the best.

--Their billables are lower than other places that have billable requirements, but at 1950 it's still by no means easy to hit, and most of the elite firms don't have billable requirements at all... Couple that with above comment about being cheap on benefits and it creates a little concern about whether getting bonuses will be an issue/whether there will be stress.

--Counterpoint to the above is that all pro bono hours count towards billables and they are fantastic about pro bono. But note that I haven't heard anyone say that business development, recruiting, etc. counts. Would like to find out whether it does because I know at a lot of other places it does. And to the extent that I'd be involved in any recruiting etc., it is important to me to know that I am not getting no credit for it.

--Unclear if they are as good as other places when it comes to teleworking.

I’m the Cov associate who said they’re cheap on benefits/side perks (and probably some of the other things you refer to, though not sure). To be clear, I mean this relative to the New York V15 type firms. It’s a pretty minor thing. While I obviously haven’t been there during a recession I would very strenuously argue this does *not* reflect a heightened risk of layoffs. Covington is one of the most “old school” firms around, and it’s a point of pride that they didn’t let anyone go during the crisis, and genuinely a kind of a mantra that “we don’t fire associates.” I’m sure this isn’t really true—it’s of course still a business, and I’m just a mid level, so there’s no way I can actually tell what goes on behind the scenes—but I would not be extra worried about it compared to other firms.

Other points:
—Yes, 1950 is a real minimum and it’s very possible to not get a bonus. There’s no pro bono max and it’s very true that they are absolutely fantastic about pro bono (I think we had the second most average pro bono hours in the AmLaw 100 last year, and 100% pro bono participation). No client development/other non-billable counts unless you’re on a summer committee or there’s a specific exception.
—That test thing sounds completely fake, or totally exaggerated. Slightly believable if it were a summer.
—I’m really happy at Covington and have had a really good experience doing regulatory work. However, if you’re totally set on lit and have options at the smaller, higher paying lit firms, I would probably go there instead. It’s totally possible you’re work just as much in Covington lit while making less money and getting less experience.

[Anonymous User]

That is good to hear and I would say likewise that the impression I get is overwhelmingly positive.

The negatives I heard were about 180k but also the following (to be clear: this is the entirety of what I found till now in what was otherwise overwhelmingly positive - but I still want to do my due diligence on these things):

--One TLSer said they can be cheap on benefits (especially as a result of their relatively low PPP - about 1.5M). Note that I have not heard anything about them being bad with layoffs or anything like that, but that too tends to correlate with low PPP, so I wonder if anyone knows about this. How were they during the last recession? Perhaps the fact that they do lit so well tends to buoy them during tough times.

--Another TLSer said that they were told that some of the assignments were just "tests" and they were told explicitly that they would not actually be used for anything/that others had been given the same assignment and they would choose the best.

--Their billables are lower than other places that have billable requirements, but at 1950 it's still by no means easy to hit, and most of the elite firms don't have billable requirements at all... Couple that with above comment about being cheap on benefits and it creates a little concern about whether getting bonuses will be an issue/whether there will be stress.

--Counterpoint to the above is that all pro bono hours count towards billables and they are fantastic about pro bono. But note that I haven't heard anyone say that business development, recruiting, etc. counts. Would like to find out whether it does because I know at a lot of other places it does. And to the extent that I'd be involved in any recruiting etc., it is important to me to know that I am not getting no credit for it.

--Unclear if they are as good as other places when it comes to teleworking.

I’m the Cov associate who said they’re cheap on benefits/side perks (and probably some of the other things you refer to, though not sure). To be clear, I mean this relative to the New York V15 type firms. It’s a pretty minor thing. While I obviously haven’t been there during a recession I would very strenuously argue this does *not* reflect a heightened risk of layoffs. Covington is one of the most “old school” firms around, and it’s a point of pride that they didn’t let anyone go during the crisis, and genuinely a kind of a mantra that “we don’t fire associates.” I’m sure this isn’t really true—it’s of course still a business, and I’m just a mid level, so there’s no way I can actually tell what goes on behind the scenes—but I would not be extra worried about it compared to other firms.

Other points:
—Yes, 1950 is a real minimum and it’s very possible to not get a bonus. There’s no pro bono max and it’s very true that they are absolutely fantastic about pro bono (I think we had the second most average pro bono hours in the AmLaw 100 last year, and 100% pro bono participation). No client development/other non-billable counts unless you’re on a summer committee or there’s a specific exception.
—That test thing sounds completely fake, or totally exaggerated. Slightly believable if it were a summer.
—I’m really happy at Covington and have had a really good experience doing regulatory work. However, if you’re totally set on lit and have options at the smaller, higher paying lit firms, I would probably go there instead. It’s totally possible you’re work just as much in Covington lit while making less money and getting less experience.

Thank you so much!


Can you explain what you meant by cheap on benefits? How is Covington in terms of the perks that make day to day associate life easier (technology, meal/car ride home budget, teleworking etc)? How about the perks that are more situational/long term (health insurance, 401(k), parental and vacation leave etc)?

In terms of hours - what has your daily/weekend schedule looked like on average in order to hit the 1950? How much control do you have (ie what is the assignment system like)? As for pro bono, can you pick your own projects or must you pick from a predetermined list?

[nixy]

most of the elite firms don't have billable requirements at all...

I’m by no means an expert on this, but isn’t it the case that at places without billable requirements you’re likely to be billing as much as any of the places that set requirements?

[Anonymous User]

Thank you so much! But
Can you explain what you meant by cheap on benefits? How is Covington in terms of the perks that make day to day associate life easier (technology, meal/car ride home budget, teleworking etc)? How about the perks that are more situational/long term (health insurance, 401(k), parental and vacation leave etc)?

I mean stuff like there’s no stipend to buy monitors etc to make working at home easier, and the cell phone reimbursement is only $40/month for data. Stuff like that. I think it’s pretty standard on meals and Ubers. Vacation is 4 weeks; most people take about 3, and you get the residual paid out when you leave. The firm is pretty against teleworking generally, as a policy matter. In practice it’s totally normal to work from home if you have a particular reason that day, and to go home and log back in at night if you want, but they are not progressive about regular/habitual telework. Parental leave is normal and all associates I’ve seen go out have taken the full time available. Health insurance is pretty expensive in terms of premium but I think that’s normal. No 401k match, but again that’s standard for Biglaw.

In terms of hours - what has your daily/weekend schedule looked like on average in order to hit the 1950?

Average day is probably 9:30-7:00, go home, have dinner, work for another hour. But there’s plenty of variability either way. Then I probably work 2-4 hours on the weekend, but some weekends it’s a lot more, and plenty of others I don’t work at all. But remember I’m in regulatory; lit and corporate people on average work more than me.

How much control do you have (ie what is the assignment system like)?

This varies quite a bit depending on whether you’re in lit vs a specialty group. Lit is, as far as firms go, very much on the highly structured/centralized end of the spectrum. Your preferences and (especially) the preferences of the senior lawyers are definitely taken into account, but it’s very much not a free market system. In contrast, the regulatory groups are pretty autonomous from an assignment perspective, so it varies from group to group, but is much closer to free market with a small group of people.

As for pro bono, can you pick your own projects or must you pick from a predetermined list?

There’s a predetermined list to pick from, but you can definitely bring in your own projects.

most of the elite firms don't have billable requirements at all...

I’m by no means an expert on this, but isn’t it the case that at places without billable requirements you’re likely to be billing as much as any of the places that set requirements?

Absolutely; in fact you probably on average bill more at these firms. But every large firm has a significant chunk of associates, especially juniors, who don’t hit 1900/1950/2000 hours, and obviously it makes a big difference for those associates.

Finally, you didn’t ask, but I’ll just add: I really do think Covington is a great firm. I’ve worked with ~two dozen partners/counsel, and I’ve really only had one whom I’ve had any real issues with. Basically, the firm’s rep is accurate in my experience. It’s a little more traditional and conservative, but it’s also *extremely* non-competitive. The pitch they make about the partners being so collaborative with each other is just true. The strength of the firm is the broad range of expertise, and the partners are constantly cross-selling each other. In my experience that really trickles down and it’s a pretty humane place, though the time and perfection demands can still be high.

[Anonymous User]

Thank you so much! But
Can you explain what you meant by cheap on benefits? How is Covington in terms of the perks that make day to day associate life easier (technology, meal/car ride home budget, teleworking etc)? How about the perks that are more situational/long term (health insurance, 401(k), parental and vacation leave etc)?

I mean stuff like there’s no stipend to buy monitors etc to make working at home easier, and the cell phone reimbursement is only $40/month for data. Stuff like that. I think it’s pretty standard on meals and Ubers. Vacation is 4 weeks; most people take about 3, and you get the residual paid out when you leave. The firm is pretty against teleworking generally, as a policy matter. In practice it’s totally normal to work from home if you have a particular reason that day, and to go home and log back in at night if you want, but they are not progressive about regular/habitual telework. Parental leave is normal and all associates I’ve seen go out have taken the full time available. Health insurance is pretty expensive in terms of premium but I think that’s normal. No 401k match, but again that’s standard for Biglaw.

In terms of hours - what has your daily/weekend schedule looked like on average in order to hit the 1950?

Average day is probably 9:30-7:00, go home, have dinner, work for another hour. But there’s plenty of variability either way. Then I probably work 2-4 hours on the weekend, but some weekends it’s a lot more, and plenty of others I don’t work at all. But remember I’m in regulatory; lit and corporate people on average work more than me.

How much control do you have (ie what is the assignment system like)?

This varies quite a bit depending on whether you’re in lit vs a specialty group. Lit is, as far as firms go, very much on the highly structured/centralized end of the spectrum. Your preferences and (especially) the preferences of the senior lawyers are definitely taken into account, but it’s very much not a free market system. In contrast, the regulatory groups are pretty autonomous from an assignment perspective, so it varies from group to group, but is much closer to free market with a small group of people.

As for pro bono, can you pick your own projects or must you pick from a predetermined list?

There’s a predetermined list to pick from, but you can definitely bring in your own projects.

most of the elite firms don't have billable requirements at all...

I’m by no means an expert on this, but isn’t it the case that at places without billable requirements you’re likely to be billing as much as any of the places that set requirements?

Absolutely; in fact you probably on average bill more at these firms. But every large firm has a significant chunk of associates, especially juniors, who don’t hit 1900/1950/2000 hours, and obviously it makes a big difference for those associates.

Finally, you didn’t ask, but I’ll just add: I really do think Covington is a great firm. I’ve worked with ~two dozen partners/counsel, and I’ve really only had one whom I’ve had any real issues with. Basically, the firm’s rep is accurate in my experience. It’s a little more traditional and conservative, but it’s also *extremely* non-competitive. The pitch they make about the partners being so collaborative with each other is just true. The strength of the firm is the broad range of expertise, and the partners are constantly cross-selling each other. In my experience that really trickles down and it’s a pretty humane place, though the time and perfection demands can still be high.

Thank you very much.

I am going to expose my ignorance regarding the billable hour here, and this is not about Covington anymore really, but if you are working 9:30-7:00 (minus say 1 hour for lunch which is probably generous, but plus 1 other hour at home, so it evens out) = 9.5 hours/day, x5 = 47.5/week, + avg. 3/weekend = 50.5, x 49 weeks (if we assume 3 weeks vacation)... that makes almost 2475 hours on the nose. Obviously not all of those are going to be billable, but are fully 525 hours out of 2475 being lost to interruptions/bathroom breaks/non-billable work (esp. given that pro bono is unlimited billable?)

Also, I had heard that as compared to NY, DC tends to be on a more 8:30-6:00 type schedule than a 9:30-7:00. Is that not the case - or is it person by person with no real impediment to doing it either way? I guess the other question I should ask is are there flextime / reduced hours arrangements offered to mothers (or fathers or others for that matter) and if so is it something that people feel comfortable to avail themselves of?

And on another note -- how would you evaluate the firm's diversity?

[Anonymous User]

Thank you very much.

I am going to expose my ignorance regarding the billable hour here, and this is not about Covington anymore really, but if you are working 9:30-7:00 (minus say 1 hour for lunch which is probably generous, but plus 1 other hour at home, so it evens out) = 9.5 hours/day, x5 = 47.5/week, + avg. 3/weekend = 50.5, x 49 weeks (if we assume 3 weeks vacation)... that makes almost 2475 hours on the nose. Obviously not all of those are going to be billable, but are fully 525 hours out of 2475 being lost to interruptions/bathroom breaks/non-billable work (esp. given that pro bono is unlimited billable?)

*shrug* On the one hand, I do not feel very efficient. I check Twitter, text friends, read articles throughout the day, call another associate about a 1 minute billable thing and end up talking for 15 minutes about an annoying client or firm gossip or something, etc. Honestly not sure where the hours go some days. So definitely possible to be more efficient.

On the other hand, you certainly can’t just sign off for the day at 6 or 7 consistently. You’re expected to reply to emails. And lots of people are still in the office when I leave and online later in the night. So I doubt my schedule is unusually heavy even for non-high billers.

Also, I had heard that as compared to NY, DC tends to be on a more 8:30-6:00 type schedule than a 9:30-7:00. Is that not the case - or is it person by person with no real impediment to doing it either way?

I had heard this too before I started but it’s not really a thing ime. Strong correlation between age of the lawyer and how early they get in (the real old timers often get in at like but certainly no one expects you to be online before 9 and really not before 9:30. Plenty of associates arrive before 9, but also plenty don’t get in until 10. It’s mostly up to you unless you have a meeting/call.

I guess the other question I should ask is are there flextime / reduced hours arrangements offered to mothers (or fathers or others for that matter) and if so is it something that people feel comfortable to avail themselves of?

Yeah there are. It’s common at least for new mothers to go on an 80% or so schedule for some period of time. Though if you want to keep it to a true 80% you need to advocate for it, as it’s easy for the hours to pile up. I don’t know anyone who’s gone on that schedule permanently, though I expect it’s possible for valued people.

And on another note -- how would you evaluate the firm's diversity?

I don’t have a great ability to evaluate this, unfortunately. I think the numbers are pretty “good” (relative to biglaw at least), and women certainly make up a very large chunk of the younger partnership. But I had at least one POC friend at the firm—now left the law—who was very unhappy with the mentorship for diverse people, and felt that they more often “fell through the cracks” than white associates.

[Anonymous User]

Thank you very much.

I am going to expose my ignorance regarding the billable hour here, and this is not about Covington anymore really, but if you are working 9:30-7:00 (minus say 1 hour for lunch which is probably generous, but plus 1 other hour at home, so it evens out) = 9.5 hours/day, x5 = 47.5/week, + avg. 3/weekend = 50.5, x 49 weeks (if we assume 3 weeks vacation)... that makes almost 2475 hours on the nose. Obviously not all of those are going to be billable, but are fully 525 hours out of 2475 being lost to interruptions/bathroom breaks/non-billable work (esp. given that pro bono is unlimited billable?)

*shrug* On the one hand, I do not feel very efficient. I check Twitter, text friends, read articles throughout the day, call another associate about a 1 minute billable thing and end up talking for 15 minutes about an annoying client or firm gossip or something, etc. Honestly not sure where the hours go some days. So definitely possible to be more efficient.

On the other hand, you certainly can’t just sign off for the day at 6 or 7 consistently. You’re expected to reply to emails. And lots of people are still in the office when I leave and online later in the night. So I doubt my schedule is unusually heavy even for non-high billers.

Also, I had heard that as compared to NY, DC tends to be on a more 8:30-6:00 type schedule than a 9:30-7:00. Is that not the case - or is it person by person with no real impediment to doing it either way?

I had heard this too before I started but it’s not really a thing ime. Strong correlation between age of the lawyer and how early they get in (the real old timers often get in at like but certainly no one expects you to be online before 9 and really not before 9:30. Plenty of associates arrive before 9, but also plenty don’t get in until 10. It’s mostly up to you unless you have a meeting/call.

I guess the other question I should ask is are there flextime / reduced hours arrangements offered to mothers (or fathers or others for that matter) and if so is it something that people feel comfortable to avail themselves of?

Yeah there are. It’s common at least for new mothers to go on an 80% or so schedule for some period of time. Though if you want to keep it to a true 80% you need to advocate for it, as it’s easy for the hours to pile up. I don’t know anyone who’s gone on that schedule permanently, though I expect it’s possible for valued people.

And on another note -- how would you evaluate the firm's diversity?

I don’t have a great ability to evaluate this, unfortunately. I think the numbers are pretty “good” (relative to biglaw at least), and women certainly make up a very large chunk of the younger partnership. But I had at least one POC friend at the firm—now left the law—who was very unhappy with the mentorship for diverse people, and felt that they more often “fell through the cracks” than white associates.

Thank you so much! This has been fantastically helpful.

Anything else I should know by way of things you really like/would ideally change about Covington? Especially anything I may not even realize is a factor at this point in the decision process, but might actually impact my day to day (or overall) experience in a big firm?

[Anonymous User]

Anyone with an offer have an idea of how long the summer is?

[Anonymous User]

10 weeks with an 8 week minimum commitment.