Recruiting questions specific to SDNY/EDNY goal Forum

[nyc2020]

Hi everyone, I start 1L in a few weeks at a T10 school. I am older than most students (late 20s) and have a prior Ivy League professional degree (MPP/MBA/MD). I am going to law school purely to chase my dream of becoming a federal prosecutor in NYC, either at SDNY or EDNY. (And, yes, I know well that my odds are very slim, but I need to chase this dream. If I fall short, that's okay - but I don't want to live with the regret of not having done my best.)

Given that guidelines on the 1L recruiting timeline seem to have been abolished, I am beginning to think about and prepare for my 1L summer recruiting earlier than I otherwise would have. We can talk separately about how sad and problematic the new guidelines are, but that's an issue out of my hands. In about 8-12 weeks, I anticipate sending out applications so that I'm within the first wave of applications reviewed. Below is a list of questions I have that, to my knowledge, haven't been answered elsewhere.

(To keep it easy, I've numbered the questions and asked them in a simple yes/no format. Of course, I'd love you to elaborate beyond yes/no if you can. And, if you know the answer to some of the questions and not others, please free to answer the question numbers you have enough background to answer.)

What 1L summer opportunities to pursue

1. If I'm interested in being an AUSA in SDNY/EDNY, I should apply only to USAO offices (anywhere) or biglaw firms in NYC. Correct?
2. I should NOT apply to litigation boutiques in NYC because they do not have 1L summer internships available. Correct?
3. Given that I want to end up at SDNY/EDNY one day, I should take a summer offer at SDNY or EDNY over any other summer 1L offer from biglaw. Correct?
4. I should choose an offer from an NYC biglaw firm with a great white collar litigation practice over USAO summer offers from non-SDNY/EDNY USAO offices. Correct?
5. A clerkship with an SDNY or EDNY judge should be an absolute last-ditch safety option to consider in the spring. Correct?
6. A 1L summer in biglaw would be neutral or helpful when applying to USAO offices for my 2L summer. Correct?

Networking

7. I should network with my law school's alumni both at NYC biglaw firms and at SDNY and EDNY in September and October. Correct?
8. With alumni in biglaw, I should emphasize my interest in the white collar criminal defense practice in particular. Correct?
9. With alumni at biglaw, it is okay (and possibly helpful) to discuss my interest in becoming a federal prosecutor. Correct?

Applications

10. I should send out applications to USAO offices and NYC biglaw firms in late October or early November. Correct?
11. If I send 50 applications to USAO offices and NYC biglaw firms, I should - assuming good interview skills - receive a couple summer offers. Correct?
12. Because 1L summer recruiting will likely start earlier this year, 1L fall grades are going to be a non-factor in where I end up next summer. Correct?
13. I should send out applications to USAO offices and NYC biglaw firms I'm not super excited about because there are no future negative repercussions for a solid (but not great) 1L summer position. Correct?

Thank you in advance!

[Anonymous User]

I can’t speak super specifically to SDNY/EDNY, but I have some experience with AUSA hiring from working in other offices, and I think you’re slightly overthinking this. I think it will be of great help to you to intern with a USAO at some point during law school. It doesn’t have to be this summer. It also doesn’t have to be SDNY/EDNY, although that’s certainly not a bad idea. I think I’ve heard that the experience of interning for SDNY isn’t that great (but this is just an anecdote), so while you’d get the chance ideally to connect with prosecutors there, you might not get a lot of experience that would help distinguish you. I also have the impression SDNY/EDNY take a lot of interns and they’re obviously not going to hire them all, so while it’s a good box to check it’s not that the experience of being in SDNY/EDNY specifically will make a big difference over any other USAO.

You reference applying to USAOs for your 2L summer. I would recommend not doing that. Generally, you are not going to get hired as a AUSA straight out of law school. SDNY does usually participate in the DOJ honors program, informally, but informal components don’t necessarily make any hires. If they do hire, it will be 1-2 people coming off of clerkships (a clerkship is required). AFAIK, EDNY doesn’t hire out of law school at all. Point being, you should use your 2L summer to get you the job that will make you competitive to apply to USAOs down the line, probably NYC biglaw or boutique litigation. Multiple USAO internships aren’t going to really help you more than one. And if you do want to use biglaw as a path to USAO, you really need to get biglaw locked down your 2L summer.

Re: specific questions I feel qualified to answer:

1) those are good options, but really any legal job is going to be fine for your 1L summer.

3) no, if you got a biglaw gig for 1L summer that’s fine. You can intern for a USAO at any point over your time in law school, and a biglaw gig will pay you! But if you wanted to do the SDNY/EDNY instead of biglaw that’s fine. But I don’t think it’s necessary.

4) no. USAO experience anywhere is still helpful and NYC white collar litigation isn’t somehow better than non-NYC USAOs. But such biglaw experience would be great too if you can get it.

(So re: 3&4 - those are all decent options with pros and cons. There isn’t such a strict hierarchy as you’re implying.)

5) no, I think this would be a decent summer option as well. For one thing, you will likely need to clerk to be competitive. Doing an internship with a SDNY/EDNY judge isn’t going to guarantee you anything for the future, but a judicial internship is helpful for knowing a little bit about chambers when you apply for clerkships. So again, it’s another option, not a distant last place.

11) I think you’ll certainly find a USAO willing to take you. I think biglaw 1L SAs in NY are actually much more difficult - not that you wouldn’t be qualified, but they’re just not that plentiful (though a better shot if you can go through diversity programs). Lots of people don’t get 1L SAs.

I think 7,8, and 9 are correct, but I can’t really speak to timing (didn’t even know the guidelines for 1L recruiting has changed).

[Anonymous User]

1. Working in NYC would help you establish a track record of being interested in NYC, but
2. I would certainly reach out to the specific litigation boutiques to ask if they have 1L positions available; that can't hurt. Generally they won't, but asking politely will never be a problem.
3. Yes.
4. I don't think either option would be a bad choice, but if you're facing this decision at some point in the fall/spring, your career office should be able to help advise.
5. These clerkships are highly competitive, not a "last-ditch safety option," but yes, they would be good 1L summer options given your goal.
6. This would be neutral to moderately helpful (suggests that you have good grades), but so would working at a DA's office.
7. Early fall is a good time to start networking, yes.
8. White collar is a good practice area to demonstrate interest in given your goals, but most attorneys don't expect 1Ls (certainly not brand new 1Ls) to have exact expectations of which practice area they're interested in (I have gotten the sense that many practicing attorneys can even find it a little naive). But you should definitely express interest and ask more about it.
9. Yes, this is fine. Many firms are proud of their revolving door with USAO offices and use it as a selling point. You should still emphasize that you're interested in doing biglaw first for a few years and getting firm training, and this is a goal for further into your career.
10. If your school isn't requiring you to wait until December 1, then yes, send out applications as soon as you can. Some schools may still impose that requirement, though, so check with your career office first.
11. Maybe, maybe not. These are the most competitive 1L positions, and you seem to be underestimating how difficult it is to get them, even coming from a T10. If you're non-diverse, a firm position is going to be even harder because generally the 1L positions are for diverse candidates.
12. Not correct. Unless you're coming from HYS (and maybe even then), firms are going to want to see your fall grades before making a decision. You may get a CB before that so they can make a decision as soon as they see your grades, but it is very unlikely that you'll get a firm or USAO position without getting good fall grades. Do not blow off the fall semester. And don't let job apps distract you from reading/finals studying in any way.
13. Undoubtedly yes. You are underestimating how difficult USAO and NYC biglaw positions are to get as a 1L. Apply everywhere you would ever consider working. I am also at a T10 and know plenty of people with good grades who sent out 100+ job apps and only got a few interviews. Apply and get the offers first, and then make a decision.

[soft blue]

CLS rising 2L with a few friends who are going down your path, here are their thoughts:

1: NYAG is also a very good idea, along with SEC enforcement. Biglaw firms are hard to get without excellent grades (at CLS, I would say that you would need a >A- average in your first semester, which is about the top 15%), but definitely not impossible.
2: I mean, you should apply broadly. You lose nothing by applying. But, probably the elite ones (Susman, Boies) will not. However, smaller shops (there are a lot of excellent small white collar or securities practices) may have openings.
3: Won't make a huge difference unless you hit it off with someone super senior given the amount of turnover in the office between your 1L summer and when you'll be applying.
4: Yes.
5: It won't work that way -- while they are easy to get, many schools require applicants to accept an internship offer from a federal judge should they receive one. If you apply late, they will be filled. If you apply early, you may have to take it. (NB that schools take this seriously for clerkship relationship reasons).
6: Helpful, but not nearly as helpful as great grades. (And only if you did white collar/criminal stuff).
7: Yes.
8: Yes.
9: Yes, many firms are known as launching points for AUSAs / places where AUSAs often land.
10: USAO should go out the day NALP lets you send it. NYC biglaw won't care until you have grades in hand.
11: You will get a USAO offer if you are 1.) indifferent between crim/civil and 2.) apply to a lower-prestige one (i.e. not SDNY, EDNY, DDC, etc). For what it's worth, I know many people who had great USAO experiences in their non-prestigious home districts (EDMI, NDFL, DNH). Your biglaw odds are entirely dependent on your grades.
12: For many places, this is true. That's not true for biglaw.
13: A USAO / NYC biglaw position as a 1L is more than solid, and there are no negative repercussions whatsoever. But also, nobody super cares about your 1L summer -- many people fuck around and land just fine.

[lawfan2012]

I agree with other posters that you may be thinking about things from the wrong direction.

By far the most common route to being an AUSA in SDNY or EDNY today is working in biglaw or a boutique, likely with a strong focus on white collar defense. If you work with a partner who will go to bat for you who has good relationships in those offices, that’s ideal. A clerkship or two is the norm.

To get to that point, you should focus on 1L grades. Your 1L job is really secondary. You may also want to consider applying for post-graduation clerkships in law school. Working at a biglaw firm 2L summer would be the most typical path. If you join biglaw straight out of law school, consider applying for clerkships in your first 2-3 years out.

One way to get a sense of the path that is typically followed is to look at the LinkedIn profiles of people who have recently joined those offices. There is some variation but the path I’ve outlined is BY FAR the norm. Following the path is no guarantee you will make it to these offices—luck is very much involved as well. But what your 1L summer job was is basically not a factor in this path.

Good luck.

[nyc2020]

Thank you all for your thoughtful responses. Grateful to each of you for the guidance.