Another Reason for Biglaws Shittiness - Lack of any Sense of Achievement? Forum

[Anonymous User]

I'm nearing the end of my first year in biglaw and have been pretty miserable. I've been trying to figure out exactly why I hate it so much and think I've finally figured it out - there's very little sense of achievement on the job, and little to feel proud of.

I've been working crazy hours, but don't think that's the real problem. The 70-80 hour weeks actually aren't as terrible as I thought they would be - after a certain point you start to feel numb towards the hours and the time sort of just flies by. I also really like the people I work with. There aren't any screamers, people say 'thank you,' and they're respectful of personal commitments and vacation time. On this front I actually think I've been very lucky and likely have had a better experience than most. Given these facts, I've had trouble figuring out exactly why I feel so discontent.

I realized recently, after bragging at length to my fiance about old personal achievements, that the problem may be the lack of any recent accomplishments to feel proud of. In highschool and college, I did competitive debate. You could relish and take pride in each win. In lawschool, I did moot court, which provided a similar sense of accomplishment. And throughout all this schooling, good grades felt like a sort of success too.

Now, in biglaw, there's never an opportunity to feel proud of anything - regardless of the amount of effort you put in an assignment. Doc review? There's no way to ace doc review. Even if you find a smoking gun, it's not a success - the expectation is that you'd find it if it existed. Legal research? Similar to doc review - accurately articulating the law is not something to be proud of, it's the expectation. Deposition kits? These are basically just doc review with a theme. Motion drafting? Motions go through so many rounds of edits by seniors and partners that by the end you're lucky to have contributed a single sentence to the final product.

Sure, you can take some pride in writing something particularly well and working particularly diligently, but at the end of the day the most that's going to get you is an email saying "Thank you, this is great!" from a senior associate. I'm starting to feel like the most you can ever hope to achieve in biglaw is a "good reputation." I'm sure that's enough motivation for some, but I want something more tangible.

Anyone else feel similarly? I'm just a first year, so it might change, but it's not looking promising.

[64Fl]

This isn't school anymore where, and there aren't any more games to play that award prizes like debate or moot court. If you work hard and long enough (and do a couple of other things), you might get recognized as a "rising star" or something like that by a legal publication/ranking, but that's about it.

I hate to say it, but this is just kind of how the working world is. I can't think of another profession, beyond professional athletics, where there are constant awards to strive for. I guess you could be an author and strive for a Nobel or Booker or something like that, but those are once in a lifetime achievements for a very small subset of the profession. The same goes with journalists and Pulitzers or architects and the Pritzker prize. In the corporate context, your company beating out a rival company for more market share or a specific demographic would be the equivalent of winning a debate, but that's much less tangible and much more delayed gratification. It's also an achievement that can fade as your company loses market share or the demographic moves on, while your debate win is permanent.

That is all to say that, you're kind of shit out of luck. I'd recommend adjusting your mindset or picking up a hobby where you can feel that kind of accomplishment, like coaching a youth team in your favorite sport, participating in bar trivia, or getting into something else competitive that has winners and losers.

[acr]

This isn't school anymore where, and there aren't any more games to play that award prizes like debate or moot court. If you work hard and long enough (and do a couple of other things), you might get recognized as a "rising star" or something like that by a legal publication/ranking, but that's about it.

I hate to say it, but this is just kind of how the working world is. I can't think of another profession, beyond professional athletics, where there are constant awards to strive for. I guess you could be an author and strive for a Nobel or Booker or something like that, but those are once in a lifetime achievements for a very small subset of the profession. The same goes with journalists and Pulitzers or architects and the Pritzker prize. In the corporate context, your company beating out a rival company for more market share or a specific demographic would be the equivalent of winning a debate, but that's much less tangible and much more delayed gratification. It's also an achievement that can fade as your company loses market share or the demographic moves on, while your debate win is permanent.

That is all to say that, you're kind of shit out of luck. I'd recommend adjusting your mindset or picking up a hobby where you can feel that kind of accomplishment, like coaching a youth team in your favorite sport, participating in bar trivia, or getting into something else competitive that has winners and losers.

This is the problem with big law. "Immersing" in the legal profession (i.e. having a 70-80 hour per week firm job, like OP) doesn't really allow someone to pursue the hobbies/activities you're describing. Coaching a youth team is a bigger time commitment than you think: practices a few times per week, games on the weekends, travel, dealing with parents and team events, etc. I know that you're just using youth coaching as one possible example, but the point is that cultivating meaningful hobbies takes time and focus. Most people come home from a day of big law exhausted and just want to sleep, devoid of the energy required to drive across town to coach a youth team or work on a novel/blog or whatever.

OP, there's lots of problems with big law, the substance of the work being one of them (especially corporate/transactional work). Some people can tolerate the nature of the work (very few seem to enjoy it), but many don't derive any satisfaction from big law. People stay in big law because the legal profession strings you along that the "great thing" is coming in the future, and all the pain and hours and stress will be worth it, but it never actually arrives. Personally, I think you're better off working a job with a modest salary and benefits, where you enjoy (or at least tolerate) the substance of the work, where your life and mental health aren't compromised. Screw the "riches" of big law. But that's just me

[lawfan2012]

I don’t think that the lack of a sense of achievement is a problem with law generally. I get how, as a junior, you may not feel ownership of enough of a project like a brief to feel pride or achievement in good work. But absolutely you should feel achievement if you find the important docs in a doc review—trust me, NOT everyone does that. I absolutely feel that sense of accomplishment from finding good documents, crafting a strong piece of writing, getting good deposition testimony from a witness, etc.

It sounds like one thing that may be holding you back in feeling that type of satisfaction is expecting the sense of accomplishment to be given to you by other people (you mentioned grades, and winning competitions where other people are judging). I do agree that generally there is less of that type of “recognition” once you get out of school. I think it is important to cultivate that sense of accomplishment inside yourself rather than looking for people to give it to you. You’ll be a happier person generally if you can do that I think.

[nixy]

It sounds like one thing that may be holding you back in feeling that type of satisfaction is expecting the sense of accomplishment to be given to you by other people (you mentioned grades, and winning competitions where other people are judging). I do agree that generally there is less of that type of “recognition” once you get out of school. I think it is important to cultivate that sense of accomplishment inside yourself rather than looking for people to give it to you. You’ll be a happier person generally if you can do that I think.

I agree with this entirely. At some point your sense of self worth has to come from yourself and not what other people say/do.

(That said...what are your long term goals? Do you want to stay in biglaw long term and aim for partner? Or do you want to move into something else? If you can identify that goal and steps along the way, accomplishing the steps can contribute to a sense of achievement.)

[rahulg91]

I guess I’m confused. It’s a job, they pay you to render legal services. What “sense of achievement” do you want? That’s what the money is for?!

[acr]

It sounds like one thing that may be holding you back in feeling that type of satisfaction is expecting the sense of accomplishment to be given to you by other people (you mentioned grades, and winning competitions where other people are judging). I do agree that generally there is less of that type of “recognition” once you get out of school. I think it is important to cultivate that sense of accomplishment inside yourself rather than looking for people to give it to you. You’ll be a happier person generally if you can do that I think.

I agree with this entirely. At some point your sense of self worth has to come from yourself and not what other people say/do.

(That said...what are your long term goals? Do you want to stay in biglaw long term and aim for partner? Or do you want to move into something else? If you can identify that goal and steps along the way, accomplishing the steps can contribute to a sense of achievement.)

I disagree that this is a solution to OP's unhappiness in big law. Satisfaction and genuine fulfillment comes in the present, in the sense of achievement or enjoyment in what you're doing now. If OP doesn't enjoy doing the work, then the goal of becoming partner (which would arguably require OP to immerse himself more into what's making him unhappy), won't solve the issue.

[lawfan2012]

I disagree that this is a solution to OP's unhappiness in big law. Satisfaction and genuine fulfillment comes in the present, in the sense of achievement or enjoyment in what you're doing now. If OP doesn't enjoy doing the work, then the goal of becoming partner (which would arguably require OP to immerse himself more into what's making him unhappy), won't solve the issue.

OP didn’t say anything one way or another about enjoying the work. Obviously if the work isn’t enjoyable that’s a separate issue. But if OP enjoys or doesn’t mind the work and the only thing making OP miserable is lacking a sense of accomplishment (as the initial post seemed to indicate) OP should focus on finding that sense of accomplishment internally.

There is also the question of “purpose,” which a couple of posters have mentioned but OP did not. Obviously if someone feels that biglaw litigation is ultimately meaningless it might be hard to feel a sense of achievement no matter how well you do the work. But again, that’s not what OP indicated in his or her original post.

[Mr. December]

If you want a sense of "winning," become a prosecutor or criminal defense attorney. In my experience (I was in biglaw before becoming an ADA), you feel a sense of achievement when you win a motion hearing or jury trial.

[nixy]

It sounds like one thing that may be holding you back in feeling that type of satisfaction is expecting the sense of accomplishment to be given to you by other people (you mentioned grades, and winning competitions where other people are judging). I do agree that generally there is less of that type of “recognition” once you get out of school. I think it is important to cultivate that sense of accomplishment inside yourself rather than looking for people to give it to you. You’ll be a happier person generally if you can do that I think.

I agree with this entirely. At some point your sense of self worth has to come from yourself and not what other people say/do.

(That said...what are your long term goals? Do you want to stay in biglaw long term and aim for partner? Or do you want to move into something else? If you can identify that goal and steps along the way, accomplishing the steps can contribute to a sense of achievement.)

I disagree that this is a solution to OP's unhappiness in big law. Satisfaction and genuine fulfillment comes in the present, in the sense of achievement or enjoyment in what you're doing now. If OP doesn't enjoy doing the work, then the goal of becoming partner (which would arguably require OP to immerse himself more into what's making him unhappy), won't solve the issue.

That's fair, but I meant this more as broadening the question (I posited becoming partner as just one option among other possibilities and meant to suggest that if OP had been aiming for partner, they might want to rethink that). If OP doesn't enjoy biglaw work, thinking about what they would enjoy/what they want to do in the future and working toward it may give them satisfaction and provide a sense of achievement they don't currently have and otherwise won't have until/unless they change jobs.

But I think we agree more than we disagree. Frankly the OP doesn't say they don't enjoy the work, they say they don't get any sense of accomplishment from it. This makes it sound like their measure for enjoyment is purely achievement/outside praise, which I don't think is self-sustaining.

[Anonymous User]

This isn't school anymore where, and there aren't any more games to play that award prizes like debate or moot court. If you work hard and long enough (and do a couple of other things), you might get recognized as a "rising star" or something like that by a legal publication/ranking, but that's about it.

I hate to say it, but this is just kind of how the working world is. I can't think of another profession, beyond professional athletics, where there are constant awards to strive for. I guess you could be an author and strive for a Nobel or Booker or something like that, but those are once in a lifetime achievements for a very small subset of the profession. The same goes with journalists and Pulitzers or architects and the Pritzker prize. In the corporate context, your company beating out a rival company for more market share or a specific demographic would be the equivalent of winning a debate, but that's much less tangible and much more delayed gratification. It's also an achievement that can fade as your company loses market share or the demographic moves on, while your debate win is permanent.

That is all to say that, you're kind of shit out of luck. I'd recommend adjusting your mindset or picking up a hobby where you can feel that kind of accomplishment, like coaching a youth team in your favorite sport, participating in bar trivia, or getting into something else competitive that has winners and losers.

OP here - trophies and grades aren't really what I had in mind (although I can see how you got that from the examples I used). A better example is that I used to woodwork, and would derive accomplishment from finishing a project and using the product. I think the sense of achievement can come from anything that I would have ownership over, and would lead to some tangible result. In the legal field, I think this might come from writing a motion that's granted, taking a deposition that elicits good testimony, or formulating a novel argument that's used in the case.

The problem is that I don't see this level of ownership over something substantive occurring until you're pretty senior at the firm. Though I have seen mid-levels take small depositions, so maybe that's something to look forward to.

[Anonymous User]

It sounds like one thing that may be holding you back in feeling that type of satisfaction is expecting the sense of accomplishment to be given to you by other people (you mentioned grades, and winning competitions where other people are judging). I do agree that generally there is less of that type of “recognition” once you get out of school. I think it is important to cultivate that sense of accomplishment inside yourself rather than looking for people to give it to you. You’ll be a happier person generally if you can do that I think.

I agree with this entirely. At some point your sense of self worth has to come from yourself and not what other people say/do.

(That said...what are your long term goals? Do you want to stay in biglaw long term and aim for partner? Or do you want to move into something else? If you can identify that goal and steps along the way, accomplishing the steps can contribute to a sense of achievement.)

I disagree that this is a solution to OP's unhappiness in big law. Satisfaction and genuine fulfillment comes in the present, in the sense of achievement or enjoyment in what you're doing now. If OP doesn't enjoy doing the work, then the goal of becoming partner (which would arguably require OP to immerse himself more into what's making him unhappy), won't solve the issue.

That's fair, but I meant this more as broadening the question (I posited becoming partner as just one option among other possibilities and meant to suggest that if OP had been aiming for partner, they might want to rethink that). If OP doesn't enjoy biglaw work, thinking about what they would enjoy/what they want to do in the future and working toward it may give them satisfaction and provide a sense of achievement they don't currently have and otherwise won't have until/unless they change jobs.

But I think we agree more than we disagree. Frankly the OP doesn't say they don't enjoy the work, they say they don't get any sense of accomplishment from it. This makes it sound like their measure for enjoyment is purely achievement/outside praise, which I don't think is self-sustaining.

OP here - I don't hate the work, I'm just extremely bored by it. At the end of the day, what I really enjoy is the feeling that I'm working towards a "win." By win, I don't necessarily mean awards and outside praise - I'm happy with anything I can personally chalk up as a legitimate achievement. The problem is that there's so little opportunity to take ownership over something substantive that I don't see how an associate would get this feeling in biglaw. The best example of something would feel amazing to me in the legal profession is writing a motion that's granted. But from my experience so far, an associate will never have total ownership over a motion. Even the senior associate's drafts are so heavily edited by the partners that at the end of the day, it's barely their work.

My long term goal is to start a solo practice, ideally with a focus on criminal defense. I'm pretty confident this would be fulfilling for me, but I'm a pretty long ways out from this - I have loans I need to pay off, and money I need to save first. I never intended to stay in biglaw long term, and was prepared to handle the long hours, high stress, and tough personalities for a few years. What I wasn't expecting was total and utter lack of purpose.

Note, when I say words like purpose & fulfillment, I'm not really speaking from an ideological perspective. I'm not really bothered by the subject matter or social consequences of the work (though I probably should be).

[jkpolk]

Alienation is a real thing, it's not specific to big law. If you have to work for living, it's easy to fall into the "life sucks and then you die" mentality. A few thoughts from having been there before:

1. A lot of this may be that you're junior. Be patient, big law will get better on the personal-responsibility/difficulty front (with corresponding stress and hours). If you can find something stupid to take your mind off things and give you some low-dose achievement (video games/books/instruments/etc.), do it. You probably wont have the time/energy to get good from scratch, but a very casual hobby can still be rewarding. If you're the type of person who's never had a casual hobby, highly recommend.

2. Especially for juniors, you have to think of success as team success. Take my word for it, you CAN change your mindset consciously to adopt this view. You're part of a team, it's good when the team does well, it's bad when it does poorly. Teams generally celebrate when it goes well (close deals, win cases, etc.) In corporate, you keep deal toys and closing sets (at least partially) to reflect what your team has achieved. Litigators keep trophies as well. As you get more senior, you'll have some more individualized, tangible things that can be rewarding - successful pitches, big bills, business-generation bonuses, a creative argument you made, etc. and you'll be able to celebrate your career/ability to stay in the game. Similar to #1, the long view is critical, and patience is a highly, highly undervalued trait.

3. Keep happy emails you get. "Thanks - this is great!" from a senior may not be enough, but if you get an email from a client or partner thanking you for meaningful work or emails celebrating the end of a case/deal, save those. Look at them whenever you need it. Everyone I know who has made it a while has a folder like that, it really is nice to have when things get dark.

4. It's possible this is (partially) culture at your law firm. Some shops are more sterile (more formal, less camaraderie) and some shops are more rah rah (people are more willing to be themselves/celebrate and cut loose with coworkers/identify personally with the firm) and some are in between. As a junior, before you have actual long-term working relationships with people, it can be difficult to penetrate the more sterile type of firm. This will also get better with time.

One last thing, no one else gives a fuck about your achievements. Even Tom Brady will die alone, as will we all. Coming to terms with that and living in your own skin may make for a happier existence.

[wwwcol]

I don’t think that the lack of a sense of achievement is a problem with law generally. I get how, as a junior, you may not feel ownership of enough of a project like a brief to feel pride or achievement in good work. But absolutely you should feel achievement if you find the important docs in a doc review—trust me, NOT everyone does that. I absolutely feel that sense of accomplishment from finding good documents, crafting a strong piece of writing, getting good deposition testimony from a witness, etc.

It sounds like one thing that may be holding you back in feeling that type of satisfaction is expecting the sense of accomplishment to be given to you by other people (you mentioned grades, and winning competitions where other people are judging). I do agree that generally there is less of that type of “recognition” once you get out of school. I think it is important to cultivate that sense of accomplishment inside yourself rather than looking for people to give it to you. You’ll be a happier person generally if you can do that I think.

this is a good post

OP, if people say “good job” and come back to you for work, you should take pride in that. Not everybody gets that

[s1m4]

I really feel like this various by practice group; im in emerging companies in corporate and definitely feel a solid sense of achievement when I bring on a new client and eventually help them close a funding round and teach them the ins & outs of the legal side of running a tech company. Have built some good relationships and feel good day to day coming to work and helping them out (though of course its still a slog at times).

[Anonymous User]

I'm a junior litigation partner, and I think that OPs' problem will be addressed if he or she is willing to get through the worst of the dues-paying years. Here are examples of "achievements" or compliments I've had in the senior associate/junior partner years that might meet OP's need to feel ownership over an achievement:

Winning trials through my firm's program for associates to spend time at the DA's or PD's office
Major wins at the firm where I was (and was recognized to be) a key driver of the success - dispositive motions, evidentiary hearings in paid matters, etc.
Handling key depositions and extracting admissions (if taking) or prepping a witness in a manner that led to a very successful defense
Praise directed at me from key senior partners or clients and being shared with the top partners in management, with me looped in
Handling arguments successfully, especially at a new level for the first time (e.g., my first federal court of appeals argument in a non-pro bono case)
Being a significant reason that we landed a major pitch with a new client
Being a significant reason that we received a major new piece of business from an existing client who makes it known they were pleased with the prior work
And obviously, making partner

If OP doesn't want to pay the same dues that all of the rest of us have had to pay, then that's ultimately their choice. If they are willing to stick it out, here's one piece of advice: you will get to the type of moments I've described above if you work hard, work diligently, are capable, and are motivated to persevere until you reach the moments where you get to celebrate an achievement that you can truly own. Until then, pay attention to - and celebrate yourself - how much more you've mastered each year. Even on a month to month basis, I'm still amazed at how much I've learned and how much more capable I am at the end of the month than the start. If you tune into that, you'll probably start to feel a sense of achievement even as a junior/mid associate, before the banner moments start coming. And it might be enough to get you through to the banner moments.

Also, keep in mind that if you enjoy working on cases that have the complexity of complex biglaw litigation matters, you will also learn to celebrate and support the team that helped you get there - even the first-chair trial lawyer at the top of the pleading doesn't get to "own" wins in the sense of claiming to have gotten there by him or herself. No solo practitioner has the resources and hours in the day to achieve the results for our clients that we push to achieve. So don't focus too much on sole ownership - but shared ownership where you are recognized to be a key driver of the success is absolutely achievable in biglaw, and when you are further up the food chain, you will appreciate all of the support from associates in the position you are in right now, which frees you up to do the desirable, substantive work.

[Anonymous User]

I'm a junior litigation partner, and I think that OPs' problem will be addressed if he or she is willing to get through the worst of the dues-paying years. Here are examples of "achievements" or compliments I've had in the senior associate/junior partner years that might meet OP's need to feel ownership over an achievement:

Winning trials through my firm's program for associates to spend time at the DA's or PD's office
Major wins at the firm where I was (and was recognized to be) a key driver of the success - dispositive motions, evidentiary hearings in paid matters, etc.
Handling key depositions and extracting admissions (if taking) or prepping a witness in a manner that led to a very successful defense
Praise directed at me from key senior partners or clients and being shared with the top partners in management, with me looped in
Handling arguments successfully, especially at a new level for the first time (e.g., my first federal court of appeals argument in a non-pro bono case)
Being a significant reason that we landed a major pitch with a new client
Being a significant reason that we received a major new piece of business from an existing client who makes it known they were pleased with the prior work
And obviously, making partner

If OP doesn't want to pay the same dues that all of the rest of us have had to pay, then that's ultimately their choice. If they are willing to stick it out, here's one piece of advice: you will get to the type of moments I've described above if you work hard, work diligently, are capable, and are motivated to persevere until you reach the moments where you get to celebrate an achievement that you can truly own. Until then, pay attention to - and celebrate yourself - how much more you've mastered each year. Even on a month to month basis, I'm still amazed at how much I've learned and how much more capable I am at the end of the month than the start. If you tune into that, you'll probably start to feel a sense of achievement even as a junior/mid associate, before the banner moments start coming. And it might be enough to get you through to the banner moments.

Also, keep in mind that if you enjoy working on cases that have the complexity of complex biglaw litigation matters, you will also learn to celebrate and support the team that helped you get there - even the first-chair trial lawyer at the top of the pleading doesn't get to "own" wins in the sense of claiming to have gotten there by him or herself. No solo practitioner has the resources and hours in the day to achieve the results for our clients that we push to achieve. So don't focus too much on sole ownership - but shared ownership where you are recognized to be a key driver of the success is absolutely achievable in biglaw, and when you are further up the food chain, you will appreciate all of the support from associates in the position you are in right now, which frees you up to do the desirable, substantive work.

OP here. This is really helpful, and the experiences you describe are exactly the sort of thing I'm looking for. Though it is a bit disappointing that there's so little in the junior / mid-level years that affords that sense of achievement / ownership. I don't see myself in biglaw long-term, so by the time I reach that stage I'll likely be looking to do something else.

Are you part of a large firm? I'm wondering if it might be different at a smaller firm.

[CHEESEISLYFE]

Transactional Biglaw is shitty because:

1. The hours are horrendous and it takes over your life;
2. The hours are unpredictable. You can't make plans and if you do they get cancelled;
3. You don't have enough downtime;
4. You're constantly stressed;
5. The work isn't intellectually stimulating and doesn't really involve your brain;
6. But you need excruciating attention to detail, and need to be super diligent, super hard working for crazy hours on little sleep; and
7. You are just a condom - carrying out the will of others, making things a bit safer without getting any upside from the transaction.

It's a pure devil's pact of selling your soul / selling the best years of your life for a little bit more money.

[BlackAndOrange84]

OP here. This is really helpful, and the experiences you describe are exactly the sort of thing I'm looking for. Though it is a bit disappointing that there's so little in the junior / mid-level years that affords that sense of achievement / ownership. I don't see myself in biglaw long-term, so by the time I reach that stage I'll likely be looking to do something else.

Are you part of a large firm? I'm wondering if it might be different at a smaller firm.

Not anon from above. But your instinct is right. Boutiques and smaller firms with less leverage generally give their associates more substantive experience earlier. It can be terrifying because you have to do everything and the first year or two everything you do is something you've never done before. And you have to put in time to do it right. If you're the kind of person who would thrive in that kind of environment, though, go for it. It's worth it.

[Anonymous User]

OP, maybe I missed in the responses, but are you in litigation? Sounds like litigation.... I'm corporate, so I don't really know what it looks like for litigation juniors, but my personal experience as a corporate junior has been large expanses of "boredom" (i.e. I'm not doing much value add, just pushing around a lot of work I don't really understand that ultimately doesn't seem to make a huge difference) punctuated by moments of achievement and value (i.e. closing deals, seeing my work product be deemed good and being used by the client, seeing my work get publicly filed, etc.). These aren't my OWN/solitary wins since I'm part of a team, of course, but I found an immense sense of achievement in being a part of a big M&A deal that closed with both parties really happy and the whole team really happy (to be done). If you're litigation, I can see how you would miss out on some of those high points that can make you forget the expanse of boredom/drudgery that came before it.

Do you not get to experience those kinds of moments, or is it that even in those kinds of moments, you're not feeling the validation or finding the kind of win you're looking for?

[Wild Card]

I just wish I made more money. After taxes, rent, 401(k) deductions, salary advance deductions, and aggressive loan payments, I take home only $500 from every paycheck.

[Excellent117]

OP, maybe I missed in the responses, but are you in litigation? Sounds like litigation.... I'm corporate, so I don't really know what it looks like for litigation juniors, but my personal experience as a corporate junior has been large expanses of "boredom" (i.e. I'm not doing much value add, just pushing around a lot of work I don't really understand that ultimately doesn't seem to make a huge difference) punctuated by moments of achievement and value (i.e. closing deals, seeing my work product be deemed good and being used by the client, seeing my work get publicly filed, etc.). These aren't my OWN/solitary wins since I'm part of a team, of course, but I found an immense sense of achievement in being a part of a big M&A deal that closed with both parties really happy and the whole team really happy (to be done). If you're litigation, I can see how you would miss out on some of those high points that can make you forget the expanse of boredom/drudgery that came before it.

Do you not get to experience those kinds of moments, or is it that even in those kinds of moments, you're not feeling the validation or finding the kind of win you're looking for?

These get really old, really fast. Dollar values eventually become meaningless numbers on a page.

[glib]

Lmao - welcome to the real world people. You do a job and are paid so you don't starve and die.

[LaLiLuLeLo]

It's a pure devil's pact of selling your soul / selling the best years of your life for a little bit more money.

lol this is the truth.

But I will say if you’re like me and basically don’t care about your career in biglaw it’s pretty easy to set boundaries. I’ll generally be the typical available associate Mon-Fri but I try (and have been successful!) to not work weekends and I’m not sure I can think of a single time I’ve cancelled plans. I might have had to work a bit during a trip or before a festival or something but I don’t straight up cancel plans.

That being said if you know you’re trying to sign a deal on X day you probably shouldn’t make plans at all around that time. Which is shitty in its own way.

[s1m4]

It's a pure devil's pact of selling your soul / selling the best years of your life for a little bit more money.

lol this is the truth.

But I will say if you’re like me and basically don’t care about your career in biglaw it’s pretty easy to set boundaries. I’ll generally be the typical available associate Mon-Fri but I try (and have been successful!) to not work weekends and I’m not sure I can think of a single time I’ve cancelled plans. I might have had to work a bit during a trip or before a festival or something but I don’t straight up cancel plans.

That being said if you know you’re trying to sign a deal on X day you probably shouldn’t make plans at all around that time. Which is shitty in its own way.

Nice! What practice group/year are you?