V5 v V10 v V45-55 Forum

[Anonymous User]

I'm in the fortunate but tough position of having a few options as a 3L, and I was hoping some of you could weigh in. For the sake of anonymity, some of the information in my post will be completely wrong/misleading, but none of it should be material to my choices here. Though, I figure a couple of the firms might be rather easy to ascertain.

1. 1. I'm currently at a NY V45-55 (Willkie/Fried Frank/Cadwalader), and I've had a very mixed summer experience. I've had some really terrible interactions with the groups I've gotten work from, but I've had a lot of very positive interactions with the folks in our Corporate practice. If I came back, I'd request to be in our Corporate practice, which is considered relatively strong, but I'm a bit worried about getting stuck in the fairly niche practices that I've spent time with (e.g. Asset Management/Funds/Derivatives/Cybersecurity), because I was pretty much the only summer to really get exposure with them, and they seem to need bodies. To be clear, I REALLY liked the practice, but I hated the people/how work was distributed/quality of work/other intangibles. Unfortunately for me, my firm does not let you know where you've landed until a month before you start. A fairly senior Corporate partner in the firm has taken a decent amount of interest in me and seems to genuinely think I have a good bit of potential at the firm. The partner is the type of person I'd love to work with, but there just is no guarantee. I've also had some extensive interactions with two other Corporate partners that I would also be thrilled to work with. The other two partners are both on the younger side, and I could see them having a solid mentorship role.
   
   2. The V10 that I have an offer from is in one of the niche groups I rotated through, and it'd allow me to return to my home market, which has a much better COL than the market of my NY V45-V55 and some other positive factors in my eyes (e.g. more friends/family). This V10 has been pursuing incredibly aggressive growth and churns and burns through associates, so I'm not sure to what extent I have a future there. It's generally known for its sweatshop like work culture (though so is the V45-55 to a lesser extent and the V5 to an equal extent). In my region, the name carries a lot of weight, much more so than the NY V45-55 and probably as much as the NY V5.
   
   3. The non-WLRK (because I know that matters) NY V5 that I have an offer from is also in the niche practice, and it seems to have a good but hard working environment. I liked all of the partners and associates that I met, and the deals are no doubt consistently more impressive/cool than my NY V45-55. Due to the composition of the work, I also know I'd have fewer hellish assignments than at the V10. The name is also undoubtedly amazing to have on a resume. The training here is supposedly considered superb, and the firm has certain policies which indicate they have to invest in their associates. Due to the way compensation is structured at the partner/associate level, the atmosphere seems very collaborative.

The niche work interests me quite a bit and I'll 100% get much more responsibility earlier on, but I think in the long-term the Corporate work would be just as interesting. The exit options for the Corporate work are also a lot more compelling to me (I'm broadly interested in exiting to the GC office of a Foundation/Family Office/Non-profit/Etc.). At the same time, maybe the exit options in the niche work at a V5/V10 are so much better than that of Corporate work at a V45-55, and they could be as much if not more enjoyable for me.

Also, for what it's worth, I'm an extreme workaholic, and, while It's probably a terrible disease of sorts, I truly enjoy it.

Thanks for the feedback.

[UnfrozenCaveman]

When you say quality of work do you mean the type of deals, etc. or that the other attorneys work product may be sub par?

[Anonymous User]

When you say quality of work do you mean the type of deals, etc. or that the other attorneys work product may be sub par?

I mean actual quality of work. In the specialty group, there are distinctly different levels of work quality. The firm does a lot of lower quality "low margin" work that is very atypical for its size and would usually exist at regional midlaw shops.

[Anonymous User]

From your descriptions, I would choose NY V5. By the way, can I ask how and when you got the offers from other firms? I want to switch a firm after SA but there isn't much progress so far.

[UnfrozenCaveman]

When you say quality of work do you mean the type of deals, etc. or that the other attorneys work product may be sub par?

I mean actual quality of work. In the specialty group, there are distinctly different levels of work quality. The firm does a lot of lower quality "low margin" work that is very atypical for its size and would usually exist at regional midlaw shops.

Ok. Makes sense. In any case, based on your description, #1 seems to be easy to eliminate. #2 and #3 seem similar enough that you should just make the personal choice.

As a side note: have you actually gotten work from the corporate practice at your summer firm? As it's written it (1) doesn't seem like you have received work from the corporate group and (2) you've only had terrible interactions with groups you've worked with. It may not be accurate and I'm truly not drawing conclusions about you based on this, but you may want to think about that on a personal level.

[Man from Nantucket]

I'm in the fortunate but tough position of having a few options as a 3L, and I was hoping some of you could weigh in. For the sake of anonymity, some of the information in my post will be completely wrong/misleading, but none of it should be material to my choices here. Though, I figure a couple of the firms might be rather easy to ascertain.

1. 1. I'm currently at a NY V45-55 (Willkie/Fried Frank/Cadwalader), and I've had a very mixed summer experience. I've had some really terrible interactions with the groups I've gotten work from, but I've had a lot of very positive interactions with the folks in our Corporate practice. If I came back, I'd request to be in our Corporate practice, which is considered relatively strong, but I'm a bit worried about getting stuck in the fairly niche practices that I've spent time with (e.g. Asset Management/Funds/Derivatives/Cybersecurity), because I was pretty much the only summer to really get exposure with them, and they seem to need bodies. To be clear, I REALLY liked the practice, but I hated the people/how work was distributed/quality of work/other intangibles. Unfortunately for me, my firm does not let you know where you've landed until a month before you start. A fairly senior Corporate partner in the firm has taken a decent amount of interest in me and seems to genuinely think I have a good bit of potential at the firm. The partner is the type of person I'd love to work with, but there just is no guarantee. I've also had some extensive interactions with two other Corporate partners that I would also be thrilled to work with. The other two partners are both on the younger side, and I could see them having a solid mentorship role.
   
   2. The V10 that I have an offer from is in one of the niche groups I rotated through, and it'd allow me to return to my home market, which has a much better COL than the market of my NY V45-V55 and some other positive factors in my eyes (e.g. more friends/family). This V10 has been pursuing incredibly aggressive growth and churns and burns through associates, so I'm not sure to what extent I have a future there. It's generally known for its sweatshop like work culture (though so is the V45-55 to a lesser extent and the V5 to an equal extent). In my region, the name carries a lot of weight, much more so than the NY V45-55 and probably as much as the NY V5.
   
   3. The non-WLRK (because I know that matters) NY V5 that I have an offer from is also in the niche practice, and it seems to have a good but hard working environment. I liked all of the partners and associates that I met, and the deals are no doubt consistently more impressive/cool than my NY V45-55. Due to the composition of the work, I also know I'd have fewer hellish assignments than at the V10. The name is also undoubtedly amazing to have on a resume. The training here is supposedly considered superb, and the firm has certain policies which indicate they have to invest in their associates. Due to the way compensation is structured at the partner/associate level, the atmosphere seems very collaborative.

The niche work interests me quite a bit and I'll 100% get much more responsibility earlier on, but I think in the long-term the Corporate work would be just as interesting. The exit options for the Corporate work are also a lot more compelling to me (I'm broadly interested in exiting to the GC office of a Foundation/Family Office/Non-profit/Etc.). At the same time, maybe the exit options in the niche work at a V5/V10 are so much better than that of Corporate work at a V45-55, and they could be as much if not more enjoyable for me.

Also, for what it's worth, I'm an extreme workaholic, and, while It's probably a terrible disease of sorts, I truly enjoy it.

Thanks for the feedback.

Chicago is great, go to KE.

[nealric]

I'm in the fortunate but tough position of having a few options as a 3L, and I was hoping some of you could weigh in. For the sake of anonymity, some of the information in my post will be completely wrong/misleading, but none of it should be material to my choices here. Though, I figure a couple of the firms might be rather easy to ascertain.

1. 1. I'm currently at a NY V45-55 (Willkie/Fried Frank/Cadwalader), and I've had a very mixed summer experience. I've had some really terrible interactions with the groups I've gotten work from, but I've had a lot of very positive interactions with the folks in our Corporate practice. If I came back, I'd request to be in our Corporate practice, which is considered relatively strong, but I'm a bit worried about getting stuck in the fairly niche practices that I've spent time with (e.g. Asset Management/Funds/Derivatives/Cybersecurity), because I was pretty much the only summer to really get exposure with them, and they seem to need bodies. To be clear, I REALLY liked the practice, but I hated the people/how work was distributed/quality of work/other intangibles. Unfortunately for me, my firm does not let you know where you've landed until a month before you start. A fairly senior Corporate partner in the firm has taken a decent amount of interest in me and seems to genuinely think I have a good bit of potential at the firm. The partner is the type of person I'd love to work with, but there just is no guarantee. I've also had some extensive interactions with two other Corporate partners that I would also be thrilled to work with. The other two partners are both on the younger side, and I could see them having a solid mentorship role.
   
   2. The V10 that I have an offer from is in one of the niche groups I rotated through, and it'd allow me to return to my home market, which has a much better COL than the market of my NY V45-V55 and some other positive factors in my eyes (e.g. more friends/family). This V10 has been pursuing incredibly aggressive growth and churns and burns through associates, so I'm not sure to what extent I have a future there. It's generally known for its sweatshop like work culture (though so is the V45-55 to a lesser extent and the V5 to an equal extent). In my region, the name carries a lot of weight, much more so than the NY V45-55 and probably as much as the NY V5.
   
   3. The non-WLRK (because I know that matters) NY V5 that I have an offer from is also in the niche practice, and it seems to have a good but hard working environment. I liked all of the partners and associates that I met, and the deals are no doubt consistently more impressive/cool than my NY V45-55. Due to the composition of the work, I also know I'd have fewer hellish assignments than at the V10. The name is also undoubtedly amazing to have on a resume. The training here is supposedly considered superb, and the firm has certain policies which indicate they have to invest in their associates. Due to the way compensation is structured at the partner/associate level, the atmosphere seems very collaborative.

The niche work interests me quite a bit and I'll 100% get much more responsibility earlier on, but I think in the long-term the Corporate work would be just as interesting. The exit options for the Corporate work are also a lot more compelling to me (I'm broadly interested in exiting to the GC office of a Foundation/Family Office/Non-profit/Etc.). At the same time, maybe the exit options in the niche work at a V5/V10 are so much better than that of Corporate work at a V45-55, and they could be as much if not more enjoyable for me.

Also, for what it's worth, I'm an extreme workaholic, and, while It's probably a terrible disease of sorts, I truly enjoy it.

Thanks for the feedback.

Chicago is great, go to KE.

Could also be Houston KE.

I'd be between the v5 and the v10. It really would boil down to location in my mind. Do you see yourself in NYC or your home market? An extreme workaholic should be happy in either of those situations.

[Anonymous User]

i summered at your V10 in that office. Started at a V5 and am now at a different V10 in NY. I wouldn't stay at Willkie/Cad/Fried Frank with these options.

[Anonymous User]

From your descriptions, I would choose NY V5. By the way, can I ask how and when you got the offers from other firms? I want to switch a firm after SA but there isn't much progress so far.

OP here. I leveraged a partner contact I made through school at one firm. For that firm, I went straight to callbacks after about a month and a half of nudging my application forward every couple of weeks (once I mentioned I had interviews with the V5 things did seem to speed up). The other firm posted an opening in my specific practice group on my school's job site about 4-5 weeks into the summer. I got my materials together ASAP, applied, heard back about a month later about getting a screener, (so week 8-9 of summer), and I did my callback the week after with an offer that night.

My case is extremely unusual, because I had all of my offers before the end of the last day of my 2L SA. I have no clue how the process normally plays out for folk.

As a side note: have you actually gotten work from the corporate practice at your summer firm? As it's written it (1) doesn't seem like you have received work from the corporate group and (2) you've only had terrible interactions with groups you've worked with. It may not be accurate and I'm truly not drawing conclusions about you based on this, but you may want to think about that on a personal level.

This is a correct read in the sense I've had bad experiences only with groups I worked with and have not tried out corporate work at my firm. I do think you're reading a bit too far into it though. I had a phenomenal time with one of the groups I worked with, but I'm not interested in working in that group. My review coming out of the group was that I was the best summer they've ever had. My reviews from the two other groups I did work with were good (not exceptional), and I prefer the work, but the people just made it unpleasant.

Thanks for all the feedback everyone. It looks like I'll eliminate option #1 and have to consider location and some of the other intangibles for #2 vs #3. If it helps at all, #2 = KE Houston and #3 = Cravath.

[Anonymous User]

From your descriptions, I would choose NY V5. By the way, can I ask how and when you got the offers from other firms? I want to switch a firm after SA but there isn't much progress so far.

OP here. I leveraged a partner contact I made through school at one firm. For that firm, I went straight to callbacks after about a month and a half of nudging my application forward every couple of weeks (once I mentioned I had interviews with the V5 things did seem to speed up). The other firm posted an opening in my specific practice group on my school's job site about 4-5 weeks into the summer. I got my materials together ASAP, applied, heard back about a month later about getting a screener, (so week 8-9 of summer), and I did my callback the week after with an offer that night.

My case is extremely unusual, because I had all of my offers before the end of the last day of my 2L SA. I have no clue how the process normally plays out for folk.

As a side note: have you actually gotten work from the corporate practice at your summer firm? As it's written it (1) doesn't seem like you have received work from the corporate group and (2) you've only had terrible interactions with groups you've worked with. It may not be accurate and I'm truly not drawing conclusions about you based on this, but you may want to think about that on a personal level.

This is a correct read in the sense I've had bad experiences only with groups I worked with and have not tried out corporate work at my firm. I do think you're reading a bit too far into it though. I had a phenomenal time with one of the groups I worked with, but I'm not interested in working in that group. My review coming out of the group was that I was the best summer they've ever had. My reviews from the two other groups I did work with were good (not exceptional), and I prefer the work, but the people just made it unpleasant.

Thanks for all the feedback everyone. It looks like I'll eliminate option #1 and have to consider location and some of the other intangibles for #2 vs #3. If it helps at all, #2 = KE Houston and #3 = Cravath.

This is amazing. Sorry to hijack the thread but would you mind sharing your school/stats? I heard that people usually hear back around Sept/Oct for 3L hiring, so it looks like you had an amazing turnaround. Thank you!

[Anonymous User]

From your descriptions, I would choose NY V5. By the way, can I ask how and when you got the offers from other firms? I want to switch a firm after SA but there isn't much progress so far.

OP here. I leveraged a partner contact I made through school at one firm. For that firm, I went straight to callbacks after about a month and a half of nudging my application forward every couple of weeks (once I mentioned I had interviews with the V5 things did seem to speed up). The other firm posted an opening in my specific practice group on my school's job site about 4-5 weeks into the summer. I got my materials together ASAP, applied, heard back about a month later about getting a screener, (so week 8-9 of summer), and I did my callback the week after with an offer that night.

My case is extremely unusual, because I had all of my offers before the end of the last day of my 2L SA. I have no clue how the process normally plays out for folk.

As a side note: have you actually gotten work from the corporate practice at your summer firm? As it's written it (1) doesn't seem like you have received work from the corporate group and (2) you've only had terrible interactions with groups you've worked with. It may not be accurate and I'm truly not drawing conclusions about you based on this, but you may want to think about that on a personal level.

This is a correct read in the sense I've had bad experiences only with groups I worked with and have not tried out corporate work at my firm. I do think you're reading a bit too far into it though. I had a phenomenal time with one of the groups I worked with, but I'm not interested in working in that group. My review coming out of the group was that I was the best summer they've ever had. My reviews from the two other groups I did work with were good (not exceptional), and I prefer the work, but the people just made it unpleasant.

Thanks for all the feedback everyone. It looks like I'll eliminate option #1 and have to consider location and some of the other intangibles for #2 vs #3. If it helps at all, #2 = KE Houston and #3 = Cravath.

Anon because I work at one of these firms.

I assume Cravath is exec comp (since I think thats all they do 3L hiring for). Cravath and K&E are very different culturally and you should decide which is a better fit for your personality. Also, I don't know a ton about exec comp but it seems pretty niche and I would worry about exit ops. Idk what you would be doing at K&E but I think its worth considering what your long term goals are and how each option conforms with that.

[Anonymous User]

This is amazing. Sorry to hijack the thread but would you mind sharing your school/stats? I heard that people usually hear back around Sept/Oct for 3L hiring, so it looks like you had an amazing turnaround. Thank you!

OP here. I'd be fine doing this via PM. It's probably more amazing knowing my stats, lol. I punched above my weight, considerably.

Anon because I work at one of these firms.

I assume Cravath is exec comp (since I think thats all they do 3L hiring for). Cravath and K&E are very different culturally and you should decide which is a better fit for your personality. Also, I don't know a ton about exec comp but it seems pretty niche and I would worry about exit ops. Idk what you would be doing at K&E but I think its worth considering what your long term goals are and how each option conforms with that.

For others in the future, Cravath does not only hire into exec comp for 3L hiring.

Thanks for the note about K&E. That's good to consider. Any personal anecdotes about cultural differences at the firms?

[kams18]

This is amazing. Sorry to hijack the thread but would you mind sharing your school/stats? I heard that people usually hear back around Sept/Oct for 3L hiring, so it looks like you had an amazing turnaround. Thank you!

OP here. I'd be fine doing this via PM. It's probably more amazing knowing my stats, lol. I punched above my weight, considerably.

Anon because I work at one of these firms.

I assume Cravath is exec comp (since I think thats all they do 3L hiring for). Cravath and K&E are very different culturally and you should decide which is a better fit for your personality. Also, I don't know a ton about exec comp but it seems pretty niche and I would worry about exit ops. Idk what you would be doing at K&E but I think its worth considering what your long term goals are and how each option conforms with that.

For others in the future, Cravath does not only hire into exec comp for 3L hiring.

Thanks for the note about K&E. That's good to consider. Any personal anecdotes about cultural differences at the firms?

Anon from above--could you please PM your stats as well as which group at Cravath you got offer from. Thanks very much in advance.