What is a typical biglaw first year stipend/salary advance? Forum

[Logicalfallacy]

I'm trying to research what the typical bar stipend/salary advance is for biglaw this year but can't find any info on it... The latest info I could find was all the way back in 2014. I got an offer from my firm, but am still awaiting these types of details. Does anyone have any insight on this?

[nrthwst4now]

15-20k + moving expenses.

[RaceJudicata]

I got $10k + direct payment for Barbri. It wasn’t an advance — so I didn’t need to repay.

[QContinuum]

NY is typically a $10k salary advance, plus bar expenses (prep course and supplements, travel expenses if applicable, test fees) and moving expenses (if applicable). Some firms will give $15k. I don't think $20k is common.

Non-NY is more likely to give a stipend (though a few NY firms also do this). The stipend is typically also $10k-15k, but need not be repaid, unlike the advance. Some firms will make you pay your bar/moving expenses yourself, out of the stipend (they may give a slightly larger stipend to account for this).

[nrthwst4now]

Yeah, to clarify, I don't know what is "common." I feel like most of my friends got around 15, I have not heard anyone get it as an "advance."

My firm did 15K stipend + large moving expense payment + paid for bar prep course.

[Wild Card]

$15K ADVANCE at my V50.

Paid back over 12 months through paycheck deductions.

[DCESQ]

I got 10K as an advance plus bar prep expenses paid directly to barbri. If it’s an advance I would actually advise against taking it.

I ended up with about $6k after taxes but had $1k deducted from my first 10 checks. I think it was a pretty bad deal in that respect. I bet I could have taken out a bar loan and paid it back well before I paid $4k in interest.

If it’s a true stipend and not an advance (meaning you don’t have to pay it back) then I would do it because there’s obviously no downside. But if it’s an advance, the taxes make it not worth it IMO.

[beeoBoop]

I got 10K as an advance plus bar prep expenses paid directly to barbri. If it’s an advance I would actually advise against taking it.

I ended up with about $6k after taxes but had $1k deducted from my first 10 checks. I think it was a pretty bad deal in that respect. I bet I could have taken out a bar loan and paid it back well before I paid $4k in interest.

If it’s a true stipend and not an advance (meaning you don’t have to pay it back) then I would do it because there’s obviously no downside. But if it’s an advance, the taxes make it not worth it IMO.

It's basically bar dues and an advance. It's very rare to get a stipend, esp as a first year. And an advance isn't helpful, you're just borrowing money from yourself.

Every firm will pay bar prep fees. The advance should be a total nonfactor

[Anonymous User]

I got 10K as an advance plus bar prep expenses paid directly to barbri. If it’s an advance I would actually advise against taking it.

I ended up with about $6k after taxes but had $1k deducted from my first 10 checks. I think it was a pretty bad deal in that respect. I bet I could have taken out a bar loan and paid it back well before I paid $4k in interest.

If it’s a true stipend and not an advance (meaning you don’t have to pay it back) then I would do it because there’s obviously no downside. But if it’s an advance, the taxes make it not worth it IMO.

It's basically bar dues and an advance. It's very rare to get a stipend, esp as a first year. And an advance isn't helpful, you're just borrowing money from yourself.

Every firm will pay bar prep fees. The advance should be a total nonfactor

Are stipends really rare? Kirkland pays a stipend ($10k) rather than advance. But Kirkland doesn't pay stub bonuses, which come out to about $4k give or take.

I imagine advance vs. stipend/stub bonus/whatever other onboarding perks (movers, how many hotel nights you get while moving, etc.) all vary across firms more than we might expect in an industry where comp is identical down to the dollar.

[QContinuum]

I got 10K as an advance plus bar prep expenses paid directly to barbri. If it’s an advance I would actually advise against taking it.

I ended up with about $6k after taxes but had $1k deducted from my first 10 checks. I think it was a pretty bad deal in that respect. I bet I could have taken out a bar loan and paid it back well before I paid $4k in interest.

You actually would've had to pay that $4k in taxes even if you hadn't taken out the advance. That's just normal federal/state income taxes. At most, you paid those taxes a bit earlier than you otherwise would've needed to (but then, you also received access to that $10k earlier). You weren't actually paying anything remotely close to $4k in interest.

[Person1111]

I got 10K as an advance plus bar prep expenses paid directly to barbri. If it’s an advance I would actually advise against taking it.

I ended up with about $6k after taxes but had $1k deducted from my first 10 checks. I think it was a pretty bad deal in that respect. I bet I could have taken out a bar loan and paid it back well before I paid $4k in interest.

If it’s a true stipend and not an advance (meaning you don’t have to pay it back) then I would do it because there’s obviously no downside. But if it’s an advance, the taxes make it not worth it IMO.

It's basically bar dues and an advance. It's very rare to get a stipend, esp as a first year. And an advance isn't helpful, you're just borrowing money from yourself.

Every firm will pay bar prep fees. The advance should be a total nonfactor

Stipend is the norm from non-NY firms IME.

[Anonymous User]

My firm paid a $10K stipend, did not cover bar expenses, and we all started in late September, got paid for 7 days (because we were always paid on a certain day of the month, monthly), and so we got no more money for a month. They improved their communication re the seven day paycheck the following year.

My firm was bottom end of the V100, Philly-based.

[LaLiLuLeLo]

I got 10K as an advance plus bar prep expenses paid directly to barbri. If it’s an advance I would actually advise against taking it.

I ended up with about $6k after taxes but had $1k deducted from my first 10 checks. I think it was a pretty bad deal in that respect. I bet I could have taken out a bar loan and paid it back well before I paid $4k in interest.

You actually would've had to pay that $4k in taxes even if you hadn't taken out the advance. That's just normal federal/state income taxes. At most, you paid those taxes a bit earlier than you otherwise would've needed to (but then, you also received access to that $10k earlier). You weren't actually paying anything remotely close to $4k in interest.

Yeah that’s some bad math/personal finance going on there. It baffles me thinking you’re better off taking an actual loan than a salary advance.

Also, most firms that do stipend do no stub bonus. If you get an advance most firms did a stub bonus. In my case it was an advance and a bonus which was great.

[Logicalfallacy]

I got 10K as an advance plus bar prep expenses paid directly to barbri. If it’s an advance I would actually advise against taking it.

I ended up with about $6k after taxes but had $1k deducted from my first 10 checks. I think it was a pretty bad deal in that respect. I bet I could have taken out a bar loan and paid it back well before I paid $4k in interest.

You actually would've had to pay that $4k in taxes even if you hadn't taken out the advance. That's just normal federal/state income taxes. At most, you paid those taxes a bit earlier than you otherwise would've needed to (but then, you also received access to that $10k earlier). You weren't actually paying anything remotely close to $4k in interest.

Yeah that’s some bad math/personal finance going on there. It baffles me thinking you’re better off taking an actual loan than a salary advance.

Also, most firms that do stipend do no stub bonus. If you get an advance most firms did a stub bonus. In my case it was an advance and a bonus which was great.

Sorry I'm totally illiterate in this area but what are stub bonuses and how do they work? Do they give it to you at the same time as the salary advance or is it not until you actually start working?

[Anonymous User]

I got 10K as an advance plus bar prep expenses paid directly to barbri. If it’s an advance I would actually advise against taking it.

I ended up with about $6k after taxes but had $1k deducted from my first 10 checks. I think it was a pretty bad deal in that respect. I bet I could have taken out a bar loan and paid it back well before I paid $4k in interest.

If it’s a true stipend and not an advance (meaning you don’t have to pay it back) then I would do it because there’s obviously no downside. But if it’s an advance, the taxes make it not worth it IMO.

It's basically bar dues and an advance. It's very rare to get a stipend, esp as a first year. And an advance isn't helpful, you're just borrowing money from yourself.

Every firm will pay bar prep fees. The advance should be a total nonfactor

Are stipends really rare? Kirkland pays a stipend ($10k) rather than advance. But Kirkland doesn't pay stub bonuses, which come out to about $4k give or take.

I imagine advance vs. stipend/stub bonus/whatever other onboarding perks (movers, how many hotel nights you get while moving, etc.) all vary across firms more than we might expect in an industry where comp is identical down to the dollar.

Latham is 15k stipend (less taxes), bar stuff and moving costs but no stub bonus. I think it’s nicer because it may take you a bit to get settled in.

[Anonymous User]

I got 10K as an advance plus bar prep expenses paid directly to barbri. If it’s an advance I would actually advise against taking it.

I ended up with about $6k after taxes but had $1k deducted from my first 10 checks. I think it was a pretty bad deal in that respect. I bet I could have taken out a bar loan and paid it back well before I paid $4k in interest.

If it’s a true stipend and not an advance (meaning you don’t have to pay it back) then I would do it because there’s obviously no downside. But if it’s an advance, the taxes make it not worth it IMO.

It's basically bar dues and an advance. It's very rare to get a stipend, esp as a first year. And an advance isn't helpful, you're just borrowing money from yourself.

Every firm will pay bar prep fees. The advance should be a total nonfactor

Are stipends really rare? Kirkland pays a stipend ($10k) rather than advance. But Kirkland doesn't pay stub bonuses, which come out to about $4k give or take.

I imagine advance vs. stipend/stub bonus/whatever other onboarding perks (movers, how many hotel nights you get while moving, etc.) all vary across firms more than we might expect in an industry where comp is identical down to the dollar.

Latham is 15k stipend (less taxes), bar stuff and moving costs but no stub bonus. I think it’s nicer because it may take you a bit to get settled in.

My firm paid a 15k stipend (minus taxes) and paid for BARBRI and moving costs. I will also receive a small (I believe 5k) end-of-year bonus. Boutique in NYC.

[LaLiLuLeLo]

I got 10K as an advance plus bar prep expenses paid directly to barbri. If it’s an advance I would actually advise against taking it.

I ended up with about $6k after taxes but had $1k deducted from my first 10 checks. I think it was a pretty bad deal in that respect. I bet I could have taken out a bar loan and paid it back well before I paid $4k in interest.

You actually would've had to pay that $4k in taxes even if you hadn't taken out the advance. That's just normal federal/state income taxes. At most, you paid those taxes a bit earlier than you otherwise would've needed to (but then, you also received access to that $10k earlier). You weren't actually paying anything remotely close to $4k in interest.

Yeah that’s some bad math/personal finance going on there. It baffles me thinking you’re better off taking an actual loan than a salary advance.

Also, most firms that do stipend do no stub bonus. If you get an advance most firms did a stub bonus. In my case it was an advance and a bonus which was great.

Sorry I'm totally illiterate in this area but what are stub bonuses and how do they work? Do they give it to you at the same time as the salary advance or is it not until you actually start working?

It’s the typical end of year bonus but for stub years. Prorated based on the first year bonus. Gets paid out at the same time as other bonuses (depends on the firm).

[Anonymous User]

Sidley's is an $18.5k stipend. This is meant to cover moving, bar prep, and living stipend but its just given to you in a lump sum payment. Stub bonus is a flat $10k.

I feel like ATL or someone should compile a database of all of this. Could be useful when deciding between similarly situated firms as the difference in first year pay could be quite significant.

[jkpolk]

I feel like ATL or someone should compile a database of all of this. Could be useful when deciding between similarly situated firms as the difference in first year pay could be quite significant.

Strong agree.

[Anonymous User]

Nixon Peabody's stipend is 10k for all bar fees, prep, moving expenses, etc. but no bonuses for stubs. Really wasn't a good deal because you couldnt bill say Barbri to the firm. Everything came out of the 6k you got after taxes. But at least it was not a salary advance.

[Anonymous User]

Sidley's is an $18.5k stipend. This is meant to cover moving, bar prep, and living stipend but its just given to you in a lump sum payment. Stub bonus is a flat $10k.

I wish more firms took the money they would otherwise send to Barbri in a direct bill and just add it on to the stipend. If my firm had done that, I probably would have tried to spend 3L as a Barbri or Themis campus rep, gotten a free bar course, and pocketed the cash.

I am kind of glad that my firm did not do this for moving expenses, because there's no way I would have chosen to hire the 100% full service don't-lift-a-finger pack-load-unload-unpack type movers, but it was amazing to have them when it was on the firm's dime and I no longer despise moving with a passion. But rationally speaking that would be better financially too, I guess.

[Anonymous User]

Winston & Strawn paid $10k stipend plus moving, bar study and fees and still got a stub bonus. This was several years ago, but I am fairly certain it has not changed. I didn't think it was that rare to get a stipend and stub bonus.

[Anonymous User]

I'm trying to research what the typical bar stipend/salary advance is for biglaw this year but can't find any info on it... The latest info I could find was all the way back in 2014. I got an offer from my firm, but am still awaiting these types of details. Does anyone have any insight on this?

Anyone know the current full stipend number for Kirkland?

[Anonymous User]

Anyone know how much Gibson Dunn gives? Advance vs stipend?

[Anonymous User]

I'm trying to research what the typical bar stipend/salary advance is for biglaw this year but can't find any info on it... The latest info I could find was all the way back in 2014. I got an offer from my firm, but am still awaiting these types of details. Does anyone have any insight on this?

Anyone know the current full stipend number for Kirkland?

It’s $10k as of this past year. Stipend, not advance. Also since it sounds like some firms expect you to apply the stipend to moving or bar expenses, I’ll point out that Kirkland reimburses both of those things separate from the stipend.

Bar expenses include BarBri/Themis, AdaptiBar, registration fees, ancillary fees, and travel/lodging/meals/rental car/Uber for the Bar exam ($40 breakfast, $50 lunch, $100 dinner - no cap on the other stuff).

Relocation expenses include a full-service move (including packing/disassembly and unpacking/assembly) max 6,000lbs (above that you pay the difference), shipping for 1 car, hotel and meals for move out day, hotel and meals for move in day, and then either flights or daily hotel/meals if driving. All of the above apply to spouses and children (probably non-spouse partners too but idk). I’ve heard relocation for laterals is more generous and basically uncapped for shipping weight and cars.