Billable Target and Bonus Forum

[Anonymous User]

I'm a second year associate working at Biglaw in NY. My firm has a fixed 1900 billables requirement to be eligible for bonus - I'm falling short of that this year (should end up around 1500-1600). Basically, I requested to move to the NY office from a satellite office mid-year for personal reasons, which was granted. As a result, in the ramp down from the satellite office and the ramp up in the NY office, I lost about 3 solid months of billable work (months where I billed 0-50 hours). I'm told often that my work is appreciated and that the team values my contribution. Even so, I'm rarely billing more than 7-8 hours on any given day. The practice group I'm in has historically had trouble hiring / retaining talent.

Here's the question: is it a stretch to ask them to give me a concession as a result of the move and pay my bonus? Should I ask for the full amount or a pro rated amount? I'm wary of rocking the boar since I just moved over a few months ago and I'm also looking for the firm to sponsor my greencard / permanent residence visa petition next year.

Appreciate your inputs!

[KM2016]

I'm a second year associate working at Biglaw in NY. My firm has a fixed 1900 billables requirement to be eligible for bonus - I'm falling short of that this year (should end up around 1500-1600). Basically, I requested to move to the NY office from a satellite office mid-year for personal reasons, which was granted. As a result, in the ramp down from the satellite office and the ramp up in the NY office, I lost about 3 solid months of billable work (months where I billed 0-50 hours). I'm told often that my work is appreciated and that the team values my contribution. Even so, I'm rarely billing more than 7-8 hours on any given day. The practice group I'm in has historically had trouble hiring / retaining talent.

Here's the question: is it a stretch to ask them to give me a concession as a result of the move and pay my bonus? Should I ask for the full amount or a pro rated amount? I'm wary of rocking the boar since I just moved over a few months ago and I'm also looking for the firm to sponsor my greencard / permanent residence visa petition next year.

Appreciate your inputs!

I wouldn't rock the boar if I were you.

In all seriousness though, given that the firm accommodated your move to a new office and you're going to ask for greencard sponsorship in the near future, I don't think you're in any position to ask for a bonus. A 1900 billable requirement for bonuses isn't even that high, so I wouldn't draw attention to the fact you'll be well below that minimum, let alone asking for a bonus. While it's understandable you lost some billables making the move from one office to another, the firm could take the view that you should have maintained your utilization since it was an intra-firm transfer.

[papermateflair]

I wouldn't ask for a bonus. Maybe if your low hours were because of something the firm did that was out of your control, but you're not like, 100 hours behind because your firm made you spend 300 hours on a non-billable business development project - you're behind because you requested to move. At some firms being significantly below hours would lead to being held back a year for comp purposes, and you don't want to look completely out of touch.

[jkpolk]

No problem at all asking but they'll probably say no.

[ghostoftraynor]

For the reasons others have already stated, I think this is a terrible idea.

[Excellent117]

You all are way too risk averse. OP should just ask. The worst that can happen is the firm says no, which they probably will, but they're not going to hold it over OP going forward.

[beepboopbeep]

Do you know that you aren't getting a bonus yet? It's July. Even if you end up below, I would guess your firm would make an affirmative decision about giving you a bonus or pro-rating one regardless of whether you ask, just based on anecdata of friends/colleagues who have ended up below a cutoff.

[Yea All Right]

You all are way too risk averse. OP should just ask. The worst that can happen is the firm says no, which they probably will, but they're not going to hold it over OP going forward.

That's the thing: you don't know that the firm won't hold it over OP.

Personally I wouldn't ask, but I'm admittedly risk-averse and not really a rock-the-boat type of guy. OP, if you feel otherwise, you do you. Especially if you don't think you'll be at the firm for the long-term.

[yankees12345!]

Do you know that you aren't getting a bonus yet? It's July. Even if you end up below, I would guess your firm would make an affirmative decision about giving you a bonus or pro-rating one regardless of whether you ask, just based on anecdata of friends/colleagues who have ended up below a cutoff.

Related question: do big firms tend to pay a bonus (either full or partial) to first-year associates who miss the target by, say, 100 hours or so?

Just curious, thanks for any replies.

[2013]

You’re going to come off as tonedeaf if you ask the firm for a full bonus when you’re at 1500 hours. It’s going to draw attention to your low hours, as others have mentioned.

This isn’t a situation where only risk averse people would avoid confrontation. It is downright idiotic to try to ask for a bonus when you cost the firm money by asking for the transfer.

[s1m4]

I think OP should ask when bonus time comes - a person asking for a bonus is not going to be determinitive in laying off that person, thats just silly, and neither will it "call attention to his hours", which partners see anyway. At my v100 bonuses are detemined by office, so if people like you at the new office they may definerly pro rate bonus to keep you.

[Saltnpeppa1]

You should definitely not ask for the bonus. The near certainty of you looking completely tone deaf outweighs the minimal increase chance that you will get a bonus because you asked. This seems like a pretty easy call.

[notinbiglaw]

Unless you’re some super star doing good work and clocking crazy billables trying to catch up, I think it’s silly to even ask.

Unless you’re okay with giving up part of the salary for the months you were underbilling due to the move too.

[hdivschool]

You shouldn't ask for the bonus. It is ridiculous to ask for it and you are lucky you are not being fired if you actually only bill 1500 hours.

[ghostoftraynor]

You should definitely not ask for the bonus. The near certainty of you looking completely tone deaf outweighs the minimal increase chance that you will get a bonus because you asked. This seems like a pretty easy call.

This. Not sure why we are being called "too risk adverse". I usually give people the benefit of the doubt, but I'd imagine I'd think less of an associate who made this request to me. And plenty of biglaw partners are not the type to give people much benefit of doubt.

Not that I think the consequences would be dramatic. Doubt anyone gets fired for asking for a bonus. But, people definitely could think less of you for it. On the flip side, I think chances of getting a bonus here are close to zero.

[Anonymous User]

Do you know that you aren't getting a bonus yet? It's July. Even if you end up below, I would guess your firm would make an affirmative decision about giving you a bonus or pro-rating one regardless of whether you ask, just based on anecdata of friends/colleagues who have ended up below a cutoff.

Related question: do big firms tend to pay a bonus (either full or partial) to first-year associates who miss the target by, say, 100 hours or so?

Just curious, thanks for any replies.

I billed like 1000 my first year and got a full bonus.

[Anonymous User]

I hate to derail OP's post, but...

I am in a similar position, albeit the firm moved me from a "general" practice group to a "specialized" group. Because of that, hours have been slower. I'm still on target for about 1,850, but that's still lower than the required 2,000. Is it in inappropriate to discuss a bonus with the higher ups in this context? And if so, WTF do I do? I know what most partners in my group would say (ie, "work harder"). Hopefully that's not the answer...

EDIT: for additional context... the move was the result of mainly working with this specialized group as the years went by... not gonna disclose more than that. anyways, thanks in advance for any advice.

[Wild Card]

Do you know that you aren't getting a bonus yet? It's July. Even if you end up below, I would guess your firm would make an affirmative decision about giving you a bonus or pro-rating one regardless of whether you ask, just based on anecdata of friends/colleagues who have ended up below a cutoff.

Related question: do big firms tend to pay a bonus (either full or partial) to first-year associates who miss the target by, say, 100 hours or so?

Just curious, thanks for any replies.

I billed like 1000 my first year and got a full bonus.

180

[Anonymous User]

I billed about 900 my first year and got full bonus. But at a firm without a hours requirement.

[patent_guy]

I billed about 900 my first year and got full bonus. But at a firm without a hours requirement.

How could one go about finding a firm that lets you bill 900 hours and not only stay employed but pays you a full bonus?

Mostly kidding, but holy shit my dude you struck gold here.

[Elston Gunn]

I billed about 900 my first year and got full bonus. But at a firm without a hours requirement.

How could one go about finding a firm that lets you bill 900 hours and not only stay employed but pays you a full bonus?

Mostly kidding, but holy shit my dude you struck gold here.

I don’t think this is *that* rare for corporate first years at the NY V10 type firms. Obviously you can’t keep billing that little for long.

[Anonymous User]

I billed about 900 my first year and got full bonus. But at a firm without a hours requirement.

How could one go about finding a firm that lets you bill 900 hours and not only stay employed but pays you a full bonus?

Mostly kidding, but holy shit my dude you struck gold here.

I don’t think this is *that* rare for corporate first years at the NY V10 type firms. Obviously you can’t keep billing that little for long.

Yup. There are firms with truly no billable requirement and everyone gets a bonus. It’s just part of the comp.

My second year was a normal year. First year was just a perfect storm of slow group and them being bad at integrating first years.

[Anonymous User]

I'm the 900 full bonus anon. I am at my v50 no bonus requirement firm's satellite office doing corporate work. My second year has been more normal--on pace for about 1,700-1,800.

[Anonymous User]

For anyone looking for an update, I'm the anon OP. I'm ending the billable year (tomorrow) with about 1580 hours. I was called in and told the firm is paying me a full bonus because they like my work and want me to stay. Incidentally, I did not explicitly ask for a bonus - in my last meeting with the relevant partner I sort of just said I know my hours are low, I expect it was because of ramp down / up but I'm hoping that it's not a reflection of my work or something I can fix and assume this won't be the case next year. FWIW he didn't even know my hours were low.

[QContinuum]

For anyone looking for an update, I'm the anon OP. I'm ending the billable year (tomorrow) with about 1580 hours. I was called in and told the firm is paying me a full bonus because they like my work and want me to stay. Incidentally, I did not explicitly ask for a bonus - in my last meeting with the relevant partner I sort of just said I know my hours are low, I expect it was because of ramp down / up but I'm hoping that it's not a reflection of my work or something I can fix and assume this won't be the case next year. FWIW he didn't even know my hours were low.

Sounds like you handled the situation very well. Kudos on the good work and on the bonus! (And thanks for updating us.)