Would you stay or leave? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Good morning all,

I am a first year associate at a small litigation firm (5 attorneys) making 90k in a big market. I've been here about 10 months as an attorney having graduated last year. I'm getting some good autonomy and working hours, but the firm is in disarray as a whole with turnover and organizational dysfunction.

Out of frustration I placed a few applications out last week. A midsize form of about 150 attorneys has reached out to me to ask my salary requirement. The firm seems to be well-run and the reviews I see on Glassdoor speak highly of it for the most part. However, the salary seems to be sitting at around 85-90k, while at my current firm I have been getting the impression that I can make a jump in salary about 10-15k by the end of this year.

If you were in my position, would you stay for the work experience in spite of the administrative issues or move on to a "well-oiled machine"? Any advice would be much appreciated.

[BasilHallward]

Good morning all,

I am a first year associate at a small litigation firm (5 attorneys) making 90k in a big market. I've been here about 10 months as an attorney having graduated last year. I'm getting some good autonomy and working hours, but the firm is in disarray as a whole with turnover and organizational dysfunction.

Out of frustration I placed a few applications out last week. A midsize form of about 150 attorneys has reached out to me to ask my salary requirement. The firm seems to be well-run and the reviews I see on Glassdoor speak highly of it for the most part. However, the salary seems to be sitting at around 85-90k, while at my current firm I have been getting the impression that I can make a jump in salary about 10-15k by the end of this year.

If you were in my position, would you stay for the work experience in spite of the administrative issues or move on to a "well-oiled machine"? Any advice would be much appreciated.

Is the midsize firm insurance defense? I ask because 150 lawyers is a healthy firm and 85-90k is a paltry salary if this firm is also in a major market. I would not base my salary ask from Glassdoor. Try and find some better intel on what the firm actually compensates and what bonus potential exists. Plus, there is nothing crazy about asking for 110-115 and putting the ball in their court. As an aside, don't ever assume a firm is a "well-oiled" machine.

[omar1]

No point in speculating. I would tell the new firm of your desired salary or a salary for which you'd be willing to make the jump. If they give it to you, take it and don't look back. Additionally, how many applications did you send out? If only one or two and one of them already responded, I would probably keep sending out more, but if you sent 100 and only one responded, I would probably be more leaning towards making the jump even if they don't offer you 110 but instead offer 90.

[Anonymous User]

Good morning all,

I am a first year associate at a small litigation firm (5 attorneys) making 90k in a big market. I've been here about 10 months as an attorney having graduated last year. I'm getting some good autonomy and working hours, but the firm is in disarray as a whole with turnover and organizational dysfunction.

Out of frustration I placed a few applications out last week. A midsize form of about 150 attorneys has reached out to me to ask my salary requirement. The firm seems to be well-run and the reviews I see on Glassdoor speak highly of it for the most part. However, the salary seems to be sitting at around 85-90k, while at my current firm I have been getting the impression that I can make a jump in salary about 10-15k by the end of this year.

If you were in my position, would you stay for the work experience in spite of the administrative issues or move on to a "well-oiled machine"? Any advice would be much appreciated.

Is the midsize firm insurance defense? I ask because 150 lawyers is a healthy firm and 85-90k is a paltry salary if this firm is also in a major market. I would not base my salary ask from Glassdoor. Try and find some better intel on what the firm actually compensates and what bonus potential exists. Plus, there is nothing crazy about asking for 110-115 and putting the ball in their court. As an aside, don't ever assume a firm is a "well-oiled" machine.

That's a good call on not assuming anything about the other firm. Yes it is insurance defense.

How would you go about gathering intel? Would it be appropriate to contact former employees?

[Anonymous User]

No point in speculating. I would tell the new firm of your desired salary or a salary for which you'd be willing to make the jump. If they give it to you, take it and don't look back. Additionally, how many applications did you send out? If only one or two and one of them already responded, I would probably keep sending out more, but if you sent 100 and only one responded, I would probably be more leaning towards making the jump even if they don't offer you 110 but instead offer 90.

I sent out 3 applications purely in a moment of extreme frustration (silly, I know). I've been hesitant to apply because I have not been here a full year yet and understand it reflects poorly.

[Hopefullitassociate]

If you're not miserable at the firm, and if you don't think the firm is necessarily in danger of folding, then I would stay. I would say that lateraling within the first year or two should only be reserved for more extreme circumstances. The issue is that your marketability is much lower during the first two years, so your opportunities are likely to be a lot lower. And you don't want to make too many lateral moves, so you should have the mentality that wherever you switch to will be your job for at least a few years. If you truly feel like this larger firm fits all your criteria and that you'll be happier there, then by all means go, but it sounds more like an impulsive decision rather than one where it's a clearly better option. I'd at least do a lot more research on this new firm to see if it's the kind of place where you see yourself for a few years.

[encore1101]

WRT how to gather intel: if you use LinkedIn or something similar, try to look up the firm's name and see if you have any friends of friends who work there and can put you in touch with someone. I've found that most people are willing to talk about their jobs.

[sparty99]

I would apply. You are at the 9 month mark. By the time you get invited to interviews or an offer, it would be 12 months. You work at a 5-person firm so it would be easy to explain why you are leaving. Nonetheless, I would not leave for the same or lower pay. I would not provide a salary expectation either. Make them make the first move. I would not leave for anything less then $110,000. Also, if you are in a big market, why not try big law?

[Anonymous User]

I would apply. You are at the 9 month mark. By the time you get invited to interviews or an offer, it would be 12 months. You work at a 5-person firm so it would be easy to explain why you are leaving. Nonetheless, I would not leave for the same or lower pay. I would not provide a salary expectation either. Make them make the first move. I would not leave for anything less then $110,000. Also, if you are in a big market, why not try big law?

Thanks for the input. I understand that breaking into biglaw from my position is near-impossible. How would you go about doing so? I have seen some listings on Linkedin and my school's job postings that I may apply through.

[Anonymous User]

I would apply. You are at the 9 month mark. By the time you get invited to interviews or an offer, it would be 12 months. You work at a 5-person firm so it would be easy to explain why you are leaving. Nonetheless, I would not leave for the same or lower pay. I would not provide a salary expectation either. Make them make the first move. I would not leave for anything less then $110,000. Also, if you are in a big market, why not try big law?

Thanks for the input. I understand that breaking into biglaw from my position is near-impossible. How would you go about doing so? I have seen some listings on Linkedin and my school's job postings that I may apply through.

I'm in a similar situation as you. Not a 5-person firm, but only a bit bigger. The only difference (and it seems like a significant one here) is that I like my firm. The partners are excellent mentors who will not hesitate to lecture me 1 on 1; their doors are always open for questions (and admittedly some stupid questions from me); and they've given me substantial experience (have already taken a couple depositions, attended hearings, i get a first crack at significant motions/briefs). More importantly, more than half the time I'm not working on insurance defense slip and fall cases. I'm currently making 100k and it's in SF.

Nonetheless, I'm also applying for jobs solely because i am not satisfied with the pay (despite the fact that my submitted "desired salary" was 90k lol). Like you, I have 10 months experience. I'm avoiding these 150 attorney insurance defense firms you're talking about because I think my current position is better than something like Lewis Brisbois/Gordon Rees/wood smith. They have low pay and shit hours. My friends there are miserable.

Also like you, I've only sent out two applications thus far. Have heard nothing yet. They were as a result of recruiters reaching out to me.

[sparty99]

I would apply. You are at the 9 month mark. By the time you get invited to interviews or an offer, it would be 12 months. You work at a 5-person firm so it would be easy to explain why you are leaving. Nonetheless, I would not leave for the same or lower pay. I would not provide a salary expectation either. Make them make the first move. I would not leave for anything less then $110,000. Also, if you are in a big market, why not try big law?

Thanks for the input. I understand that breaking into biglaw from my position is near-impossible. How would you go about doing so? I have seen some listings on Linkedin and my school's job postings that I may apply through.

I would go about doing so by applying to open big law positions or use a recruiter although i find them useless. I went from insurance defense to big law, so it is possible. Also seen people from crappy firms get big law. You owe it to yourself to go from $90k to $160k.

[sparty99]

Is there an update on this story? Where are they now?