Salaries at tax boutiques? (Roberts and Holland, Irvins Phillips, etc.?) Forum

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ThomasLocke

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Salaries at tax boutiques? (Roberts and Holland, Irvins Phillips, etc.?)

Post by ThomasLocke » Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:13 am

Looking for info on the salary scale/bonus structure at the best tax boutiques (Roberts and Holland, Caplin and Drysdale, Irvins Phillips, Miller and Chevalier, Groom Law Group etc.) - unlike their big law competitors, compensation seems like a total black box at these places. Any info greatly appreciated.
(Any info on PPP also appreciated too but I've got some time before I get there!)
Last edited by QContinuum on Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Outed for anon abuse.

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Re: Salaries at tax boutiques? (Roberts and Holland, Irvins Phillips, etc.?)

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:33 pm

I work at one of the above.

I believe salary at Cap Dry and Miller is along the following:

170, 185, 200, 225, then individualized. Bonuses generally range from $15k-$100k, but I believe they’re individualized.

Groom is market salary with very low bonus ($15k for 1900, then an additional $10k for every 100 hours up to 2200 hours or something).

I believe Ivins is market. 1700 billable requirement. No bonus, though. I believe there’s profit sharing though. If you get an offer here, you shouldn’t turn it down. They are super super selective and people rarely leave.

Roberts & Holland starts at 190 and is close to market throughout. I’ve heard bonuses are low. But also a 1700 hour requirement.

No idea regarding PPP. If I had to guess, all of them probably have RPL between $700k-$1m and PPP between $900k-$1.5m. This is all conjecture based on our hourly rates compared to my former biglaw firm. I’d probably say Cap Dry has the highest PPP and Roberts & Holland is the lowest. But I doubt there is a huge variation among the firms.

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Re: Salaries at tax boutiques? (Roberts and Holland, Irvins Phillips, etc.?)

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:11 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I work at one of the above.

I believe salary at Cap Dry and Miller is along the following:

170, 185, 200, 225, then individualized. Bonuses generally range from $15k-$100k, but I believe they’re individualized.

Groom is market salary with very low bonus ($15k for 1900, then an additional $10k for every 100 hours up to 2200 hours or something).

I believe Ivins is market. 1700 billable requirement. No bonus, though. I believe there’s profit sharing though. If you get an offer here, you shouldn’t turn it down. They are super super selective and people rarely leave.

Roberts & Holland starts at 190 and is close to market throughout. I’ve heard bonuses are low. But also a 1700 hour requirement.

No idea regarding PPP. If I had to guess, all of them probably have RPL between $700k-$1m and PPP between $900k-$1.5m. This is all conjecture based on our hourly rates compared to my former biglaw firm. I’d probably say Cap Dry has the highest PPP and Roberts & Holland is the lowest. But I doubt there is a huge variation among the firms.
Could you talk about how the work compares to biglaw tax? Also, what are chances at partner like these days?

ThomasLocke

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Re: Salaries at tax boutiques? (Roberts and Holland, Irvins Phillips, etc.?)

Post by ThomasLocke » Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:59 pm

I also work at one of these. Salaries/bonuses are lower in my experience, and actual hours worked aren’t as great as they make them out to be. When you consider that it’s possible to go through some big law firms (especially in tax) billing 1800-1900 and getting full market compensation (could be 100k more at some levels) lockstep bonus (again 100k more at some levels) benefits (more generous 401k, meals, transportation, tech stipend for phone and home office etc etc), plus the resume boost and exit ops that come with bigger law (both in terms of the range of options and the salaries/prestige that they’ll come with)—hard to swallow making so much less each year.

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Re: Salaries at tax boutiques? (Roberts and Holland, Irvins Phillips, etc.?)

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:24 am

ThomasLocke wrote:I also work at one of these. Salaries/bonuses are lower in my experience, and actual hours worked aren’t as great as they make them out to be. When you consider that it’s possible to go through some big law firms (especially in tax) billing 1800-1900 and getting full market compensation (could be 100k more at some levels) lockstep bonus (again 100k more at some levels) benefits (more generous 401k, meals, transportation, tech stipend for phone and home office etc etc), plus the resume boost and exit ops that come with bigger law (both in terms of the range of options and the salaries/prestige that they’ll come with)—hard to swallow making so much less each year.
Anon poster from above. I agree that the hours are not as good as they market. But I rarely see associates at these types of firms working more than 2100 hours.

Also, the $100k difference is as an 8th year, if that (as mentioned, groom and ivins pay market salary and Miller & Cap Dry pay near market bonus and comparable salary). Some people make it in 8 years, but others take 10-15 years. There is only one tier of partnership.

Also, I guess this is firm dependent and I’m assuming the above is in NY where there are more benefits for associates, but my meal/cab/phone budget is on par with most firms. I don’t get an annual tech package, but I don’t think that’s unusual outside of the V20 or so type of firms.

Also, the 401k thing makes no sense. Aside from a handful of firms, no one matches 401k.

Lastly, the resume boost. I agree with that. Having a large firm on your resume is going to help with exit options.

I wouldn’t recommend necessarily choosing one of the boutiques over a good tax group, but the drop off isn’t as bad as the above is stating

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Anon2468

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Re: Salaries at tax boutiques? (Roberts and Holland, Irvins Phillips, etc.?)

Post by Anon2468 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:29 pm

ThomasLocke wrote:I also work at one of these. Salaries/bonuses are lower in my experience, and actual hours worked aren’t as great as they make them out to be. When you consider that it’s possible to go through some big law firms (especially in tax) billing 1800-1900 and getting full market compensation (could be 100k more at some levels) lockstep bonus (again 100k more at some levels) benefits (more generous 401k, meals, transportation, tech stipend for phone and home office etc etc), plus the resume boost and exit ops that come with bigger law (both in terms of the range of options and the salaries/prestige that they’ll come with)—hard to swallow making so much less each year.
If you don't mind me asking, would you say you get better assignments as compared to your peers in biglaw/government/big4 WNT?

QContinuum

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Re: Salaries at tax boutiques? (Roberts and Holland, Irvins Phillips, etc.?)

Post by QContinuum » Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:46 pm

ThomasLocke wrote:I also work at one of these. Salaries/bonuses are lower in my experience, and actual hours worked aren’t as great as they make them out to be. When you consider that it’s possible to go through some big law firms (especially in tax) billing 1800-1900 and getting full market compensation (could be 100k more at some levels) lockstep bonus (again 100k more at some levels) benefits (more generous 401k, meals, transportation, tech stipend for phone and home office etc etc), plus the resume boost and exit ops that come with bigger law (both in terms of the range of options and the salaries/prestige that they’ll come with)—hard to swallow making so much less each year.
FYI, the above poster also happens to be the OP of this thread. Due to this abuse of the anon feature, I've de-anoned the original post. TLS does not permit the use of anon to facilitate "sockpuppeting."

(If not for the bad-faith "sockpuppeting," the original post would have qualified for anon.)

Anon2468

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Re: Salaries at tax boutiques? (Roberts and Holland, Irvins Phillips, etc.?)

Post by Anon2468 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:15 pm

QContinuum wrote:
ThomasLocke wrote:I also work at one of these. Salaries/bonuses are lower in my experience, and actual hours worked aren’t as great as they make them out to be. When you consider that it’s possible to go through some big law firms (especially in tax) billing 1800-1900 and getting full market compensation (could be 100k more at some levels) lockstep bonus (again 100k more at some levels) benefits (more generous 401k, meals, transportation, tech stipend for phone and home office etc etc), plus the resume boost and exit ops that come with bigger law (both in terms of the range of options and the salaries/prestige that they’ll come with)—hard to swallow making so much less each year.
FYI, the above poster also happens to be the OP of this thread. Due to this abuse of the anon feature, I've de-anoned the original post. TLS does not permit the use of anon to facilitate "sockpuppeting."

(If not for the bad-faith "sockpuppeting," the original post would have qualified for anon.)
lol

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Re: Salaries at tax boutiques? (Roberts and Holland, Irvins Phillips, etc.?)

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:37 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I work at one of the above.

I believe salary at Cap Dry and Miller is along the following:

170, 185, 200, 225, then individualized. Bonuses generally range from $15k-$100k, but I believe they’re individualized.

Groom is market salary with very low bonus ($15k for 1900, then an additional $10k for every 100 hours up to 2200 hours or something).

I believe Ivins is market. 1700 billable requirement. No bonus, though. I believe there’s profit sharing though. If you get an offer here, you shouldn’t turn it down. They are super super selective and people rarely leave.

Roberts & Holland starts at 190 and is close to market throughout. I’ve heard bonuses are low. But also a 1700 hour requirement.

No idea regarding PPP. If I had to guess, all of them probably have RPL between $700k-$1m and PPP between $900k-$1.5m. This is all conjecture based on our hourly rates compared to my former biglaw firm. I’d probably say Cap Dry has the highest PPP and Roberts & Holland is the lowest. But I doubt there is a huge variation among the firms.
Could you talk about how the work compares to biglaw tax? Also, what are chances at partner like these days?
Also interested in this. And thanks anon for the info above.

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Re: Salaries at tax boutiques? (Roberts and Holland, Irvins Phillips, etc.?)

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:46 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I work at one of the above.

I believe salary at Cap Dry and Miller is along the following:

170, 185, 200, 225, then individualized. Bonuses generally range from $15k-$100k, but I believe they’re individualized.

Groom is market salary with very low bonus ($15k for 1900, then an additional $10k for every 100 hours up to 2200 hours or something).

I believe Ivins is market. 1700 billable requirement. No bonus, though. I believe there’s profit sharing though. If you get an offer here, you shouldn’t turn it down. They are super super selective and people rarely leave.

Roberts & Holland starts at 190 and is close to market throughout. I’ve heard bonuses are low. But also a 1700 hour requirement.

No idea regarding PPP. If I had to guess, all of them probably have RPL between $700k-$1m and PPP between $900k-$1.5m. This is all conjecture based on our hourly rates compared to my former biglaw firm. I’d probably say Cap Dry has the highest PPP and Roberts & Holland is the lowest. But I doubt there is a huge variation among the firms.
Could you talk about how the work compares to biglaw tax? Also, what are chances at partner like these days?
Also interested in this. And thanks anon for the info above.
Yeah, can the actual boutique tax lawyers who posted ITT provide more insight?

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Re: Salaries at tax boutiques? (Roberts and Holland, Irvins Phillips, etc.?)

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:29 pm

The work varies based on the firm you go to.

Some are heavily involved in tax policy and controversy-focused. These are areas that big firms probably don’t focus on, so the experience is not really comparable.

The firms that do corporate tax, the work is going to still be more focused on specific areas of tax. It’s hard to do as much dealwork when you don’t have a corporate department. You will mostly act as outside/co-counsel to large firms that don’t have the same expertise in the specific area.

Partnership track is probably as long or longer because there’s only equity partnership.

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Re: Salaries at tax boutiques? (Roberts and Holland, Irvins Phillips, etc.?)

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:04 pm

Anonymous User wrote:The work varies based on the firm you go to.

Some are heavily involved in tax policy and controversy-focused. These are areas that big firms probably don’t focus on, so the experience is not really comparable.

The firms that do corporate tax, the work is going to still be more focused on specific areas of tax. It’s hard to do as much dealwork when you don’t have a corporate department. You will mostly act as outside/co-counsel to large firms that don’t have the same expertise in the specific area.

Partnership track is probably as long or longer because there’s only equity partnership.
How about face time and vacation time?

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