Lateral Regret Forum

[Anonymous User]

Recently lateraled and think I hate it here. Is this normal? How long should you wait it out if it’s truly bad?

[Anonymous User]

Recently lateraled and think I hate it here. Is this normal? How long should you wait it out if it’s truly bad?

In same boat. Lateraled 5 months ago and just not getting the type of work I was expecting plus not really vibing with the rest of the partners and associates I work with. Considering waiting until review time and seeing how that goes then figuring out next steps.

[QContinuum]

Recently lateraled and think I hate it here. Is this normal? How long should you wait it out if it’s truly bad?

If you're genuinely miserable (and not just dealing with the inherent initial stress of acclimating to a new workplace, especially after settling into a familiar groove at your old job), then you may wish to consider "bouncing" back to your old job (assuming you were reasonably happy there). If you left on good terms, they may be willing to take you back. If you wish to "bounce" back, your chances will be better the quicker you act (as the quicker you act, the less likely they've already permanently hired/reassigned someone else to do your job).

Of course, if you left your old job because you were miserable there, then don't bounce back. Rather, try to make the best of it and stick it out for a while to see if things improve.

[Anonymous User]

To the first two posters: Thanks for posting.

Would you mind saying (1) why you left your previous firms and (2) how the new firms compare to your previous firms?

I'd like to explore a lateral move, but I don't know whether the grass is actually greener at another firm.

[nealric]

Recently lateraled and think I hate it here. Is this normal? How long should you wait it out if it’s truly bad?

Why did you decide to lateral in the first place? Were you unhappy there, or lured by some new promises that have not been fulfilled? If the former, you need to consider seriously whether it is biglaw itself, or perhaps your practice, or perhaps something idiosyncratic to the two firms. If the latter, it might be worth calling your old firm to see if they'd take you back.

[Anonymous User]

OP here. New firm pays more and was hoping to get more hands on experience. But, several partners here and 1 in particular are extremely difficult to work with. For first time have anxiety coming into work. Liked old firm a lot but was concerned I wasn’t getting a ton of training—they were a little too hands off. But, the people were a lot better. Both biglaw, new firm is higher ranked/market pay.

[wishywashy]

OP here. New firm pays more and was hoping to get more hands on experience. But, several partners here and 1 in particular are extremely difficult to work with. For first time have anxiety coming into work. Liked old firm a lot but was concerned I wasn’t getting a ton of training—they were a little too hands off. But, the people were a lot better. Both biglaw, new firm is higher ranked/market pay.

Any chance there are others that lateraled but have been there a while you could probe for info on how to deal with those partners? What about associates that did not lateral but are nevertheless familiar with those partners?

Might also be slow on giving you big solo work because they are trying to see your work quality (lateral stigma; if I give them work they might just bail and snag my client on the way out; etc.).

I would cautiously ask around for tips on dealing with the folks you are having problems with.

[Anonymous User]

I lateraled from a small firm to a big firm for many of the same reasons as you, OP: pay, experience, quality of the work (more sophisticated), etc. After about 3 months I realized I couldn’t handle the screaming partner that gave me most of my assignments. I looked for a new job and ultimately landed one in about 8 months. I started looking right at that 3 month mark. I certainly fielded some interview questions about why I wanted to leave. I just explained the place wasn’t the right fit and I think most people got it. I had my fair share of rejections, obviously. I started getting interviews within a month of sending out apps.

My advice is to never stay in a toxic environment. Start looking for a new job even if you’ve only been there for a short time. There’s no reason to stay somewhere just because you’re new.

[sidesalad]

OP here. New firm pays more and was hoping to get more hands on experience. But, several partners here and 1 in particular are extremely difficult to work with. For first time have anxiety coming into work. Liked old firm a lot but was concerned I wasn’t getting a ton of training—they were a little too hands off. But, the people were a lot better. Both biglaw, new firm is higher ranked/market pay.

You should seriously consider bouncing back to your old firm. Not sure what rankings you are basing the "higher ranked" descriptor on, but I doubt it is anything so meaningful as to persist in a truly unpleasant work environment. If you liked your old firm a lot, consider whether you could see yourself there longer term and, if so, whether you should try to go back.

[Anonymous User]

As someone who’s about to give notice at a new firm that didn’t work out, does anyone have any recommendations for how to go about this, i.e., how to word giving notice? I have an offer for a new job and need to give notice soon, but I’ve only been at the new firm for a few months. (I actually like most of the people here but decided I’ve put in enough time in biglaw.). Because I’ve only been here for a short time it feels a bit awkward (and objectively is), but I assume others have been in this position.

[mvp99]

don’t feel Bad or awkward they would fire you in a heartbeat if they wanted to.

[sparty99]

As someone who’s about to give notice at a new firm that didn’t work out, does anyone have any recommendations for how to go about this, i.e., how to word giving notice? I have an offer for a new job and need to give notice soon, but I’ve only been at the new firm for a few months. (I actually like most of the people here but decided I’ve put in enough time in biglaw.). Because I’ve only been here for a short time it feels a bit awkward (and objectively is), but I assume others have been in this position.

I would not care either. How long have you worked at the new firm? Where are you going (generally speaking)? In-house?

[papermateflair]

As someone who’s about to give notice at a new firm that didn’t work out, does anyone have any recommendations for how to go about this, i.e., how to word giving notice? I have an offer for a new job and need to give notice soon, but I’ve only been at the new firm for a few months. (I actually like most of the people here but decided I’ve put in enough time in biglaw.). Because I’ve only been here for a short time it feels a bit awkward (and objectively is), but I assume others have been in this position.

The advice I was given when I lateraled (although not a quick bounce like this) was to give notice first to a reasonable person, preferably in a position of power, and to ask them (1) for advice on how to handle giving notice to everyone else (specifically any partners you think will be an issue), and (2) to help you make sure that the transition goes smoothly. This helps you get THAT person on board - which is what you want because when the partners are all griping about how they hired you and you left 3 months later, if this person is on board they'll be there to back you up.

That said, because you haven't been there long, they're really not going to remember you in 2 years anyway, so don't over think it.

[Anonymous User]

As someone who’s about to give notice at a new firm that didn’t work out, does anyone have any recommendations for how to go about this, i.e., how to word giving notice? I have an offer for a new job and need to give notice soon, but I’ve only been at the new firm for a few months. (I actually like most of the people here but decided I’ve put in enough time in biglaw.). Because I’ve only been here for a short time it feels a bit awkward (and objectively is), but I assume others have been in this position.

I would not care either. How long have you worked at the new firm? Where are you going (generally speaking)? In-house?

Without giving up too much information, I’ve been at the new firm for 3-5 months and I’m going to work for gov’t (not fed).

[Anonymous User]

OP again. If this was not clear, the new gig is pushing me and teaching me a lot, and I have more responsibility and guidance than my previous firm. However, a small group of partners have been less than forgiving of minor mistakes and have blamed me for things out of my control. The work is also as a whole less interesting and less ability to pick and choose what cases I want to be on. The old firm had much friendlier people and was also well respected, but the pay was far under market for the hours worked, but I genuinely enjoyed going to work everyday, and could choose for the most part what cases I wanted to be staffed on. So the choice is—stick it out at the more prestigious firm making more money, getting more hands on experience, but dealing with anxiety and pretty mean partners along the way, OR go back to the original firm where I know they would gladly take me back (several said as much when I left and made me promise to reach out should this gig not work out), but take the comp hit for the foreseeable future and less guidance and responsibility on projects. Also for reference, sitting on $240000 in student loans, so money does actually matter unfortunately.

[sparty99]

OP again. If this was not clear, the new gig is pushing me and teaching me a lot, and I have more responsibility and guidance than my previous firm. However, a small group of partners have been less than forgiving of minor mistakes and have blamed me for things out of my control. The work is also as a whole less interesting and less ability to pick and choose what cases I want to be on. The old firm had much friendlier people and was also well respected, but the pay was far under market for the hours worked, but I genuinely enjoyed going to work everyday, and could choose for the most part what cases I wanted to be staffed on. So the choice is—stick it out at the more prestigious firm making more money, getting more hands on experience, but dealing with anxiety and pretty mean partners along the way, OR go back to the original firm where I know they would gladly take me back (several said as much when I left and made me promise to reach out should this gig not work out), but take the comp hit for the foreseeable future and less guidance and responsibility on projects. Also for reference, sitting on $240000 in student loans, so money does actually matter unfortunately.

With that high debt load, I would try staying for at least a year. Even at a big law $170,000 salary it would take 3 years to pay off $240k.

[Anonymous User]

Pay differential increases with time—first year is the difference of only about 20k from previous job, but every year after that it’s pretty substantial—we’re talking I’d have to be a 6th or 7th year at my old firm to make what I would make next year as a third year. Which is why sticking it out for one year doesn’t really do much in terms of big financial gain, but long term its huge.

[sparty99]

Is there an update on this story? Where are they now?

[TigerIsBack]

Pay differential increases with time—first year is the difference of only about 20k from previous job, but every year after that it’s pretty substantial—we’re talking I’d have to be a 6th or 7th year at my old firm to make what I would make next year as a third year. Which is why sticking it out for one year doesn’t really do much in terms of big financial gain, but long term its huge.

Maybe the salary isn't a crazy big difference for a 3rd year, but even a $30k salary different (~$18k after taxes) is enough to pay off an additional $18k in loans before going back to the old firm, and if you can stick around long enough to get the bonus for a 3rd year from the new firm, that's another $50k (~$30k after taxes) that you can use to pay down the loans even more significantly before bouncing back to the old firm.

Honestly, I'd recommend trying to get a couple years of great experience from the current firm and then see if you want to bounce back to the old firm. Just make sure you don't let lifestyle creep happen as you get raises at the current firm and just use every cent of that extra cash to lower your debt load before going back to your old firm.

Option 3: Explore the lateral market for some other firm that might have great training and help lessen your anxiety if you'd be working for better people. I recently lateraled and ended up at a place that is way better than my old firm on pretty much every front, so it can work out for you.

[Anonymous User]

This thread has become relevant to me. I'm in a similar boat to OP. Was at a well-respected but significantly below-market firm previously. While there were people I genuinely liked and I'd seen opportunities for substantive experience, the work dried up for a sustained period. The slowdown (others left my practice group) combined with the pay sacrifice (I have $200k in loans) just seemed too hard to swallow.

So I lateraled to a more prestigious firm reputed to have a great culture, early at bats, etc. I couldn't be more miserable. The work has been shit -- almost all menial tasks. The partners have been shit -- blaming me for minor mistakes, throwing me under the bus for "off-point" work product when they left out key background or framing on an assignment, and holding against me incongruities in working styles or communication preferences. To top it all off, despite coming in 100 hours over the bonus requirement, the firm's individualized comp system will yield me a below-market bonus on the order of what I would have received at my old shop (i.e., less than 1/3 of the market for my seniority level). I wish I'd never lateraled.