Miserable Partner War Stories Forum

[Anonymous User]

We all know certain biglaw partners can suck, but just how bad? Currently dealing with one that regularly throws me under the bus in front of others, and is just generally a miserable human to work with. Post your worst.

[LaLiLuLeLo]

In my experience the most insidious type of partner that’s rarely talked about on these fora is the bootlocker partner.

This is the partner that has no spine and is desperate to please the client and look like the smartest person in the room. This partner will volunteer to meet deadlines nobody asked for (read: nobody needed it by Monday, but they’re so desperate to impress they volunteer on Friday night to turn something by Monday). This partner will “anticipate” the client’s needs and will set you down bizarre rabbit holes to answer questions nobody asked or draft whole agreements that are never used. This partner is so worried about their perception they insist on reading and editing the language of menial things like emails even though you’re way too senior for that.

I have never unnecessarily worked later or on weekends more than for this type of partner. Scream at me all you want just don’t make me work more than I need to.

[Anonymous User]

We all know certain biglaw partners can suck, but just how bad? Currently dealing with one that regularly throws me under the bus in front of others, and is just generally a miserable human to work with. Post your worst.

First partner I worked for as a first year was pretty rough. Just one mild example, I missed a comma in a comp chart about 20 pages in and received a call telling me to fix it. Five seconds later he called back to tell me not to bother picking up his comments because he had thrown the draft in the trash. Turns out the only comment was the comma but he couldn't resist getting a jab in. At about 5:00 PM every day he would transition from his desk to an easy chair that faced straight down the hall that I sat in. Best way to guarantee extra (and needless) work was to have him see me heading for the elevator bank before he did. Guaranteed email by the time I reached the bottom floor with something that required me to head back upstairs.

Funny thing in retrospect is how much I learned from working with him. Not every partner has redeeming qualities, but his words (criticism often but sometimes genuine advice) echo in my ears years later as I deal with situations. He ultimately tried to convince me to keep working for him, but life took me other directions. Take-away is that you have to put up with the partners, which can be miserable, but you should still try to glean what you can from them. Most of the time they made it to the top for a reason.

[QContinuum]

In my experience the most insidious type of partner that’s rarely talked about on these fora is the bootlocker partner.

This is the partner that has no spine and is desperate to please the client and look like the smartest person in the room. This partner will volunteer to meet deadlines nobody asked for (read: nobody needed it by Monday, but they’re so desperate to impress they volunteer on Friday night to turn something by Monday). This partner will “anticipate” the client’s needs and will set you down bizarre rabbit holes to answer questions nobody asked or draft whole agreements that are never used. This partner is so worried about their perception they insist on reading and editing the language of menial things like emails even though you’re way too senior for that.

I have never unnecessarily worked later or on weekends more than for this type of partner. Scream at me all you want just don’t make me work more than I need to.

Can't agree more. Add in that "my" "bootlocker partner" also had a habit of chewing me out for billing too many hours (a direct result of the bizarre rabbit holes he forced me to go down!).

To this day I find nothing more demeaning than having menial emails edited. I have been yelled at. I have been thrown out of offices. I have had physical objects thrown at me. None of these trigger me as much as being required to submit every last minor email for editing.

[Raiden]

To this day, I cannot understand how it can be okay for a supervisor to throw a physical object at their employee. This has never happened to me and people mention it so nonchalantly. Like that's a misdemeanor crime. What are they throwing, paperweights or paper clips?

[icansortofmath]

At a consulting office in Asia, I saw papers flying across the office. A particular secretary was apparently the the queen of the office (rumors were she was screwing the MD) and threw fits pretty regularly. To be fair, apparently she was doing her boss’ job most of the time.

Crumple paper into a ball if you need long distance ammo across the office floor. Boxes of tissue if you need heavy artillery. Just throwing an entire stack across the room, law professor style, and making the associate pick up the pieces of garbage he/she wrote works too but that causes collateral damage so reserve that for truly garbage work. If person is close, just throwing the papers at his feet also work. The point is humiliation and venting your anger and to cast a cloud of fear over your underlings.

You can actually hurt people with staplers and other hard objects so let’s not do that.

[QContinuum]

To this day, I cannot understand how it can be okay for a supervisor to throw a physical object at their employee. This has never happened to me and people mention it so nonchalantly. Like that's a misdemeanor crime. What are they throwing, paperweights or paper clips?

Is it okay, most certainly not. Does it happen, most certainly yes.

In my case, it was apparent that there was no actual intent to hit me. If I thought there was an actual intent to physically harm me, you betcha my next stop would've been the nearest police station.

Of course I would never act the way that man acted toward me. It's a generational thing with some of these older folks, like some of the sexist crap I've overheard when old, powerful men think no woman's in earshot.

[misterjames]

In my experience the most insidious type of partner that’s rarely talked about on these fora is the bootlocker partner.

This is the partner that has no spine and is desperate to please the client and look like the smartest person in the room. This partner will volunteer to meet deadlines nobody asked for (read: nobody needed it by Monday, but they’re so desperate to impress they volunteer on Friday night to turn something by Monday). This partner will “anticipate” the client’s needs and will set you down bizarre rabbit holes to answer questions nobody asked or draft whole agreements that are never used. This partner is so worried about their perception they insist on reading and editing the language of menial things like emails even though you’re way too senior for that.

I have never unnecessarily worked later or on weekends more than for this type of partner. Scream at me all you want just don’t make me work more than I need to.

Holy shit this. I had a partner at my prior firm that would volunteer her (and my) Saturdays to do shit that wasn't even important. One example, we were sitting with a client before a meeting began and the client casually mentions he was considering revising a certain policy, wasn't sure if it was a priority but had been thinking about it, making it pretty clear he was just talking, not requesting anything. Partner chimes in "oh we can do that for you this Saturday." What the fuck? Why? Most sane people hear that and think you're out of your mind. A priority project with a tight deadline, that's when Saturday work is necessary, not some random thing that isn't even being discussed seriously.

[icansortofmath]

In my experience the most insidious type of partner that’s rarely talked about on these fora is the bootlocker partner.

This is the partner that has no spine and is desperate to please the client and look like the smartest person in the room. This partner will volunteer to meet deadlines nobody asked for (read: nobody needed it by Monday, but they’re so desperate to impress they volunteer on Friday night to turn something by Monday). This partner will “anticipate” the client’s needs and will set you down bizarre rabbit holes to answer questions nobody asked or draft whole agreements that are never used. This partner is so worried about their perception they insist on reading and editing the language of menial things like emails even though you’re way too senior for that.

I have never unnecessarily worked later or on weekends more than for this type of partner. Scream at me all you want just don’t make me work more than I need to.

Elon Musk?

[PMan99]

In my experience the most insidious type of partner that’s rarely talked about on these fora is the bootlocker partner.

This is the partner that has no spine and is desperate to please the client and look like the smartest person in the room. This partner will volunteer to meet deadlines nobody asked for (read: nobody needed it by Monday, but they’re so desperate to impress they volunteer on Friday night to turn something by Monday). This partner will “anticipate” the client’s needs and will set you down bizarre rabbit holes to answer questions nobody asked or draft whole agreements that are never used. This partner is so worried about their perception they insist on reading and editing the language of menial things like emails even though you’re way too senior for that.

I have never unnecessarily worked later or on weekends more than for this type of partner. Scream at me all you want just don’t make me work more than I need to.

I worked for a service partner who would do this for the rainmaker above him. That was by far the worst experience I've had in biglaw. I can much more easily understand acting like that for real clients. Luckily he ended up getting booted after a couple of years because he caused an absurd amount of write downs and produced crap work product (as managing like this tends to do).

[Anonymous User]

Anonymous since still at firm and may be outed on here.

I had just started in a brand new practice (a junior), and had less than 3 weeks experience. I was staffed on the deal with no mid/senior shield and was basically put on a rush to churn some paperwork for the partner. I had no experience, I had already stayed up all night prior (he didn't know this, but I did send an email out to him at 3am and another at 9am, with revisions) and had gotten sick (didn't till partner the latter, but I had been in meetings with him and everyone there asked me if I was okay, and that I didn't sound well . . . not him). Anyway, it's 2am after I had already spent a previous night up getting his docs ready. Oh and this was around Mother's Day, so I had to cancel that to make it work, but not a big issue. I'm a junior, naturally I don't know what I'm doing. That doesn't seem clear to him, who is berating me over the phone over how I could not possibly know this, how what I was saying sounded like retarded.

He is cursing and pushing me to send asap the docs that now I can prepare in 20 mins, but as a junior just having started in the practice recently, was confused as crap about what I was doing, what the client (who used heavy business-speak I had not gotten accustomed yet) was saying. The calls are repeated: why it's not out, "what the fuck is the hold up". I'm sending other communications out to our client, and it contains some typographical errors (did I mention I had been up since the night prior?). I am basically breaking down alone in the office as these calls come in. I finally got everything out, as necessary. Client wasn't prepared to sign off and wouldn't have seen anything until the next day anyway.

I found the whole situation to be just an awful case of abuse by a higher-up. It really left me shocked for a while. I don't think this is remotely the worst kind of partner story, though, and maybe I didn't come off too badly by just basically getting screamed at? But also I feel like a lot of associates try and excuse shit like this with "Oh, it wasn't that bad, tbh!"

[abiglawyer]

Anonymous since still at firm and may be outed on here.

I had just started in a brand new practice (a junior), and had less than 3 weeks experience. I was staffed on the deal with no mid/senior shield and was basically put on a rush to churn some paperwork for the partner. I had no experience, I had already stayed up all night prior (he didn't know this, but I did send an email out to him at 3am and another at 9am, with revisions) and had gotten sick (didn't till partner the latter, but I had been in meetings with him and everyone there asked me if I was okay, and that I didn't sound well . . . not him). Anyway, it's 2am after I had already spent a previous night up getting his docs ready. Oh and this was around Mother's Day, so I had to cancel that to make it work, but not a big issue. I'm a junior, naturally I don't know what I'm doing. That doesn't seem clear to him, who is berating me over the phone over how I could not possibly know this, how what I was saying sounded like retarded.

He is cursing and pushing me to send asap the docs that now I can prepare in 20 mins, but as a junior just having started in the practice recently, was confused as crap about what I was doing, what the client (who used heavy business-speak I had not gotten accustomed yet) was saying. The calls are repeated: why it's not out, "what the fuck is the hold up". I'm sending other communications out to our client, and it contains some typographical errors (did I mention I had been up since the night prior?). I am basically breaking down alone in the office as these calls come in. I finally got everything out, as necessary. Client wasn't prepared to sign off and wouldn't have seen anything until the next day anyway.

I found the whole situation to be just an awful case of abuse by a higher-up. It really left me shocked for a while. I don't think this is remotely the worst kind of partner story, though, and maybe I didn't come off too badly by just basically getting screamed at? But also I feel like a lot of associates try and excuse shit like this with "Oh, it wasn't that bad, tbh!"

Most of the times I “screwed up” as a very junior associate are now, looking back nearing the end of my third year, very clearly situations where the partner or senior associate either unreasonably assumed a competence I couldn’t have had, or just couldn’t be bothered to give me the feedback or guidance I needed to get the job done. Of course in the moment I was convinced I was an idiot/should have known better.

Part of this may have been due to the fact that a partner I often used to work with had a management style of delegating just enough to cover his ass when his associates inevitably made a mistake due to lack of oversight. He just didn’t want to do the work of either the assignment itself or the oversight.

[Anonymous User]

Anonymous since still at firm and may be outed on here.

I had just started in a brand new practice (a junior), and had less than 3 weeks experience. I was staffed on the deal with no mid/senior shield and was basically put on a rush to churn some paperwork for the partner. I had no experience, I had already stayed up all night prior (he didn't know this, but I did send an email out to him at 3am and another at 9am, with revisions) and had gotten sick (didn't till partner the latter, but I had been in meetings with him and everyone there asked me if I was okay, and that I didn't sound well . . . not him). Anyway, it's 2am after I had already spent a previous night up getting his docs ready. Oh and this was around Mother's Day, so I had to cancel that to make it work, but not a big issue. I'm a junior, naturally I don't know what I'm doing. That doesn't seem clear to him, who is berating me over the phone over how I could not possibly know this, how what I was saying sounded like retarded.

He is cursing and pushing me to send asap the docs that now I can prepare in 20 mins, but as a junior just having started in the practice recently, was confused as crap about what I was doing, what the client (who used heavy business-speak I had not gotten accustomed yet) was saying. The calls are repeated: why it's not out, "what the fuck is the hold up". I'm sending other communications out to our client, and it contains some typographical errors (did I mention I had been up since the night prior?). I am basically breaking down alone in the office as these calls come in. I finally got everything out, as necessary. Client wasn't prepared to sign off and wouldn't have seen anything until the next day anyway.

I found the whole situation to be just an awful case of abuse by a higher-up. It really left me shocked for a while. I don't think this is remotely the worst kind of partner story, though, and maybe I didn't come off too badly by just basically getting screamed at? But also I feel like a lot of associates try and excuse shit like this with "Oh, it wasn't that bad, tbh!"

Most of the times I “screwed up” as a very junior associate are now, looking back nearing the end of my third year, very clearly situations where the partner or senior associate either unreasonably assumed a competence I couldn’t have had, or just couldn’t be bothered to give me the feedback or guidance I needed to get the job done. Of course in the moment I was convinced I was an idiot/should have known better.

Part of this may have been due to the fact that a partner I often used to work with had a management style of delegating just enough to cover his ass when his associates inevitably made a mistake due to lack of oversight. He just didn’t want to do the work of either the assignment itself or the oversight.

It's really one of the most frustrating things about starting off in this career: people with 6-10 or 20 years of experience not remembering what it's like to not have years of dealwork experience in your head. That mental precedent base is entire lacking in a junior, and it makes impossible to have any "intuition" (especially since how much second-guessing is involved in the whole process).

[icansortofmath]

I mean to be honest that’s true with a lot of high paying professions. Ibanking, consulting, and even accounting, all tend to just throw juniors into the deep end and make them learn on the job.

[speed_the_loot]

Most of the times I “screwed up” as a very junior associate are now, looking back nearing the end of my third year, very clearly situations where the partner or senior associate either unreasonably assumed a competence I couldn’t have had, or just couldn’t be bothered to give me the feedback or guidance I needed to get the job done. Of course in the moment I was convinced I was an idiot/should have known better.

Part of this may have been due to the fact that a partner I often used to work with had a management style of delegating just enough to cover his ass when his associates inevitably made a mistake due to lack of oversight. He just didn’t want to do the work of either the assignment itself or the oversight.

Agreed. I'm always surprised when I hear attorneys trash other attorneys' work product, etc. on deals--particularly, in the case of juniors--when 9 times out of 10 it's a lack of management, caving in to unreasonable client demands and the like. Failure is as much a product of set up as it is individual competence.

[Excellent117]

Some of you seem to put up with being screamed at way too willingly.

[TheoO]

Some of you seem to put up with being screamed at way too willingly.

That debt...

[TheoO]

I mean to be honest that’s true with a lot of high paying professions. Ibanking, consulting, and even accounting, all tend to just throw juniors into the deep end and make them learn on the job.

That's inevitable in any "trainee" based job. The issue is partners/associates not having empathy/managing expectations/managing generally

[icansortofmath]

I agree. That’s where the high paying high pressure part comes in. The seniors/partners themselves are under pressure and don’t really have time.

[abiglawyer]

I agree. That’s where the high paying high pressure part comes in. The seniors/partners themselves are under pressure and don’t really have time.

Love how predictable it is that someone in these threads will always chime in with a variation on, “Well, that’s what they pay you for.”

We get it, man. We’re just commiserating.

[icansortofmath]

I didn’t say that.

Managing up is a very useful skill. Part of managing up is understanding why your boss/seniors act like assholes.

[sidesalad]

We all know certain biglaw partners can suck, but just how bad? Currently dealing with one that regularly throws me under the bus in front of others, and is just generally a miserable human to work with. Post your worst.

First partner I worked for as a first year was pretty rough. Just one mild example, I missed a comma in a comp chart about 20 pages in and received a call telling me to fix it. Five seconds later he called back to tell me not to bother picking up his comments because he had thrown the draft in the trash. Turns out the only comment was the comma but he couldn't resist getting a jab in. At about 5:00 PM every day he would transition from his desk to an easy chair that faced straight down the hall that I sat in. Best way to guarantee extra (and needless) work was to have him see me heading for the elevator bank before he did. Guaranteed email by the time I reached the bottom floor with something that required me to head back upstairs.

Funny thing in retrospect is how much I learned from working with him. Not every partner has redeeming qualities, but his words (criticism often but sometimes genuine advice) echo in my ears years later as I deal with situations. He ultimately tried to convince me to keep working for him, but life took me other directions. Take-away is that you have to put up with the partners, which can be miserable, but you should still try to glean what you can from them. Most of the time they made it to the top for a reason.

I had a similar experience to the last point. Spent the first several years in biglaw working for someone who was a true tyrant -- a screamer, took issue with everything, constant unnecessary (or what seemed like unnecessary) fire drills. It was not fun, and almost drove me out of biglaw altogether. But looking back (more senior now) I actually learned a ton from that particular partner; things that I know without a doubt have made me a much better lawyer today. In no way does that excuse the behavior, which really isn't acceptable. It's just to say that most of these partners -- even the awful one -- got to where they are for a reason, and you might be surprised how much you end up learning from them. It's perverse in a way.

[Anonymous User]

To this day I find nothing more demeaning than having menial emails edited. I have been yelled at. I have been thrown out of offices. I have had physical objects thrown at me. None of these trigger me as much as being required to submit every last minor email for editing.

This is honestly the worst. The client does not care if I write:

Let me know if you have any questions or would like to discuss.

vs.

Please let me know if you have any additional questions or would like to discuss further.

The value of the time wasted in our email exchange, markup, and correction will exceed any benefit to the client or our long-term ability to retain that client.

[dabigchina]

I didn’t say that.

Managing up is a very useful skill. Part of managing up is understanding why your boss/seniors act like assholes.

No offense, but aren't you a summer?

I had a lot of experience in accounting before I left. I worked with notoriously difficult partners and senior managers and I was well respected, so I'm not some delicate flower with no real world experience. I'll still never forget the times when a shitty partner at my firm screamed at me for minor typos the second day on the job.

Telling associates to "lol git gud and manage up" doesn't make sense. The reason some partners act like assholes is because they are assholes and they can get away with it.

[LaLiLuLeLo]

I didn’t say that.

Managing up is a very useful skill. Part of managing up is understanding why your boss/seniors act like assholes.

No offense, but aren't you a summer?

Think they work in Big 4 and never did biglaw beyond summering, so lol @ people who have never even worked at a firm telling others to git gud and manage up.

Yes, there are similarities but still. It’s not the same just because you’re at an ibank or big 4 or whatever