Below Median at a T14 Forum

[Anonymous User]

I just finished my second semester 1L year at a lower t14 and I did not do well. I did pretty badly that I'm now below median. Median here is around a 3.35 and I'm at a 3.28. How badly screwed am I for Big Law? Do I even have a chance at AJF? Should I just forego Big Law completely? Please be honest with me.

[The Lsat Airbender]

I might start sweating if you were at GULC specifically (FYI your post sorta gives away your school and you probably shouldn't be posting the exact median online) but even there you'd have perfectly reasonable chances if you bid intelligently and interview well. You have, like, one more B on your transcript than your classmates do.

[2013]

Being barely below median at Cornell is fine. Just don’t expect to get Cravath.

[HillandHollow]

I don't know why people are going out of their way to try to out OP's school when OP obviously didn't intend to identify it. Cornell is not the only T-14 with a median around 3.35. It isn't even the only T-14 with a median AT 3.35.

[TheatreofDreams]

Below median is actually a decent spot to be in at a T-14. Generally speaking, for OCI it doesn't really matter if you're bottom 40% - 25%. There is a range of firms that are NOT grade selective and you'll want to target those.

Prob won't get any V-10s but that's not really an issue.

[2013]

I don't know why people are going out of their way to try to out OP's school when OP obviously didn't intend to identify it. Cornell is not the only T-14 with a median around 3.35. It isn't even the only T-14 with a median AT 3.35.

OP mentioned AJF. Everyone on this thread knows that the generic language for it is OCI.

[beeoBoop]

Below median is actually a decent spot to be in at a T-14. Generally speaking, for OCI it doesn't really matter if you're bottom 40% - 25%. There is a range of firms that are NOT grade selective and you'll want to target those.

Prob won't get any V-10s but that's not really an issue.

I this is overstating it. Biglaw is attainable below median for non-urm. I dont think it's a decent spot to be in though. However at 3.28, you are so close to median that you're basically a median student.

It would be different if you had, say a 3.1. I think you're fine, just target firms with large classes in NYC

[icansortofmath]

3.28 may be technically below median but you’re basically at median at Cornell and therefore fine. You can even try reaching for a V10 or 2 (not Cravath and only for those with big offices) if you think you’re a particularly good fit or got a connection.

[Anonymous User]

In a similar position to you OP. I have exactly a 3.35. Does this put me exactly at median? I couldn't find our median anywhere. I've been panicked since grades came out, thinking that my hopes of getting biglaw are gone. Do I still have a decent chance? I don't care about prestige at all. I just want a firm job somewhere.

[UVA2B]

For posters worrying about being median/slightly below, you need to maintain some perspective on where you sit. Regardless of T14, you are in a position to get a job out of OCI/AJF/etc. You're within a standard deviation of the median, and while grades can be a determining factor for some jobs and firms, it doesn’t necessarily preclude you from most jobs. And equally important, the responsibility falls on you even more to research and figure out where you can place based on your GPA, and if you bid smartly, you very well could find yourself in a position to reject offers to respect NALP rules.

Being slightly below median at a T14 isn’t a death sentence, but it does require you focus your job hunt more acutely. Waste too many bids on Cravath and Williams & Connolly, you might deserve to strike out. But if you read the data from your career services and gauge your record against those hiring patterns accordingly, and assuming you interview well, you’ll find yourself with offers, and also importantly, you might find an opportunity to make decisions based on personal preference and fit. But if you navigate smartly and only get a single offer, you’re still in a great spot to start your career.

[Anonymous User]

For posters worrying about being median/slightly below, you need to maintain some perspective on where you sit. Regardless of T14, you are in a position to get a job out of OCI/AJF/etc. You're within a standard deviation of the median, and while grades can be a determining factor for some jobs and firms, it doesn’t necessarily preclude you from most jobs. And equally important, the responsibility falls on you even more to research and figure out where you can place based on your GPA, and if you bid smartly, you very well could find yourself in a position to reject offers to respect NALP rules.

Being slightly below median at a T14 isn’t a death sentence, but it does require you focus your job hunt more acutely. Waste too many bids on Cravath and Williams & Connolly, you might deserve to strike out. But if you read the data from your career services and gauge your record against those hiring patterns accordingly, and assuming you interview well, you’ll find yourself with offers, and also importantly, you might find an opportunity to make decisions based on personal preference and fit. But if you navigate smartly and only get a single offer, you’re still in a great spot to start your career.

I know I've read to focus on firms with large class sizes, but what is considered a large class? My plan is to mass mail the firms in the secondary markets I have ties to and bid wisely for AJF. This summer will be dedicated to interview prep for me. Do you have any links to helpful interview prep resources?

[MSUN5]

I'm a little confused by OPs level of concern. My cursory research indicates that ~75% of Cornell students land in biglaw or fedclerk, not to mention whatever other percent lands high-prestige gov't or public interest gigs--which is near impossible to parse given what's reported on 509's.

Point is: so long as you're a good interview, in this market, the data suggests you should be totally fine as a median Cornell student at OCI.

[Anonymous User]

To the OP. As a recent Cornell law grad, I think you need to find a few 2Ls/3Ls that you're close with or that you trust, and reach out to them.

Below median at Cornell is a fine place to be and while a lot of the advice here has been good, there a lot of details such as "what is a big class size" that can be much more easily answered by current students.

I think the most important thing to remember when you're below median is that once you're targeting firms out of the "most selective" grade range, it all comes down to the interview and personality.

[Anonymous User]

I just finished my second semester 1L year at a lower t14 and I did not do well. I did pretty badly that I'm now below median. Median here is around a 3.35 and I'm at a 3.28. How badly screwed am I for Big Law? Do I even have a chance at AJF? Should I just forego Big Law completely? Please be honest with me.

For the record, I had a 3.27 after 1L at Northwestern (3.35 median too). I landed 5 CBs and ended up with 2 V50 offers (cancelled one callback, dinged at another V40, and dinged at a boutique). That said, I went through 25 interviews to get to that stage, and I got halfway through the process before I got my first CB and the other 4 came in the last 2 days of the 14 day OCI. You aren't screwed, but OCI will probably be a little stressful.

[Anonymous User]

I graduated Cornell within the last few years and had like a 3.27 or something end of 1L. I was a URM fwiw, but realistically unless you have very obviously poor grades you blend into the averagish glop of median. Like others have mentioned, you need to target firms with large class sizes in nyc that aren't particularly grade sensitive. Think White&Case, Shearman, magic circle firms imo, Proskauer, Paul Hastings etc. You prep interviewing hard and you'll be fine. For your edification, I would say any summer class that's been 40-50 or bigger the last few years would be considered "big." Spend a bit of extra time getting to really know the details of specific firms - interviewers love when they it appears that you've taken their specific firm seriously. Good luck.

[Anonymous User]

I graduated Cornell within the last few years and had like a 3.27 or something end of 1L. I was a URM fwiw, but realistically unless you have very obviously poor grades you blend into the averagish glop of median. Like others have mentioned, you need to target firms with large class sizes in nyc that aren't particularly grade sensitive. Think White&Case, Shearman, magic circle firms imo, Proskauer, Paul Hastings etc. You prep interviewing hard and you'll be fine. For your edification, I would say any summer class that's been 40-50 or bigger the last few years would be considered "big." Spend a bit of extra time getting to really know the details of specific firms - interviewers love when they it appears that you've taken their specific firm seriously. Good luck.

Anon with the 3.27 from NU. Ended up at one of the firms listed. I think this advice is spot on.

Also, from a mental perspective, I was pretty down on myself for not gettinig the grades for Wachtell, Cravath, etc. level of firms, but I was pleasantly surprised with the work that my firm does. There is a lot of really amazing work to go around, and I think we often downplay V50 firms (or even V100) firms as "meh," when they are in reality getting some of the best legal work in the country. I'd be excited if I were you. White & Case does some great M&A and Litigation work; Shearman has top notch M&A and Capital Markets groups; and Proskauer does some fantastic ECEB and L&A work.