Both spouses in biglaw NYC Forum

[Anonymous User]

So, I got a job in NYC at a V10. My wife just got a job at a V20 in NYC too. We are moving in a couple of months. We have a 1 year old. Has anyone been in a marriage with kids with both spouses working biglaw hours? Is it sustainable? This worries me a bit and I don't want my kid to be neglected.

[legalpotato]

Be sure to get a good nanny. May even need a wet nurse.

[BasilHallward]

Be sure to get a good nanny. May even need a wet nurse.

Neglected is a strong word. But if you mean your baby (given how much babies sleep) will hardly see you, that is entirely true. There is really no other way to put it. As previously said, get a good nanny and hopefully you have family/friends support in NYC. It will not be easy.

[RaceJudicata]

Be sure to get a good nanny. May even need a wet nurse.

Neglected is a strong word. But if you mean your baby (given how much babies sleep) will hardly see you, that is entirely true. There is really no other way to put it. As previously said, get a good nanny and hopefully you have family/friends support in NYC. It will not be easy.

Not easy, sure, but certainly doable. As others have said, stable, quality childcare is key. Good luck!

[Raiden]

honestly, one of you will have to make a decision to stay at home as your child grows up. These are the best years and they don’t come back.

[QContinuum]

honestly, one of you will have to make a decision to stay at home as your child grows up. These are the best years and they don’t come back.

That's more of a "traditional family values" argument, though. Most modern families have both spouses working full-time. If OP and their spouse are both career-driven, which it sounds like they are, I don't think there's a compelling argument for saying one of them has to quit their career to be a full-time homemaker.

[legalpotato]

Should revise to ask what practice areas you will be in. If it is some specialist going like tax, environmental, employee, or if it is lit, yeah it’s doable.

If it is corporate it is not going to be sustainable unless you are both psychos. To be clear, about 33% of ppl in v10 corporate are psychos, and 0% of those ppl know they are psychos. So maybe you will be ok, but your kid won’t if you guys plan on doing this long term. (The fact that you are concerned suggests you guys aren’t psycho though.)

[QContinuum]

Should revise to ask what practice areas you will be in. If it is some specialist going like tax, environmental, employee, or if it is lit, yeah it’s doable.

If it is corporate it is not going to be sustainable unless you are both psychos. To be clear, about 33% of ppl in v10 corporate are psychos, and 0% of those ppl know they are psychos. So maybe you will be ok, but your kid won’t if you guys plan on doing this long term. (The fact that you are concerned suggests you guys aren’t psycho though.)

If they have a sufficiently (read: very) robust childcare setup, it could be doable even with M&A. They'll be at different firms, so it's likely they won't experience hellish months at the same time.

It also depends a lot on their firms' respective facetime expectations/requirements. Lots of firms are okay with associates (especially those with children) typically leaving the office by 6/7 and then logging back in at home, which would make things much easier to sustain than if both spouses were at firms that expect associates to burn the midnight oil in the office every night.

[lawfan2012]

Many families do this. It is doable with a nanny (or nanny plus babysitters) who fits your family. Do not be dissuaded from trying.

On the other hand, many families in this situation also end up deciding that one of them should take a less demanding job (government, in house, nonprofit, etc.). The New York Times just did a piece on how decisions like that often lead to a gender gap at work. If it ends up that your family is on that situation, try not to default to a decision that your wife should de-prioritize her career, as that can lead to resentment down the line. Try to make a reasoned decision together taking both of your preferences and needs into account.

[icansortofmath]

Many people do this. Live close to work, get full time nanny (live in au pair works too, main cost for that is rent), and just generally a robust childcare setup and you’ll be fine.

At times you will feel like one of you is working to pay for the childcare but at biglaw salaries, there will still be money left over.

It’s not frowned upon either despite what some people think. Just by living really close to work and understanding that your child doesn’t need you there for a common cold will go a long way. Most of the obstacles are psychological and financial, and really not unique to couples in biglaw.

[nixy]

honestly, one of you will have to make a decision to stay at home as your child grows up. These are the best years and they don’t come back.

This is absolutely a personal judgment call, not some kind of absolute truth. There is no one way anyone "has" to raise kids.

[Hutz_and_Goodman]

There is an associate in my office in this situation. I have two young kids myself (although my wife is not in big law). It is doable. I see my kids every morning and hang out with them 2-3 hours every morning. I see them at bedtime probably an average of twice a week (it varies). We spend the entire weekend together every weekend and when I have work to catch up on I do it when they are napping or asleep.

[ClubberLang]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that you'll probably have to hire two full time nannies (or full time daycare plus full time nanny) to cover all the hours when you both will be gone. It's a workable arrangement when things are going smoothly, but if the nanny takes a day off things can go haywire.

Speaking from experience here, I wouldn't advise this. It would be more doable if you had immediate family nearby that wanted to take a very active role, but you said that you are moving to NYC so it sounds like that may not be the case. You might be able to grind it out for a while, but its not sustainable long-term. One spouse should seriously consider looking at a job with normal hours.

[QContinuum]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that you'll probably have to hire two full time nannies (or full time daycare plus full time nanny) to cover all the hours when you both will be gone. It's a workable arrangement when things are going smoothly, but if the nanny takes a day off things can go haywire.

That's why it's critical to have an emergency backup childcare plan in place. Many firms now offer on-site emergency childcare as a benefit. I agree that it'd be crazy to rely on the nanny never getting sick/taking a personal day.

Speaking from experience here, I wouldn't advise this. It would be more doable if you had immediate family nearby that wanted to take a very active role, but you said that you are moving to NYC so it sounds like that may not be the case. You might be able to grind it out for a while, but its not sustainable long-term. One spouse should seriously consider looking at a job with normal hours.

Well, the average tenure in BigLaw is what, 3 years? 4 years? I forget, but it's not a very long time. Very few want to/are able to stay in BigLaw past 5-6 years.

I think perfectly reasonable for OP and his (I assume; heteronormativity strikes again!) wife to try this out and grind it out for a few years. If it starts looking like one or both of them want to stay in BigLaw long-term, then reassess and reevaluate whether it makes sense to move closer to family and/or for one or both of them to take a job with better hours.

[icansortofmath]

There are definitely ways to make it work. There are really two major barriers to making this work:

You need to make sure you will almost never be pulled away from work for an "emergency" like the kid has a cold. In essence this means having 24/7 reliable backup coverage. People have made this work with (typically some combination of):
1. families
2. housekeeper who can be called in to emergency babysit
3. using a childcare very near by and getting to know parents living in the same buildings
4. au pairs
5. full time nanny (then just arrange something else from the above to ensure coverage)
6. 1-5 employed by your neighbors... basically a nanny/au pair pool in your building

You want to feel psychologically connected to the kid. Some things I've seen people do:
1. Skype at a set bed time
2. Go home for bed time before going back (only possible because you can afford to live so close to home)
3. Getting the nannies to record a video or two and/or write a quick daily report about what the kid did so parents are up to date

There are tons and tons of things you can do to make double biglaw work and there are substantial financial advantages (which implies more educational/experiential/vacation options and opportunities later on for the children if nothing else). As far as unpredictability goes, double medical redient couples got it way worse. They got no money and even more unstable schedule and a lot of them are still making it work.

Full Disclaimer: I don't have kids myself. My wife and I have just been talking about it and we've been looking at options on how to make it work.

[Anonymous User]

OP here. Is an au pair a good idea? It seems if we get an au pair that would solve a lot of the problems. Only problem would be finding a 3 bedroom in NYC. Working in Midtown - 3BR is like 7K a month. Long Island City might be more doable -closer to 5K a month.

**EDIT - My bad, au pairs can only work 45 hrs a week max. That means I would still need to get some sort of additional child care. Au pair might not be a good idea.

[icansortofmath]

45 hour work max is different from availability. People just tell their au pairs to be available for the “cold” type of emergencies. I am sure people make arrangements under table too. I know for certain some parents leave their kids with the au pair while they go on vacation and that definitely would blow 45 hour work time.

A setup (one I grew up with) that is relatively common is a full time housekeeper plus childcare/pre K then plus au pair. The bills rack up quickly but you got redundancies in the setup that makes it pretty stress free.

Rent is expensive for live in help. There is really no way around it. Honestly most couples I know sacrifice space in living room to make it work instead of renting 3 bedrooms although I suspect you guys could make 3 bedrooms in LIC/Manhattan work financially.

[Hutz_and_Goodman]

Is living in NJ an option? Child care is very expensive. My wife and I pay $50k a year for a nanny 8:30-5:30 every weekday and that is standard. Idk what a live in nanny would cost and rent for a 3 bedroom in NYC will be high and there is a loss of privacy that would not be an issue if you rented a house where maybe there is a ground level bedroom with a separate entrance.