What is the worst year in Biglaw? Forum

[paperrev]

I don't know if this has been discussed before, but I just got randomly curious: in the vein of 1L generally being considered the craziest/worst year in law school, what is the worst year in Biglaw? Is it your junior years cuz you have no idea what's going on? Mid-level cuz you still don't know what's going on but are expected to know what's going on? Senior cuz you're just taking way more responsibilities? Would love to hear some opinions.

[MillllerTime]

This is going to vary a TON by person, firm, group, luck, state of the economy, etc. Also greatly depends on how you define "worst." If going strictly on hours, I would say it has to be the year or two before partnership.

For me though, it was definitely the first full calendar year. Stub year is great because expectation is still nothing, but after 3-4 months people quickly expect you to have figured the basics out, and unless you're some sort of wunderkind you'll still be completely faking your way through everything (I'm speaking for corp but suspect this is true across any biglaw practice). I billed my lowest number that year but spent more time at the office just trying to figure out what was going on. I was worried about every deadline and project because I didn't have a sense yet of what was important and what wasn't.

Hours definitely pick up as you get more senior (again speaking transactional work), but you have more visibility into what's coming down the pipeline and more ability to delegate when you're busy or do stuff yourself when you would otherwise be twiddling your thumbs. I also just enjoy the job infinitely more now that I (mostly) know what I'm talking about and spend more of my time on the phone than sludging through diligence.

[TUwave]

This is going to vary a TON by person, firm, group, luck, state of the economy, etc. Also greatly depends on how you define "worst." If going strictly on hours, I would say it has to be the year or two before partnership.

For me though, it was definitely the first full calendar year. Stub year is great because expectation is still nothing, but after 3-4 months people quickly expect you to have figured the basics out, and unless you're some sort of wunderkind you'll still be completely faking your way through everything (I'm speaking for corp but suspect this is true across any biglaw practice). I billed my lowest number that year but spent more time at the office just trying to figure out what was going on. I was worried about every deadline and project because I didn't have a sense yet of what was important and what wasn't.

Hours definitely pick up as you get more senior (again speaking transactional work), but you have more visibility into what's coming down the pipeline and more ability to delegate when you're busy or do stuff yourself when you would otherwise be twiddling your thumbs. I also just enjoy the job infinitely more now that I (mostly) know what I'm talking about and spend more of my time on the phone than sludging through diligence.

This.

I'm in my second year and I lateraled in from a gov't job and only got like 2 months of being a first year. I feel behind the eight ball and then some... fake it till you make it I guess.

[Anonymous User]

The worst is the year before partnership (where you are trying to convince everyone you know how to be a partner); the second worst is your first full year (where you are trying to convince everyone you know how to be a competent lawyer).

[Anonymous User]

I thought first and second year were pretty easy, mainly because the projects are easy and no one expects you to know anything.

I thought 3rd year was pretty tough. you're expected to have all the junior stuff mastered, and start taking on mid-level type work. A lot of people who want to delegate junior stuff go to 3rd years because they know a lot more than first and second years, so I got crushed and felt overwhelmed trying to draft more advanced docs.

I loved years 5 and 6 - I actually felt like I knew what I was doing and could largely run a lot of transactions. Partners started treating me more like a colleague; and clients started to really trust my advice.

Senior associate is great like that too - I have a few juniors I trust that love working with me, so I can delegate to them. Less supervision. But I do get crushed because I can run deals with very limited partner input now.

[Anonymous User]

Impressed that folks here are getting it right even though most haven't lived through it yet: the year you are up for partner.

It's not the "worst" in every way. You aren't doing the worst of the grunt work, obviously, and you have more insight into your schedule than juniors. You're doing work that you (presumably) find interesting (or you should have left a long time ago), and you at long last have decent responsibility, plenty of client contact, etc. But the combination of expectations and pressures from both people senior to you and junior to you; the sensation that any mistake (perceived or actual, client-facing or far from that) could be fatal to your entire current career path; the understanding that forces totally outside your control (the economy, lateral partner hiring decisions, retirement or lateral moves of senior partners important to your business case, etc.) can have dispositive weight on whether you get to pursue the career path you have chosen; the knowledge that any change in career path will come with a tremendous financial fall from grace; the constant behind-the-scenes discussions about you and your promise as an attorney and as a partner that you are never fully privy to yet somehow not quite exempt from hearing flashes about secondhand; and the understanding that anything you do can be misinterpreted and judged accordingly, can make for a potent, pressure-cooker situation.

But assuming you make it through that, it's not half-bad on the other side.

[jarofsoup]

The part of it that you aren't on secondment.

[2013]

From what I’ve experienced and know from talking to others, every year sucks for different reasons.

[Anonymous User]

Other than the year before partnership answer, it's all going to vary based on your matters. Although I will say, being a junior who is answering to other associates doesn't have the pressure associated with it of being a senior (especially an understaffed one) and having to run things by yourself while answering to the partners and clients.

[Anonymous User]

As a third year, I'd say it's gotten progressively better. As a first year, everything is so stressful, even though you aren't doing anything actually important. A few years in, you get a much better sense of what is important and how to set appropriate personal limits.

I am worried about getting more senior though. I work directly with a lot of non-equity partners, but very little direct interaction equity partners. From what I can tell, losing that buffer makes life a lot more stressful.

[shock259]

I think 4-5th year are pretty bad. You've got enough knowledge to be dangerous but there are many gaps in your understanding still. And people stop checking your work. But lord knows, they still get mad at you when you screw up something that they said they reviewed. Also, dealing with clients directly, particularly important individuals and higher ups at clients, can be stressful. Also, you start leading calls and negotiations, which I've never enjoyed.

[boredtodeath]

All of them.

[PMan99]

Saying the year before partnership is the worst is like saying 3L is the worst because you decided to join 3 journals and are gunning for summa cum laude, so you have to ace all of your classes. It objectively might suck, but you're only there because you chose to be (and, besides, most junior partners would tell you the first few years of partnership are actually worse).

[dabigchina]

Saying the year before partnership is the worst is like saying 3L is the worst because you decided to join 3 journals and are gunning for summa cum laude, so you have to ace all of your classes. It objectively might suck, but you're only there because you chose to be (and, besides, most junior partners would tell you the first few years of partnership are actually worse).

[objctnyrhnr]

Saying the year before partnership is the worst is like saying 3L is the worst because you decided to join 3 journals and are gunning for summa cum laude, so you have to ace all of your classes. It objectively might suck, but you're only there because you chose to be (and, besides, most junior partners would tell you the first few years of partnership are actually worse).

Can’t you say something similar about every year though? I mean you’re only in biglaw because you chose to bid at oci or whatever instead of trying to be (for example) an ADA and (as a junior) you only grind tons of hours of doc review because you are now in biglaw (as you wanted) as opposed to an ADA working considerably fewer hours and reviewing way fewer documents.

[Tree]

For me, every year the answer to the question is "this one".

[papermateflair]

For me, it's any year that you're building up your credibility at the firm - so at my first job, it was the year/year and a half I was proving that I was a good newbie associate, and then after lateraling, the year that it took to build credibility with the partners at the new firm. The first year really requires you to be the best you - showing up to work early and leaving late, immediately answering every call and email, etc. After people trust you, it's a lot easier, because then you can just work hard and not have to be constantly worried that small interactions or errors are going to get you fired or labeled a bad associate.

[QContinuum]

For me, it's any year that you're building up your credibility at the firm - so at my first job, it was the year/year and a half I was proving that I was a good newbie associate, and then after lateraling, the year that it took to build credibility with the partners at the new firm. The first year really requires you to be the best you - showing up to work early and leaving late, immediately answering every call and email, etc. After people trust you, it's a lot easier, because then you can just work hard and not have to be constantly worried that small interactions or errors are going to get you fired or labeled a bad associate.

Couldn't agree more. It's why I'm always surprised at folks who lateral so frequently they're worried about being perceived as "job hoppers." Starting fresh at a new firm is tough, all else equal. You don't really know anyone and have to start from square one re: sourcing work and building your reputation and learning the new firm's unwritten rules.

[MillllerTime]

For me, it's any year that you're building up your credibility at the firm - so at my first job, it was the year/year and a half I was proving that I was a good newbie associate, and then after lateraling, the year that it took to build credibility with the partners at the new firm. The first year really requires you to be the best you - showing up to work early and leaving late, immediately answering every call and email, etc. After people trust you, it's a lot easier, because then you can just work hard and not have to be constantly worried that small interactions or errors are going to get you fired or labeled a bad associate.

Couldn't agree more. It's why I'm always surprised at folks who lateral so frequently they're worried about being perceived as "job hoppers." Starting fresh at a new firm is tough, all else equal. You don't really know anyone and have to start from square one re: sourcing work and building your reputation and learning the new firm's unwritten rules.

Will echo the part about laterals. I know a few people who have moved 2-3 times in their first 5 years solely for the sake of moving (both for lateral bonuses and for an excuse to take an extended vacation). Never seemed worth it to me for the reasons noted above. Assuming you have actually built up some good will, I would think you'd be much better off using to to tell a partner "hey I need an extended break, I'm going to take several weeks off."