Question about jobs in TX Forum

[Anonymous User]

I’ve recently been looking at jobs in the ATX area and have noticed that many of the jobs I’m interested require TX Bar admission for an applicant to be considered. The roles I’m looking at are not litigation-focused.

Should I apply anyway and state that i understand they are looking for someone already barred in TX, but that I am willing to sit for the bar in July/February? Will it most likely be an auto-ding?

Some positions “prefer” TX bar but others seem to require it.

[QContinuum]

Austin jobs tend to be pretty hard to get, as the competition is fierce and the openings are few (Austin's not a major legal market). If you're serious about wanting to move to TX, I'd advise looking at Houston and Dallas first.

Do you have any ties to TX?

[Anonymous User]

Austin jobs tend to be pretty hard to get, as the competition is fierce and the openings are few (Austin's not a major legal market). If you're serious about wanting to move to TX, I'd advise looking at Houston and Dallas first.

Do you have any ties to TX?

I lived in San Antonio the first 12 years of my life, so I think I have decent ties. I would just like to live in a different part of TX and ATX was just the first choice. I am definitely open to Dallas though (not sure I’d want to live in Houston).

How would I go about applying to jobs that have TX Bar required in Dallas? Or Houston? Should I just try to apply and say I’m open to sitting for the bar in July/Feb? Not being barred in TX immediately wouldn’t really affect my ability to do the work I do. I only work in federal law and not in a litigation context.

[Anonymous User]

Depends what you’re doing. If you’re doing patent pros, no one should care. My firm (in Texas but not ATX) has plenty of people who aren’t barred in Texas and as far as I know no one has ever brought it up to them.

Guess it would also matter how senior you are - if you’re a younger associate it’s unlikely you’ll be signing anything or appearing in court (since you said not lit) anyway.

[Anonymous User]

Austin jobs tend to be pretty hard to get, as the competition is fierce and the openings are few (Austin's not a major legal market). If you're serious about wanting to move to TX, I'd advise looking at Houston and Dallas first.

Do you have any ties to TX?

TCR.

If you're looking for traditional practice groups (non-IP) at market-paying or near market-paying firms, then you need to have ties, TX bar passage, T-14, and good grades. I broke into litigation in Austin straight out law school. It was really difficult, and had nearly all of the above.

[Yugihoe]

Whats better about Dallas than Houston?

[BasilHallward]

Whats better about Dallas than Houston?

You should probably narrow that question before this turns into an epic Dallas v. Houston trash-talking thread.

Short answer: From a broad perspective, they are both similar major southern cities. Everything else is nuance and preference.

[Anonymous User]

Dallas transplant who visits Houston often. Dallas has better commute and city planning. Houston has better food. Dallas has slightly better weather and airports; Houston has slightly better access to sub-par beaches. Everything past that is mostly noise from people who have weird egos about their cities.

[patent_guy]

Whats better about Dallas than Houston?

Everything.

I grew up in one, now live in the other.

[Yugihoe]

Dallas transplant who visits Houston often. Dallas has better commute and city planning. Houston has better food. Dallas has slightly better weather and airports; Houston has slightly better access to sub-par beaches. Everything past that is mostly noise from people who have weird egos about their cities.

Nice, haven't seen anyone really come in to defend Houston yet. I've only been to Austin so can't compare. Is COL and diversity (of people) similar? I am considering moving to the lone star state.

[BasilHallward]

Dallas transplant who visits Houston often. Dallas has better commute and city planning. Houston has better food. Dallas has slightly better weather and airports; Houston has slightly better access to sub-par beaches. Everything past that is mostly noise from people who have weird egos about their cities.

Nice, haven't seen anyone really come in to defend Houston yet. I've only been to Austin so can't compare. Is COL and diversity (of people) similar? I am considering moving to the lone star state.

I cannot comment too much on COL in Houston, but can confirm that Austin will be the priciest, simply because it's impossible to live more than 5-7 miles from downtown. In Dallas, you can 15-20 miles out and still be in good shape. As a result, the COL can be really low.

I grew up in Dallas, went to undergrad in Dallas, visited on work to Houston extensively, and have lived and worked in Austin for the past 4 years. Putting politics aside, IME an overwhelming majority of millennial-aged Texans prefer the Austin lifestyle. Hence, why the COL is skyrocketing and well-paying legal jobs are super competitive. Houston and Dallas are massive metro areas. Dallas is even bigger because of Fort Worth. So, it's hard to compare the two, because many people don't live in Dallas or Houston. Instead they live in Lewisville/Grapevine (Dallas) or Katy (Houston) and commute to work everyday. This suburban sprawl was the blueprint for Dallas and Houston, which is why their respective downtowns and adjacent neighborhoods lack charm and vibrancy. Most everything is super commercial in Dallas and Houston and will wear you down. Austin feels like a more natural and organic city experience with neighborhoods flowing out of the city with plenty of green spaces. Of course, the sprawl is beginning in Austin as well.

[astrosfan]

Both Houston and Dallas are massive sprawls, but are very different. Houston is more diverse. It's diverse, gritty, cosmopolitan, international, blue collar, nasty, and glorious at the same time. The economy and legal market are heavily energy-oriented, so you need to be comfortable about that. Dallas has a more clean and manicured but parochial feel. Dallas people call Houston the armpit of Texas. Houstonians think Dallas people are pretentious, parochial, and fratty.

Austin has a hip and increasingly over-gentrified feel. A lot of people like that and it's a cool city.

[Aptitude]

Both Houston and Dallas are massive sprawls, but are very different. Houston is more diverse. It's diverse, gritty, cosmopolitan, international, blue collar, nasty, and glorious at the same time. The economy and legal market are heavily energy-oriented, so you need to be comfortable about that. Dallas has a more clean and manicured but parochial feel. Dallas people call Houston the armpit of Texas. Houstonians think Dallas people are pretentious, parochial, and fratty.

Austin has a hip and increasingly over-gentrified feel. A lot of people like that and it's a cool city.

I know a lot of people who think that way from Dallas. I've always found the mentality pretty weird, and how there's a prevalent amount of snobby people from Dallas, and the way they look down on Houston. People there seem classist and very concerned about image as related to wealth. I think Houston has a higher average salary too, which makes even weirder.

When you take a look at the wealthiest populations by city, Dallas is not high up there. But I meet way more snobby people in Dallas than I do in San Jose, Seattle, or San Francisco (three of the top cities) according to this https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/ec ... /34991163/.

I really never understood the Dallas mentality.

[Anonymous User]

Dallas transplant who visits Houston often. Dallas has better commute and city planning. Houston has better food. Dallas has slightly better weather and airports; Houston has slightly better access to sub-par beaches. Everything past that is mostly noise from people who have weird egos about their cities.

Nice, haven't seen anyone really come in to defend Houston yet. I've only been to Austin so can't compare. Is COL and diversity (of people) similar? I am considering moving to the lone star state.

I cannot comment too much on COL in Houston, but can confirm that Austin will be the priciest, simply because it's impossible to live more than 5-7 miles from downtown. In Dallas, you can 15-20 miles out and still be in good shape. As a result, the COL can be really low.

I grew up in Dallas, went to undergrad in Dallas, visited on work to Houston extensively, and have lived and worked in Austin for the past 4 years. Putting politics aside, IME an overwhelming majority of millennial-aged Texans prefer the Austin lifestyle. Hence, why the COL is skyrocketing and well-paying legal jobs are super competitive. Houston and Dallas are massive metro areas. Dallas is even bigger because of Fort Worth. So, it's hard to compare the two, because many people don't live in Dallas or Houston. Instead they live in Lewisville/Grapevine (Dallas) or Katy (Houston) and commute to work everyday. This suburban sprawl was the blueprint for Dallas and Houston, which is why their respective downtowns and adjacent neighborhoods lack charm and vibrancy. Most everything is super commercial in Dallas and Houston and will wear you down. Austin feels like a more natural and organic city experience with neighborhoods flowing out of the city with plenty of green spaces. Of course, the sprawl is beginning in Austin as well.

I grew up in a Houston suburb and always viewed the city as a sprawlings wasteland of hideous architecture and chain-restaurants where no one really lives or ventures into the inner city neighborhoods (which is why I gtfo for college and law school), but honestly working as a SA there and living in montrose totally changed my view of the city. First of all none of the lawyers I met at my firm commuted from the suburbs, besides a few partners. Most were in one of the inner city neighborhoods near DT. Those neighborhoods are pretty vibrant and full of independent bars and restaurants, cafes, art and music spaces, etc. Definitely not enough green space in large parts of the city, and definitely still ugly as hell IMO, but it is far from the soulless commuter city of the past.

[Anonymous User]

I lived in Austin for a number of years (also did UG and working after there). I split my summers (both 1L and 2L) in Dallas and Houston. Had offers in both cities. I decided to focus on my career. Career prospects in Houston are MUCH better than Austin or Dallas (whether corporate or litigation, but espectially corporate). Starting at a place like VE, BB, KE, LW, etc. in Houston (corporate) is MUCH more valuable than one of their satellite offices or the smaller shops based in Dallas (like Hayboo, LL, etc.). I think I agree that Dallas is "prettier" and has better weather (if you can ever think weather in TX is a plus factor). But I tended to like the down to earth people and restaurants in Houston better and the employment opportunities are much better than in Dallas. Just depends on what you are looking for. I would consider a move to Austin (but not Dallas) if the opportunity was as good as I have now, but I have not seen that (my family lives in Austin).

[BasilHallward]

Both Houston and Dallas are massive sprawls, but are very different. Houston is more diverse. It's diverse, gritty, cosmopolitan, international, blue collar, nasty, and glorious at the same time. The economy and legal market are heavily energy-oriented, so you need to be comfortable about that. Dallas has a more clean and manicured but parochial feel. Dallas people call Houston the armpit of Texas. Houstonians think Dallas people are pretentious, parochial, and fratty.

Austin has a hip and increasingly over-gentrified feel. A lot of people like that and it's a cool city.

I know a lot of people who think that way from Dallas. I've always found the mentality pretty weird, and how there's a prevalent amount of snobby people from Dallas, and the way they look down on Houston. People there seem classist and very concerned about image as related to wealth. I think Houston has a higher average salary too, which makes even weirder.

When you take a look at the wealthiest populations by city, Dallas is not high up there. But I meet way more snobby people in Dallas than I do in San Jose, Seattle, or San Francisco (three of the top cities) according to this https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/ec ... /34991163/.

I really never understood the Dallas mentality.

Agreed with the Highland Park slice of Dallas. But, like any city, there are great pockets in Dallas. Deep Ellum has had quite the revival and Bishop Arts is becoming a pretty cool area. Like any city, YMMV. I grew up closer to Fort Worth and had a much different blue collar experience in DFW. There are just so many mid-to larger size cities (Arlington, Fort Worth, Plano, Grapevine, etc.) around Dallas that the snobbery of Highland Park gets muted. But if you live near SMU or even Uptown for too long it will become insufferable.

[texas1100]

Anyone have info on the Dallas firm's for corporate? I've read the previous threads

[Anonymous User]

Dallas transplant who visits Houston often. Dallas has better commute and city planning. Houston has better food. Dallas has slightly better weather and airports; Houston has slightly better access to sub-par beaches. Everything past that is mostly noise from people who have weird egos about their cities.

Nice, haven't seen anyone really come in to defend Houston yet. I've only been to Austin so can't compare. Is COL and diversity (of people) similar? I am considering moving to the lone star state.

I cannot comment too much on COL in Houston, but can confirm that Austin will be the priciest, simply because it's impossible to live more than 5-7 miles from downtown. In Dallas, you can 15-20 miles out and still be in good shape. As a result, the COL can be really low.

I grew up in Dallas, went to undergrad in Dallas, visited on work to Houston extensively, and have lived and worked in Austin for the past 4 years. Putting politics aside, IME an overwhelming majority of millennial-aged Texans prefer the Austin lifestyle. Hence, why the COL is skyrocketing and well-paying legal jobs are super competitive. Houston and Dallas are massive metro areas. Dallas is even bigger because of Fort Worth. So, it's hard to compare the two, because many people don't live in Dallas or Houston. Instead they live in Lewisville/Grapevine (Dallas) or Katy (Houston) and commute to work everyday. This suburban sprawl was the blueprint for Dallas and Houston, which is why their respective downtowns and adjacent neighborhoods lack charm and vibrancy. Most everything is super commercial in Dallas and Houston and will wear you down. Austin feels like a more natural and organic city experience with neighborhoods flowing out of the city with plenty of green spaces. Of course, the sprawl is beginning in Austin as well.

I grew up in a Houston suburb and always viewed the city as a sprawlings wasteland of hideous architecture and chain-restaurants where no one really lives or ventures into the inner city neighborhoods (which is why I gtfo for college and law school), but honestly working as a SA there and living in montrose totally changed my view of the city. First of all none of the lawyers I met at my firm commuted from the suburbs, besides a few partners. Most were in one of the inner city neighborhoods near DT. Those neighborhoods are pretty vibrant and full of independent bars and restaurants, cafes, art and music spaces, etc. Definitely not enough green space in large parts of the city, and definitely still ugly as hell IMO, but it is far from the soulless commuter city of the past.

Ditto this. Montrose is a cool area. Also agree about the "sprawling wasteland of hideous architecture" part, but I would say that there is something liberating, dare I say beautiful, about Houston's hideous aesthetic. It's an acquired taste, but the "wasteland" symbolizes what's best about Houston: the people here don't give a dang about where you're from, which church you go to, how zoning works, how ugly the city is. As long as the economy's doing fine, we're all happy. Hard to describe, but there's something really liberating about the culture here and that's captured in the city's aesthetic.

[Anonymous User]

I lived in Austin for a number of years (also did UG and working after there). I split my summers (both 1L and 2L) in Dallas and Houston. Had offers in both cities. I decided to focus on my career. Career prospects in Houston are MUCH better than Austin or Dallas (whether corporate or litigation, but espectially corporate). Starting at a place like VE, BB, KE, LW, etc. in Houston (corporate) is MUCH more valuable than one of their satellite offices or the smaller shops based in Dallas (like Hayboo, LL, etc.). I think I agree that Dallas is "prettier" and has better weather (if you can ever think weather in TX is a plus factor). But I tended to like the down to earth people and restaurants in Houston better and the employment opportunities are much better than in Dallas. Just depends on what you are looking for. I would consider a move to Austin (but not Dallas) if the opportunity was as good as I have now, but I have not seen that (my family lives in Austin).

Considering a lateral move from NYC as a 2nd-3rd year with no TX ties. From what I've read, Dallas sounds more appealing as place to live though I am concerned about Houston being the bigger legal market and working for a smaller Dallas "satellite" office. On the other hand, a big part of moving is that I am hoping for a slightly more laid back atmosphere and facetime culture (compared to NYC) and I am not sure I want to start at a place like VE that has 2300+ hours instead of 1900-2000.

[astrosfan]

I lived in Austin for a number of years (also did UG and working after there). I split my summers (both 1L and 2L) in Dallas and Houston. Had offers in both cities. I decided to focus on my career. Career prospects in Houston are MUCH better than Austin or Dallas (whether corporate or litigation, but espectially corporate). Starting at a place like VE, BB, KE, LW, etc. in Houston (corporate) is MUCH more valuable than one of their satellite offices or the smaller shops based in Dallas (like Hayboo, LL, etc.). I think I agree that Dallas is "prettier" and has better weather (if you can ever think weather in TX is a plus factor). But I tended to like the down to earth people and restaurants in Houston better and the employment opportunities are much better than in Dallas. Just depends on what you are looking for. I would consider a move to Austin (but not Dallas) if the opportunity was as good as I have now, but I have not seen that (my family lives in Austin).

I generally agree with this, and it's definitely very true for corporate. Litigation is a little different. Houston lit is weird and most of the biglaw firms have continued to downsize their lit practices. There's a bunch of thriving elite boutiques, though, so it could be a great place to start your lit career if you have the credentials for a boutique and wouldn't mind committing to a boutique at the start of your career. In Dallas, the elite lit practices are largely at the traditional big firms and boutiques aren't as much of a thing (some exceptions, like McKool). The lit practices at the top of the market are thriving. Winston is making waves as a relative newcomer to Dallas for example.

[Anonymous User]

Whats better about Dallas than Houston?

Everything.

I grew up in one, now live in the other.

The food's far better in Houston and it's quickly picking up a rep among foodies.

https://www.gq.com/story/houston-restau ... thern-cool

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/entert ... 647593.php

I expect Houston to start hipster-fying soon. Great food, cheap cost of living, and thriving restaurant industry, usually draws the hipsters in.

Both Houston and Dallas are massive sprawls, but are very different. Houston is more diverse. It's diverse, gritty, cosmopolitan, international, blue collar, nasty, and glorious at the same time. The economy and legal market are heavily energy-oriented, so you need to be comfortable about that. Dallas has a more clean and manicured but parochial feel. Dallas people call Houston the armpit of Texas. Houstonians think Dallas people are pretentious, parochial, and fratty.

Austin has a hip and increasingly over-gentrified feel. A lot of people like that and it's a cool city.

I know a lot of people who think that way from Dallas. I've always found the mentality pretty weird, and how there's a prevalent amount of snobby people from Dallas, and the way they look down on Houston. People there seem classist and very concerned about image as related to wealth. I think Houston has a higher average salary too, which makes even weirder.

When you take a look at the wealthiest populations by city, Dallas is not high up there. But I meet way more snobby people in Dallas than I do in San Jose, Seattle, or San Francisco (three of the top cities) according to this https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/ec ... /34991163/.

I really never understood the Dallas mentality.

Agreed with the Highland Park slice of Dallas. But, like any city, there are great pockets in Dallas. Deep Ellum has had quite the revival and Bishop Arts is becoming a pretty cool area. Like any city, YMMV. I grew up closer to Fort Worth and had a much different blue collar experience in DFW. There are just so many mid-to larger size cities (Arlington, Fort Worth, Plano, Grapevine, etc.) around Dallas that the snobbery of Highland Park gets muted. But if you live near SMU or even Uptown for too long it will become insufferable.

I'm posting in anon because I feel like I could be identified. But I've done business with people in some of the places you mentioned, and business with people in San Jose/San Fran.

The vibe is completely different. It's like Dallas people have to let you know they have money. It seems like the rich people dress rich, they drive nice cars - they have to do it. Attorneys there act that way too. They have the "Oh I'm an attorney at ______" vibe.

In San Fran you have trouble telling who's homeless and who's a multi-millionaire. The social aspects are entirely different, with how clubs and high-end restaurants work too. You can totally walk into a high end social club or country club in the Bay Area dressed casually.

Maybe because I'm always doing business there and haven't met any of the blue collar people, so my view is skewed. But I interact with a similar crowd in SJ/SF and don't get even close to the same vibe. Even the billionaires are way more chilled out. There are plenty of cool people there, I just rarely go to a city as classist as Dallas in general. And even the cool people I meet seem concerned about putting that vibe out more than average.

[HenryHankPalmer]

I lived in Austin for a number of years (also did UG and working after there). I split my summers (both 1L and 2L) in Dallas and Houston. Had offers in both cities. I decided to focus on my career. Career prospects in Houston are MUCH better than Austin or Dallas (whether corporate or litigation, but espectially corporate). Starting at a place like VE, BB, KE, LW, etc. in Houston (corporate) is MUCH more valuable than one of their satellite offices or the smaller shops based in Dallas (like Hayboo, LL, etc.). I think I agree that Dallas is "prettier" and has better weather (if you can ever think weather in TX is a plus factor). But I tended to like the down to earth people and restaurants in Houston better and the employment opportunities are much better than in Dallas. Just depends on what you are looking for. I would consider a move to Austin (but not Dallas) if the opportunity was as good as I have now, but I have not seen that (my family lives in Austin).

I generally agree with this, and it's definitely very true for corporate. Litigation is a little different. Houston lit is weird and most of the biglaw firms have continued to downsize their lit practices. There's a bunch of thriving elite boutiques, though, so it could be a great place to start your lit career if you have the credentials for a boutique and wouldn't mind committing to a boutique at the start of your career. In Dallas, the elite lit practices are largely at the traditional big firms and boutiques aren't as much of a thing (some exceptions, like McKool). The lit practices at the top of the market are thriving. Winston is making waves as a relative newcomer to Dallas for example.

Other than Winston, which of the traditional big firms have elite lit shops?

[astrosfan]

I lived in Austin for a number of years (also did UG and working after there). I split my summers (both 1L and 2L) in Dallas and Houston. Had offers in both cities. I decided to focus on my career. Career prospects in Houston are MUCH better than Austin or Dallas (whether corporate or litigation, but espectially corporate). Starting at a place like VE, BB, KE, LW, etc. in Houston (corporate) is MUCH more valuable than one of their satellite offices or the smaller shops based in Dallas (like Hayboo, LL, etc.). I think I agree that Dallas is "prettier" and has better weather (if you can ever think weather in TX is a plus factor). But I tended to like the down to earth people and restaurants in Houston better and the employment opportunities are much better than in Dallas. Just depends on what you are looking for. I would consider a move to Austin (but not Dallas) if the opportunity was as good as I have now, but I have not seen that (my family lives in Austin).

I generally agree with this, and it's definitely very true for corporate. Litigation is a little different. Houston lit is weird and most of the biglaw firms have continued to downsize their lit practices. There's a bunch of thriving elite boutiques, though, so it could be a great place to start your lit career if you have the credentials for a boutique and wouldn't mind committing to a boutique at the start of your career. In Dallas, the elite lit practices are largely at the traditional big firms and boutiques aren't as much of a thing (some exceptions, like McKool). The lit practices at the top of the market are thriving. Winston is making waves as a relative newcomer to Dallas for example.

Other than Winston, which of the traditional big firms have elite lit shops?

The 2018 Dallas thread has a good summary on this.