What Are your Thoughts On Standardized Tests Before Being Offered Employment Forum

[Anonymous User]

...... Do big law firms (AmLaw Vault, etc) use them? Have you experienced them, and do they measure your aptitude as a practicing attorney at the firm? Do reputable firms use them?

I am a recent licensed attorney looking for a full-time job. Last week I went to a small plaintiff's law firm (10-11) attorneys including partners but huge office and heavily staffed by paralegals, clerks, staff and a HR department. I got an interview with them through Simplicity and they seemed to be in my home town, so it was a win for me although I did have to drive over 25 miles to get there. This was an entry-level position doing mostly motion and discovery practice for the firm.

As soon as I went in a man handed me a test... this was a standardized test with about 50 questions. I had to get about 30 right before I could interview with the hiring partner. If I missed the mark, I was to be sent home. He told me that everyone including the clerks, paralegals, etc had to take the test to work here. Welp, I failed it as an attorney. I had only 10 minutes to complete it. He mentioned I could skip the ones I don't understand or whatever, in an effort to save time to get to 30. The test threw me off guard. I had no idea I would be hit with this. I took the test, and missed the mark. I was panicking lol. I was sent home. I was thrown off because I was not expecting a test. Even more so, I was not expecting to take it before I could even begin to interview with an actual attorney. I am also pretty bad at such tests. I was not allowed to use a calculator as well. Some of the questions concerned shapes, patterns, word definitions, complex math patterns, etc. I feel like such a jackass after missing the mark. This has never happened to me in an interview. What is worse is now I feel I am inept to practice law.... This was probably an IQ test of some sort, and I just... welp... I know I am not inept in any way.... sigh just very disappointed.

Granted, I have had hypos being thrown my way when I interned for the DA and PD in law school, before I could begin the internship, and I did really well on those, but I was not expecting anything like this, a standardized test of some sort.


Here is a video of similar questions I found on Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxeHtY-H7Dk

[CardozoLaw09]

that's weird especially to be given it for a role at a small plaintiff's law firm

[Anonymous User]

OP here,

As I mentioned above, I really hope they don't correlate to how successful I will be in a small plaintiff's law firm. What is the point of such tests anyways. Not going to lie, they are pretty stressful and difficult given you only have 10 minutes to complete 50 complex analytical questions and have to get at least 30 correct. I've sucked it up and come to admit maybe it was just some weird IQ test, and I've failed at it. Oh well. Life moves on.

[lavarman84]

OP here,

As I mentioned above, I really hope they don't correlate to how successful I will be in a small plaintiff's law firm. What is the point of such tests anyways. Not going to lie, they are pretty stressful and difficult given you only have 10 minutes to complete 50 complex analytical questions and have to get at least 30 correct. I've sucked it up and come to admit maybe it was just some weird IQ test, and I've failed at it. Oh well. Life moves on.

They don't. It's stupid. You're better off not working at that firm.

[BrainsyK]

That's super weird. They're losing qualified candidates because of an irrelevant standard they're upholding. That was in no way a bad reflection on you as a candidate. Maybe the actual test was to see who would have enough common sense and mental fortitude to tell them that the test was dumb. :/

[Anonymous User]

OP here,

I should have had enough self-respect to see through the firm. I should have politely declined the test and left based off the quality of the work being potentially offered and the type of firm this was. I mean they literally did the same thing to me. Instead I just sat there like a monkey stressed out of my mind with a racing heartbeat and a pen quickly jotting things down, while they timed me and briefly observed. Just feel really pathetic about doing all of this. I am not desperate for a job, but a job would help at this point. What is worse is that they now have my results although I just put my first name on the test. I am pretty sure they will not do anything with it, but still they did not even ask me to sign a waiver for them to keep such, what I would consider confidential or personal information. I mean being in a legal community which is not that large, I would not want others (other attorneys) to know about my results etc. even within that firm if they were to come across my name in the future.... (Upon seeing me in the courtroom and them saying to one another, "oh yeah, I know that attorney, he interviewed with us once, he was unable to pass"). They could have at least given me the test back after it was graded, or told me that it would be destroyed, etc. It likely will not make it to the attorneys at the firm because it was likely a HR individual that administered it but still.

Anyways, when the ten minutes were up, the individual entered the room and told me time is up. He took the test, which was on paper format, and said he will be right back after he is done grading it. He stepped back in after five minutes, and said I missed the mark; therefore, they will not be moving forward with me, and I could go home. Not once was I thanked for coming in, nor did an attorney come out to greet me or an attorney even visit with me. Instead, they have this gentlemen administering tests. I would not treat my esteemed colleagues in this manner ever; I would at least meet and greet even if just for a few minutes. Just was kind of shocked, but hey welcome to the real world.

I literally drove all the way to take a test and leave empty handed within ten minutes on what I initially thought was an interview. I even prepared so hard for the interview and read up on the profiles of the attorneys, big wins, verdicts, etc. I spent a lot of time driving up there and back as well. I just feel like this was a set up, and I could sense something was off about the work I would be doing and the firm when I was asked to take the test. Seemed like I would be sitting in the back of a room somewhere filing motions and doing constant discovery all day, based off the very little description they provided in their posting. All this is to say, I should have been more careful. I am just a bit surprised something like this would happen. I feel like I may dodged a bullet working for this firm to be honest. I was not upset, just in disgust and in awe, but I'm glad I could share this experience.

Thanks for the feedback!

[cavalier1138]

This sounds like a very elaborate psychology experiment. Please let us know if you return to the building next week and find empty offices.

[nixy]

^this.

OP, they’re not going to circulate it in the legal community. I’ve never heard of this ever happening and basically almost all the lawyers I know would fail anything with complex shapes and math. I don’t even see how that could be remotely relevant.

[Anonymous User]

This makes a lot of sense. I’ve heard of these standardized tests being used in employment before though. My bet would be like an accounting firm. I’m not sure if any reputable law firm would use it though, and if so why. What I am about to mention below, a certain type of personality test, more so is used in other professions as well more frequently such as the OAD. My guess would be typical accounting firms also use personality tests alongside with some standardized tests for pre-employment offers.

A bit earlier in my interview cycles, I did apply to be a staff attorney for a local nonprofit, and I was to take a OAD test, a test to have to do with personality types. Not sure you could really fail that test though; however, they probably would be less prone to hire a certain personality type more so than another. The test was completely digitalized though instead of being on paper like this one. Nor was I duped into thinking an interview would occur first. I just had to take this test when submitting my application online. Never really did hear back from them either, but I doubt it had anything to do with the test. Not sure how much a test like this is really used for developmental purposes as much as it would be used to ding a certain personality type from joining employment, but since I do recall being given another test for a lawyer job, asides from this one, although this one was a standardized one, I will definitely be more cautious.

But, like the poster above said, I hope this does not circulate. I can only imagine there being a questionare during my next associate attorney interview stating, “Do you feel __________? Pick one, Agree, Strongly Agree, Disagree, Strongly Disagree, Kind if Disagree, etc..”. You get the point. What’s worse than this is that after this, they throw in a similar standardized test as I took last week. Oh boy.

https://oadllc.com/pdf/burosreview.pdf

^^ Explaining the OAD test I took in detail for the nonprofit position.^^

[2013]

I would out this firm.

[FND]

doesn't surprise me that some small firms do this. I'd instantly think less of them. it's a crutch, and if they're relying on a crutch for something as important as hiring a new attorney, they're probably relying on plenty of other crutches too. It's a job, so if there's no other options, take it, but, if you can choose between there and somewhere else, go somewhere else