Wilmer v. Kirkland v. Weil v. Paul Weiss (Bankruptcy) Forum

[OsamaJerry]

Have offers at all 4 in bankruptcy. Want to know which is best, but assume it's going to be Kirkland.

[Anonymous User]

If debtor-side ---> Weil

Anything else ---> Kirkland

[Mullens]

If debtor-side ---> Weil

Anything else ---> Kirkland

Doesn’t Kirkland also do mostly debtor-side work? Not sure when you’re starting but Weil is severely understaffed rn.

[Anonymous User]

Midlevel at one of these. Summered at another. Spent junior years at a V5 not on the list. Kind of depends on what kind of work you want to do. Not Wilmer though

[OsamaJerry]

Really? Everyone's for Kirkland? I don't get the hate for Weil. I really liked the vibe there and the people. They also get all the huge bankruptcies. But I understand that Kirkland recently took over and has a higher ranking and is better staffed. Vibe didn't seem as good, but it's also a bit of a sales pitch.

[Anonymous User]

Really? Everyone's for Kirkland? I don't get the hate for Weil. I really liked the vibe there and the people. They also get all the huge bankruptcies. But I understand that Kirkland recently took over and has a higher ranking and is better staffed. Vibe didn't seem as good, but it's also a bit of a sales pitch.

Hours at both can be brutal. Might as well get the larger bonus

[Miss-Bubbled]

Really? Everyone's for Kirkland? I don't get the hate for Weil. I really liked the vibe there and the people. They also get all the huge bankruptcies. But I understand that Kirkland recently took over and has a higher ranking and is better staffed. Vibe didn't seem as good, but it's also a bit of a sales pitch.

I may have made a huge mistake, but I recently chose a V25 over a V5 based primarily on the people (haven’t started yet so it’s hard to know). I think you are going to work very hard and will probably get great quality work at Kirkland or Weil. At the end of the day, you want to spend your time with people you like. If the vibe wasn’t great during the sales pitch, I don’t anticipate it getting any better. That said, you could end up disappointed with the people at Weil once the honeymoon phase is over.

[Anonymous User]

I assume this is for NYC and you're coming off a SDNY/DE clerkship? Or we talking Hou/Chi? Location matters and you haven't really talked about what you want out of a firm. What kind of work are you looking to do? Does department size matter? Is it all about prestige? Etc.

[yooobagz]

I do not work at Kirkland myself, but I have many friends in their restructuring group and have met with or worked with many of those attorneys, and they all seem to be very smart, driven people who do quality work and seem to enjoy what they do. It seems you'll never be wanting for hours and (based on my experience trying to schedule dinner with friends and whatnot) it certainly can or will be a brutal experience at times, but it seems like a place where people do genuinely get into the work being done.

Anecdotally, I have heard that their last couple of restructuring classes have been "oversubscribed" (not entirely sure what this means), so it may actually be a slightly slower period to jump in before the interest rates go up (and bankruptcy filings with it).

[Anonymous User]

Answer really depends on what you are looking for.

If you want debtor work then Kirkland and Weil are both the clear answers. I would say go with the group with the people that you liked the best. Both groups are fantastic and are the go-to debtor shops. Kirkland also does a decent amount of creditor side work, so if you are unsure I would say choose Kirkland.

Paul Weiss (other than probably Davis Polk) is arguably the top creditor shop, but also does some Debtor side work. A lot of ad hoc reps, both secured and unsecured groups, both in and out of court.

While I generally agree that I would not go with Wilmer, I will say they are probably the top bankruptcy litigation/appellate practice. They have done most of the recent bankruptcy cases that have gone up to SCOTUS. Its a small group, but a bit more litigation focused than the rest of these guys.

[Anonymous User]

Answer really depends on what you are looking for.

If you want debtor work then Kirkland and Weil are both the clear answers. I would say go with the group with the people that you liked the best. Both groups are fantastic and are the go-to debtor shops. Kirkland also does a decent amount of creditor side work, so if you are unsure I would say choose Kirkland.

Paul Weiss (other than probably Davis Polk) is arguably the top creditor shop, but also does some Debtor side work. A lot of ad hoc reps, both secured and unsecured groups, both in and out of court.

While I generally agree that I would not go with Wilmer, I will say they are probably the top bankruptcy litigation/appellate practice. They have done most of the recent bankruptcy cases that have gone up to SCOTUS. Its a small group, but a bit more litigation focused than the rest of these guys.

Thanks. Would you mind telling us your seniority level and whether you're at one of these firms?

[Anonymous User]

Weil/Kirkland will work you to death. Weil in particular has had a lot of departures lately. The associates there are miserable.

The Wilmer NYC crew is notoriously awful.

[Anonymous User]

Answer really depends on what you are looking for.

If you want debtor work then Kirkland and Weil are both the clear answers. I would say go with the group with the people that you liked the best. Both groups are fantastic and are the go-to debtor shops. Kirkland also does a decent amount of creditor side work, so if you are unsure I would say choose Kirkland.

Paul Weiss (other than probably Davis Polk) is arguably the top creditor shop, but also does some Debtor side work. A lot of ad hoc reps, both secured and unsecured groups, both in and out of court.

While I generally agree that I would not go with Wilmer, I will say they are probably the top bankruptcy litigation/appellate practice. They have done most of the recent bankruptcy cases that have gone up to SCOTUS. Its a small group, but a bit more litigation focused than the rest of these guys.

Thanks. Would you mind telling us your seniority level and whether you're at one of these firms?

Midlevel not at one of these firms. Have seen (as a former SDNY/DE clerk) or worked across from all of these firms.

[OsamaJerry]

I assume this is for NYC and you're coming off a SDNY/DE clerkship? Or we talking Hou/Chi? Location matters and you haven't really talked about what you want out of a firm. What kind of work are you looking to do? Does department size matter? Is it all about prestige? Etc.

Not all are NYC. Kirkland is Chicago. The rest are NYC. Liked Chicago. Lived there a bit and have some familiarity with the city. I want to have opportunity and responsibility but not too much too early. Kirkland right now is seeming like the place to go. Prestige is not everything, but I want to do large debtor work.

[OsamaJerry]

Midlevel not at one of these firms. Have seen (as a former SDNY/DE clerk) or worked across from all of these firms.

What is your general impression of the folks you've met and what they've said about their experiences. Also, what would you say about your experience at a large bankruptcy firm? Hours? Responsibility?

[Anonymous User]

As a Weil BFR associate I’m interested as to why KE is kicking our asses so hard in the poll. Is it really that much less shittt there than it is here?

[OsamaJerry]

As a Weil BFR associate I’m interested as to why KE is kicking our asses so hard in the poll. Is it really that much less shittt there than it is here?

Is it Shittty at Weil right now?

[jarofsoup]

I would advocate for Paul Weiss. They are heavily involved in a lot of cases on the ad hoc/creditor side. I am sure they have some debtor capacity. They are also prestigious and all that jazz. Kirkland and Weill are intense Debtor practices. I know that the personalities in both are difficult. Also exit options from Debtor shops are pretty poor.

[Anonymous User]

As a Weil BFR associate I’m interested as to why KE is kicking our asses so hard in the poll. Is it really that much less shittt there than it is here?

Is it Shittty at Weil right now?

I'm at Kirkland, not in BK but work with them semi-regularly, and have friends at Weil in BFR - yes it's much less shitty at Kirkland. The BK teams are much better staffed at Kirkland and the higher bonus certainly helps. I believe the Weil BFR associates asked for a higher bonus this past bonus season to reflect their insane hours and were promptly rebuffed. This certainly damaged my friends' morale.

[Anonymous User]

Midlevel not at one of these firms. Have seen (as a former SDNY/DE clerk) or worked across from all of these firms.

What is your general impression of the folks you've met and what they've said about their experiences. Also, what would you say about your experience at a large bankruptcy firm? Hours? Responsibility?

Have friends at Kirkland who absolutely love it and a few who left after a year. From what I have heard, 3000 hours a year is the unofficial target for the group. I don't personally know anybody at Weil, but sounds like associates are getting crushed and a lot of associates have been leaving. But I would imagine Kirkland has some of the same problems (but has a giant first year class each year so it can better afford it). I've come accross one or two very difficult personalities at Paul Weiss, but that may have just been deal specific. As a junior I would imagine life would be a bit better then K&E/Weil and you probably aren't stuck working on 10 different utilities motions at once.

I am at a v25 that does mainly creditor work. Averaged around 2300 hours a year and have worked on some of the more litigious mega chapter 11s. I think experience at a large bankruptcy firm can vary greatly depending on matters you get staffed on/partners you work for. For example, I was staffed on these longer drawn out mega cases so a lot of my experience was in chapter 11, litigating, filing objections, etc. Another associate my same year has been staffed on a lot of out-of-court deals and has had almost zero litigation experience.

I agree with Jarofsoup--If it were me I would go with PW. Doing debtor work at K&E or Weil (as a junior) doesn't seem very interesting to me.

[Anonymous User]

The Wilmer NYC crew is notoriously awful.

What about them in particular -- personalities or their work product?

[Anonymous User]

I am in Weil BFR and would recommend Weil or KE from this list, particularly if you want to do debtor side work, though we do a fair amount of sponsor/creditor side work as well. Paul Weiss also isn't a bad choice and they are doing some debtor stuff now as well after picking up Basta from KE. I don't see any reason to take Wilkie over the other choices unless you significantly preferred the people.

Between Weil and KE, I would take Weil but I'm obviously biased to some degree. Go with KE if you like Chicago and Weil if you like NYC. Also, one point to note is that KE's group is substantially larger than ours and their deals are staffed with more associates. So that's an obvious pro from the workload perspective, but it also means you're going to be getting a lot of the less desirable work pushed down on you. Happy to answer any specific questions too.

[Anonymous User]

Do you recommend Weil's BFR group generally? Would you choose it again if you knew what you know now?

[Anonymous User]

Do you recommend Weil's BFR group generally? Would you choose it again if you knew what you know now?

Yes. I personally find restructuring to be a substantially more interesting practice area than basically anything else so I would definitely do that again. Within restructuring, I think it’s Weil and KE then everyone else, and while I haven’t worked at KE, I’ve worked with them and have friends there, and I personally wouldn’t want to work there in that group. I have my complaints about Weil and BFR (workload can be insane, for example), but the training I’ve gotten has been fantastic and the group is doing as well as it’s ever done from a business perspective. I also genuinely like pretty much everyone I work with and I think we have a very good culture.

[Anonymous User]

Do you recommend Weil's BFR group generally? Would you choose it again if you knew what you know now?

Yes. I personally find restructuring to be a substantially more interesting practice area than basically anything else so I would definitely do that again. Within restructuring, I think it’s Weil and KE then everyone else, and while I haven’t worked at KE, I’ve worked with them and have friends there, and I personally wouldn’t want to work there in that group. I have my complaints about Weil and BFR (workload can be insane, for example), but the training I’ve gotten has been fantastic and the group is doing as well as it’s ever done from a business perspective. I also genuinely like pretty much everyone I work with and I think we have a very good culture.

How many hours have you billed the last few years (and what year/level are you)? Any idea what other associates in the group are billing?