The dark side Forum

[coramnonjudice]

I hear a lot of folks talking about going into biglaw and even mid-size/smaller regional firms, government, etc. on this site, but never really hear anything about plaintiff's firms. I've been tossing around the idea of going to the dark side but can't find any reliable information about what life as a plaintiff's lawyer is like (other than the high-end boutiques sometimes vaguely referenced here). Obviously there isn't a guaranteed, steady income and the initial pay is less, but I see a lot of moronic PLs consistently making bank despite filing horrible briefs that barely cite any case law. It seems like some of the high-achieving BL associates could really excel as plaintiff attorneys?

What am I missing here guys? Are we all just too risk-averse?

[Lacepiece23]

I hear a lot of folks talking about going into biglaw and even mid-size/smaller regional firms, government, etc. on this site, but never really hear anything about plaintiff's firms. I've been tossing around the idea of going to the dark side but can't find any reliable information about what life as a plaintiff's lawyer is like (other than the high-end boutiques sometimes vaguely referenced here). Obviously there isn't a guaranteed, steady income and the initial pay is less, but I see a lot of moronic PLs consistently making bank despite filing horrible briefs that barely cite any case law. It seems like some of the high-achieving BL associates could really excel as plaintiff attorneys?

What am I missing here guys? Are we all just too risk-averse?

Yes, and we like prestige. I've been thinking about it a lot lately. There seems to be much less competition on the other side.

[nixy]

I’m spitballing, but (depending on your market and the firms you’re thinking about I’d imagine) it seems to me that successful PI work depends a lot on managing clients and volume of cases, and I don’t know that most biglaw associates feel especially good at either of those things. (That is, they’re very different kinds of clients.)

[r6_philly]

I’m spitballing, but (depending on your market and the firms you’re thinking about I’d imagine) it seems to me that successful PI work depends a lot on managing clients and volume of cases, and I don’t know that most biglaw associates feel especially good at either of those things. (That is, they’re very different kinds of clients.)

Successful PI work depends on attracting good clients, picking the right cases, and managing them with as little resources as possible. And tolerance for risk and deferred payments. Biglaw teaches us to be risk adverse and have a different set of priorities.

I do think biglaw associates can make great PI lawyers, as long as they can still function the same within the different set of constrains. I believe that better quality work will ultimately generate better results, and over time a practice have a good chance to prosper.

And, it's the LIGHT side. Insurance defense is the dark side.

[nealric]

I hear a lot of folks talking about going into biglaw and even mid-size/smaller regional firms, government, etc. on this site, but never really hear anything about plaintiff's firms. I've been tossing around the idea of going to the dark side but can't find any reliable information about what life as a plaintiff's lawyer is like (other than the high-end boutiques sometimes vaguely referenced here). Obviously there isn't a guaranteed, steady income and the initial pay is less, but I see a lot of moronic PLs consistently making bank despite filing horrible briefs that barely cite any case law. It seems like some of the high-achieving BL associates could really excel as plaintiff attorneys?

What am I missing here guys? Are we all just too risk-averse?

People rarely talk about plaintiff's side stuff simply because good plaintiffs firms hire far fewer brand new lawyers. Even the high end plaintiff's boutiques (i.e. Sussman) that do hire new lawyers often require a clerkship- they don't want to deal with training someone who is completely green because they are much leaner operations from biglaw and they actually benefit from efficiency (while biglaw benefits from inefficiency).

Keep in mind there's a big difference between a PI settlement mill and a high-end plaintiff's firm. Sloppy briefs are the norm at a settlement mill- it's all about keeping the volume of cases up. You are more likely to settle 50 car accident cases for an average of $10,000 each than to settle one $500,000 case- you don't have time to write brilliant briefs for all 50- barely adequate is more likely. At the higher end firms, they tend to swing for the fences, which can mean very lumpy income, but also more legally interesting work.

Many biglaw associates can and do make good plaintiff's lawyers but they are often different personalities. Joe Jamail was quoted as having lasted "about two weeks" in biglaw. The most successful plaintiff's lawyers have to be smart, but they also tend to have personalities that don't jive in large organizational structures. On the other hand, most biglaw attorneys who love writing complex briefs on legal nuances might find organizing a large PI docket stultifying.

[PeanutsNJam]

There’s a difference between (successful) personal injury firms and boutiques like Susman or Bartlit that do plaintiffs work (antitrust, IP lit, etc). The latter is hyper selective. The former is all tiny <10 lawyers offices.

[r6_philly]

There’s a difference between (successful) personal injury firms and boutiques like Susman or Bartlit that do plaintiffs work (antitrust, IP lit, etc). The latter is hyper selective. The former is all tiny <10 lawyers offices.

Actually at least in my neck of the woods successful PI firms are a bit larger:

42 @ Kline and Spector
31 @ Saltz Mongeluzzi Barrett & Bendesky

A few others that comes to mind that does med mal cases are quote sizeable too.

[Anonymous User]

Speaking of which, what are the top plaintiffs firms in DC? Junior in biglaw wanting to make the switch, but not to any run of the mill auto accident shop. However credentials slightly below necessary for Susman for example.

[albanach]

Actually at least in my neck of the woods successful PI firms are a bit larger:

42 @ Kline and Spector
31 @ Saltz Mongeluzzi Barrett & Bendesky

A few others that comes to mind that does med mal cases are quote sizeable too.

If they have the volume for that many lawyers, they probably also have (a) a sizeable marketing budget, and (b) lots of referrals through word of mouth.

A new firm needs to compete against both of those.

[r6_philly]

Actually at least in my neck of the woods successful PI firms are a bit larger:

42 @ Kline and Spector
31 @ Saltz Mongeluzzi Barrett & Bendesky

A few others that comes to mind that does med mal cases are quote sizeable too.

If they have the volume for that many lawyers, they probably also have (a) a sizeable marketing budget, and (b) lots of referrals through word of mouth.

A new firm needs to compete against both of those.

I agree. Even I was thinking about referring to them. (PA allows the payment of true referral fees, which is probably they are that big) If some of you want to leave biglaw and join me to compete, you know where to find me

[BlackAndOrange84]

There’s a difference between (successful) personal injury firms and boutiques like Susman or Bartlit that do plaintiffs work (antitrust, IP lit, etc). The latter is hyper selective. The former is all tiny <10 lawyers offices.

Actually at least in my neck of the woods successful PI firms are a bit larger:

42 @ Kline and Spector
31 @ Saltz Mongeluzzi Barrett & Bendesky

A few others that comes to mind that does med mal cases are quote sizeable too.

I think this is a good piece of anecdata that fits in with what I've seen: although there aren't tons and tons of firms that qualify, there is a respectable midground between low-end PI work and boutique jobs like Susman. At the higher end and quite close to Susman, there are also a handful of firms you don't hear about as much that are competitive and recruit clerks for high-end antitrust class actions and securities litigation, like Cohen Milstein.