In-house Litigation/Investigations Lawyer, Taking Qs Forum

[Anonymous User]

Slow day in the office so I thought I'd open up a thread for folks to ask questions about in-house litigation/investigations work. I'm a mid-level attorney at an F500 company doing a combination of litigation and internal investigations work. Job is terrific, and since lots of people ask questions about going in-house as a litigator but it seems few people on here have that experience, I figured I'd try to answer questions if folks have them!

[Elston Gunn]

Thanks for taking Qs.

Can you describe the types of internal investigations you do? I assume they’re quite different from (or at least much smaller than) the matters that would be handled by outside counsel.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for taking Qs.

Can you describe the types of internal investigations you do? I assume they’re quite different from (or at least much smaller than) the matters that would be handled by outside counsel.

Absolutely. My role actually involves both types of investigations (which in standard in my industry but maybe not in all roles like this one). I generally will myself, assisted by a small team, conduct internal investigations where the allegation is a violation of state or federal regulations or certain of our company's own compliance policies. Where those investigations get quite large or where we are engaging with the government -- either the government is investigating us or we are disclosing something to the government -- I'll engage outside counsel and I'll supervise their work and focus on strategy and interfacing with the relevant business lanes. I was worried litigation work in-house would be mostly project management and less hands-on, so I was glad at least at my company that it's not like that.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for taking Qs.

Can you describe the types of internal investigations you do? I assume they’re quite different from (or at least much smaller than) the matters that would be handled by outside counsel.

Absolutely. My role actually involves both types of investigations (which in standard in my industry but maybe not in all roles like this one). I generally will myself, assisted by a small team, conduct internal investigations where the allegation is a violation of state or federal regulations or certain of our company's own compliance policies. Where those investigations get quite large or where we are engaging with the government -- either the government is investigating us or we are disclosing something to the government -- I'll engage outside counsel and I'll supervise their work and focus on strategy and interfacing with the relevant business lanes. I was worried litigation work in-house would be mostly project management and less hands-on, so I was glad at least at my company that it's not like that.

Mind talking about how many years of biglaw you did before making the move and what the comp is like? Curious how it relates to the in-house comp we have seen from some transactional attorneys on the forum.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for taking Qs.

Can you describe the types of internal investigations you do? I assume they’re quite different from (or at least much smaller than) the matters that would be handled by outside counsel.

Absolutely. My role actually involves both types of investigations (which in standard in my industry but maybe not in all roles like this one). I generally will myself, assisted by a small team, conduct internal investigations where the allegation is a violation of state or federal regulations or certain of our company's own compliance policies. Where those investigations get quite large or where we are engaging with the government -- either the government is investigating us or we are disclosing something to the government -- I'll engage outside counsel and I'll supervise their work and focus on strategy and interfacing with the relevant business lanes. I was worried litigation work in-house would be mostly project management and less hands-on, so I was glad at least at my company that it's not like that.

Mind talking about how many years of biglaw you did before making the move and what the comp is like? Curious how it relates to the in-house comp we have seen from some transactional attorneys on the forum.

I moved in-house after about 5 years of private practice in biglaw. I also clerked straight out of law school, so 6ish years total. I was litigating in the same general industry I work in now, but the company I moved to wasn't a client or anything.

All-in comp is between $170-180k a year, most of that being salary with a 10-15% bonus pool. Benefits are substantially better than at the law firm as well. I'll be up for a promotion in 2 years or so that would jump my comp about $20k, but to go any higher than $225k or so I'll likely have to switch companies because we have a relatively flat compensation structure until you get into the SVP/GC level. I believe I'm paid the same as the corporate attorneys at my same level here, but haven't asked around.

Moving in-house was a big pay cut from my firm, but I live in a large city that isn't on the coasts, so the money goes pretty far here. And the hours can't be beat. With rare exceptions, I work 8:30-4:30, with some travel. I do check my phone a bit in the evenings and on weekends, but it's nothing like biglaw.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for taking Qs.

Can you describe the types of internal investigations you do? I assume they’re quite different from (or at least much smaller than) the matters that would be handled by outside counsel.

Absolutely. My role actually involves both types of investigations (which in standard in my industry but maybe not in all roles like this one). I generally will myself, assisted by a small team, conduct internal investigations where the allegation is a violation of state or federal regulations or certain of our company's own compliance policies. Where those investigations get quite large or where we are engaging with the government -- either the government is investigating us or we are disclosing something to the government -- I'll engage outside counsel and I'll supervise their work and focus on strategy and interfacing with the relevant business lanes. I was worried litigation work in-house would be mostly project management and less hands-on, so I was glad at least at my company that it's not like that.

Mind talking about how many years of biglaw you did before making the move and what the comp is like? Curious how it relates to the in-house comp we have seen from some transactional attorneys on the forum.

I moved in-house after about 5 years of private practice in biglaw. I also clerked straight out of law school, so 6ish years total. I was litigating in the same general industry I work in now, but the company I moved to wasn't a client or anything.

All-in comp is between $170-180k a year, most of that being salary with a 10-15% bonus pool. Benefits are substantially better than at the law firm as well. I'll be up for a promotion in 2 years or so that would jump my comp about $20k, but to go any higher than $225k or so I'll likely have to switch companies because we have a relatively flat compensation structure until you get into the SVP/GC level. I believe I'm paid the same as the corporate attorneys at my same level here, but haven't asked around.

Moving in-house was a big pay cut from my firm, but I live in a large city that isn't on the coasts, so the money goes pretty far here. And the hours can't be beat. With rare exceptions, I work 8:30-4:30, with some travel. I do check my phone a bit in the evenings and on weekends, but it's nothing like biglaw.

Sounds like a great gig, especially with those hours! Comp is comparable to what we have seen in the other in-house thread minus some kind of equity piece. An additional 20% equity piece puts you right in the range we have seen in the in-house thread for corporate associates generally. Also, not sure what city you are in, so that could make a world of difference.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for creating this forum. Is it substantially more difficult to find an in-house position for lit lawyers? What advice would you provide for younger lawyers looking to make a similar move?

[Anonymous User]

What sort of work is most transferrable from firm life in the work you do?

How'd you get it? / in your search for in-house gigs, what were some ways you could seek this work out (recruiters/websites)?

Are there any attorneys junior to you that are also at your company?


Thanks!

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for creating this forum. Is it substantially more difficult to find an in-house position for lit lawyers? What advice would you provide for younger lawyers looking to make a similar move?

OP here. Yes, it's more difficult. At my company, for example, we have maybe 15 attorneys who touch litigation (including our employment folks). We've got probably 50 in corporate/regulatory. I think that mix is fairly common at big companies. It doesn't take that many lawyers to supervise outside counsel, even in a company that litigates often.

I hadn't originally planned on going in-house, so I didn't structure my work early in my career to maximize my chance to do so. That said, there are definitely ways to do it. Employment and investigations lawyers are by far the most in demand. Work on internal investigations at your firm. Try to work for clients in heavily regulated industries (oil & gas, healthcare, consumer products, etc.); those types of companies will have more in-house opportunities. It's substantially harder to move in-house as just a "generalist" litigator who doesn't have some sort of specific skill or industry expertise.

[Anonymous User]

What sort of work is most transferrable from firm life in the work you do?

How'd you get it? / in your search for in-house gigs, what were some ways you could seek this work out (recruiters/websites)?

Are there any attorneys junior to you that are also at your company?

Thanks!

I feel like the most useful skills were litigation management skills -- I worked on some MDLs and class action cases, and being the mid-level in charge of project management was a very useful transferable skill for in-house litigation work. I manage the internal teams, gathering information, the business side, strategy, and outside counsel, not to mention budgeting. In contrast, I haven't written anything resembling a brief since I arrived, though I've substantially edited written work for internal and external audiences. I found that a lot of my interview questions were related to how I could function as a manager within the business rather than just as a subject matter expert.

In terms of how I got it, I probably looked casually for 8 months or so before landing this position. I own a home and am building a life in my city (think a Minneapolis/Nashville/Phoenix size legal market) so was only looking here, and there weren't a ton of opportunities. This was only the 3rd or 4th position I actually applied for. I didn't work with a recruiter and cold-applied, though I had a friend who worked on the business side put in a good word for me -- unclear if that helped at all. Ultimately, they were looking for someone slightly senior to me but I was able to convince them I wanted to spend a few years growing at the company, which was true.

Yes, there are attorneys junior to me. We don't hire entry-level folks, but do have a few people 2-3 years out of law school. I'd say most common path at this company is to join somewhere between 6-8 years of experience, but some of our team were previously biglaw partners and some were quite junior associates.

[Anonymous User]

Interesting post. I’m also in-house doing similar work and we have a similar career trajectory. A couple more inside baseball questions:

1) Isn’t it crazy how much power the government investigators have to force you to spend money responding to them, even with them never telling you any suggestion at what you’ve allegedly done wrong? Any experience with that you can share?
2) On your internal investigations, are you viewed by employees as a ‘friend’ or more adversarial like you’re determining what they did wrong? Are you “punitive”? How does that affect your reputation/life at the company?

[Anonymous User]

Interesting post. I’m also in-house doing similar work and we have a similar career trajectory. A couple more inside baseball questions:

1) Isn’t it crazy how much power the government investigators have to force you to spend money responding to them, even with them never telling you any suggestion at what you’ve allegedly done wrong? Any experience with that you can share?
2) On your internal investigations, are you viewed by employees as a ‘friend’ or more adversarial like you’re determining what they did wrong? Are you “punitive”? How does that affect your reputation/life at the company?

As to 1, yes, it's pretty amazing. I will say though that I've found most of the government regulators/AUSAs/DOJ folks who I've been across the table from to be relatively reasonable. But just one bad one creates a whole slew of problems and millions of dollars in unnecessary expenses. Nothing I can share that wouldn't likely out me or disclose confidential info. The general issue I've been most frustrated by is investigations that run on for years, racking up millions in costs, where the government refuses to engage with the actual legal issues. Those fishing expeditions are incredibly frustrating, and are a major driver in my life of people on the business side being distrustful of regulators.

As to 2, I'd say most employees view me like they would internal affairs. They're reluctant to talk to me and don't think I have their best interests at heart. And generally it's my call (alongside my partner in whatever business lane I'm looking into) whether someone gets terminated. That said, my reputation is better than several of my colleagues in no small part because I'm less overly confrontational in my investigative process. It's amazing to me how many attorneys haven't learned that people are much more likely to tell you shit when you're civil towards them. For that reason, a decent number of folks at the company come to me directly with issues on their teams, since I'm able to navigate the interpersonal interactions better than some other folks.