Cleary or Debevoise Intl Arbitration/Dispute Res Forum

[am0510]

Hey guys! Hoping for a bit of help here. Interested in international dispute res/Intl arbitration/public intl law and deciding between Cleary and debevoise. Loved the people at both, but felt Cleary was a bit better of a cultural fit. I'm not sure how much their intl arbitration work (non commercial, particularly sovereign and investor state) has grown and so any and all advice would be so so helpful. Many thanks!!

[Anonymous User]

I don't have anything to contribute, but I was wondering if you have relevant experience in IA and expressed your interest in your interviews? I'm also interested but was worried that this is a much smaller/niche area so expressing interest here might foreclose my opportunities at many big firms. Thanks!

[Anonymous User]

Well, just going off Chambers, Debevoise is Band 1 US and Global for International Arbitration, and Cleary is Band 3/4 depending on where you look. https://www.chambersandpartners.com/127 ... torial/5/1.

Personally, I also don't know many people going to Cleary for International Arbitration, but my understanding is that there is some activity in the practice group there. Cleary is also a pretty international firm generally, particularly in their corporate department, so if you think you might want to do corporate, Cleary may be the better option here just for its international corporate work. Debevoise seems a lot better for arbitration though.

[Anonymous User]

Deb by a million miles. Not even close in terms of quality of the work.

But be warned: the IDRG group at Deb is incredibly and notoriously prestige obsessed and insular — don’t assume you can just waltz into it.

[Anonymous User]

Deb by a million miles. Not even close in terms of quality of the work.

But be warned: the IDRG group at Deb is incredibly and notoriously prestige obsessed and insular — don’t assume you can just waltz into it.

I'd add that at Debevoise, you should make a concerted effort to do IDRG work as a summer associate, if that's what you're interested in doing when you return (same goes for tax at Debevoise).

[am0510]

I don't have anything to contribute, but I was wondering if you have relevant experience in IA and expressed your interest in your interviews? I'm also interested but was worried that this is a much smaller/niche area so expressing interest here might foreclose my opportunities at many big firms. Thanks!

I did express my interest in interviews (my resume is heavily internationally focused) and so have been chatting with the people who do work in IA in both.

[am0510]

Deb by a million miles. Not even close in terms of quality of the work.

But be warned: the IDRG group at Deb is incredibly and notoriously prestige obsessed and insular — don’t assume you can just waltz into it.

I'd add that at Debevoise, you should make a concerted effort to do IDRG work as a summer associate, if that's what you're interested in doing when you return (same goes for tax at Debevoise).

This is very helpful! Do you think with Cleary it would be easier to break in to their IDR group? I definitely got the feeling that the Deb IDR group was hard to break into, even though that is what I would look to do as an SA.

[Anonymous User]

Just exhibit interest and you’ll get staffed on stuff. No real insight about cleary. Have recruiting connect you with an IDR associate there and just ask.

[Anonymous User]

Deb by a million miles. Not even close in terms of quality of the work.

But be warned: the IDRG group at Deb is incredibly and notoriously prestige obsessed and insular — don’t assume you can just waltz into it.

I'd add that at Debevoise, you should make a concerted effort to do IDRG work as a summer associate, if that's what you're interested in doing when you return (same goes for tax at Debevoise).

This is very helpful! Do you think with Cleary it would be easier to break in to their IDR group? I definitely got the feeling that the Deb IDR group was hard to break into, even though that is what I would look to do as an SA.

Don't say no to Deb on the basis that the group will be too difficult to enter. It's true that IDRG associates tend to have more "prestigious" resumes, on average, than associates from other groups. But if you have an international background and you express genuine enthusiasm in the practice, you'll be fine. Obviously, the more you can acquaint yourself with the field before your summer, the more confident you'll feel going in. If your school has a subscription, I'd suggest you start reading Global Arbitration Review (GAR).

But returning to your original question, there is no doubt that Deb is a better choice than Cleary for IDR. For one thing, the Cleary IDR practice is centered in Cleary's Paris office, whereas Deb's is centered in NY. Cleary NY does a good amount of federal court litigation involving international matters, but nowhere near as much international arbitration as Deb. Cleary would probably be the better choice if you wanted to do international transactional work, but if you're committed to IDR, you should go to Deb.