Tax LLM options w/ offer in hand (3L) Forum

[NickAwesome]

Hi all,

I'm looking for advice on Tax LLM programs. I want to be a tax attorney. Initially I was told that the firm I was working for would hire me on the condition I obtain an LLM in tax. I was just informed today that they want to hire me regardless whether I get the LLM or not. We will be finalizing the offer in the next few weeks but they want me to decide on whether I want to get the LLM now or delay it for a few years. I also need to decide on whether I want to do an in person program or do an online program and potentially work "part-time". Mostly I'm looking for advice on potentially getting the firm to cover some of all of the costs of the LLM, whether I should do it now or later, and whether I am better off doing it in person/online. I will be employed in the Pacific NW.

Initially my plan was to go to University of Washington and get my LLM there as that is where many of the attorneys I will be working with got their LLM. Several of them also got their degree online. If I already have a good job lined up, does it really matter where I go? Is it sufficient to get an online LLM? My firm is mid-sized so likely I can't get them to foot the entire bill but I likely can work something out. Anyone got recommendations?

[nealric]

Hi all,

I'm looking for advice on Tax LLM programs. I want to be a tax attorney. Initially I was told that the firm I was working for would hire me on the condition I obtain an LLM in tax. I was just informed today that they want to hire me regardless whether I get the LLM or not. We will be finalizing the offer in the next few weeks but they want me to decide on whether I want to get the LLM now or delay it for a few years. I also need to decide on whether I want to do an in person program or do an online program and potentially work "part-time". Mostly I'm looking for advice on potentially getting the firm to cover some of all of the costs of the LLM, whether I should do it now or later, and whether I am better off doing it in person/online. I will be employed in the Pacific NW.

Initially my plan was to go to University of Washington and get my LLM there as that is where many of the attorneys I will be working with got their LLM. Several of them also got their degree online. If I already have a good job lined up, does it really matter where I go? Is it sufficient to get an online LLM? My firm is mid-sized so likely I can't get them to foot the entire bill but I likely can work something out. Anyone got recommendations?

I'd just do NYU online in this case. Better to get instruction from the very top practitioners, and it will also be less disruptive to your practice than a brick and mortar LLM.

[NickAwesome]

Yeah, that's definitely one option. My one concern is I think NYU might be overkill for the Pacific NW market. And prohibitively expensive. The online program is 60k+. I don't think I can get the firm to foot a bill like that- maybe split the costs- No one at my firm will have an NYU degree and very few of the prominent practitioners in my city have an NYU degree. You see the occasional Georgetown but it's mostly University of Washington. I think I got to go back to my firm and see how much they want to pitch in, that will probably guide my decision.

[QContinuum]

My one concern is I think NYU might be overkill for the Pacific NW market.

Given the extent to which the legal market is prestige-driven (prestige-obsessed?), I don't think there's really such a thing as "overkill"/"too much prestige." At most, there might be a bit of concern over whether you're a flight risk, but as long as you can sell your intent to stay with the firm/in the PNW generally, you should be fine on that front. Besides, you already have the job offer in hand... it's not like they'd rescind your offer for the audacity of proposing to attend the #1 Tax LLM program in the country.

Down the road, an NYU Tax LLM may well help keep more doors open than a University of Washington Tax LLM. I'd lean strongly in favor of NYU.

[nealric]

Yeah, that's definitely one option. My one concern is I think NYU might be overkill for the Pacific NW market. And prohibitively expensive. The online program is 60k+. I don't think I can get the firm to foot a bill like that- maybe split the costs- No one at my firm will have an NYU degree and very few of the prominent practitioners in my city have an NYU degree. You see the occasional Georgetown but it's mostly University of Washington. I think I got to go back to my firm and see how much they want to pitch in, that will probably guide my decision.

If NYU LLMs are rare in the Pacific Northwest, that's all the more reason to do one in my book. You will stand out in a good way. But the cost concern is valid. If they will pay half, I don't think that would be a terrible investment. You can learn tax from a book- you don't need to get any degree. But the real value of the LLM is hearing how some of the most prominent practitioners in the country practice.

[Anonymous User]

No idea how this would apply to an LLM, but when I was applying to Seattle, firms had huge chips on their shoulder about how prestigious UW was. I grew up in Seattle, got my undergrad at UW, and got a lot of questions about why I went to NYU if I wanted to work in Seattle. (Questions including, "did you not get into UW?" or "Why NYU over UW? Why not stay in the area?"). I don't think I ever gave an answer that resonated. I did quite well at OCI overall, but didn't get a single offer in Seattle.

Point being that NYU's LLM is extremely expensive and if you already have a good job in Seattle, the NYU LLM might not actually go that far in Seattle, which has a weird anti-prestige bias. Maybe I just got unlucky with strange interviewers, though.

[NickAwesome]

No idea how this would apply to an LLM, but when I was applying to Seattle, firms had huge chips on their shoulder about how prestigious UW was. I grew up in Seattle, got my undergrad at UW, and got a lot of questions about why I went to NYU if I wanted to work in Seattle. (Questions including, "did you not get into UW?" or "Why NYU over UW? Why not stay in the area?"). I don't think I ever gave an answer that resonated. I did quite well at OCI overall, but didn't get a single offer in Seattle.

Point being that NYU's LLM is extremely expensive and if you already have a good job in Seattle, the NYU LLM might not actually go that far in Seattle, which has a weird anti-prestige bias. Maybe I just got unlucky with strange interviewers, though.

No, the anti-prestige bias is totally on-point. I'll be working in Portland and the market here is really similar to Seattle in terms of preferring local universities to more prestigious ones. Some firms won't even screen you if you are not local or did not go to one of the three schools here.

Nearly all the attorneys I will work with went to either Lewis & Clark, Oregon or Willamette. Many of the other bigger firms here are also for the most part filled with grads from one of those three schools. You see many established attorneys from out of state/region that have resettled out here, but not many recent grads. The only reason many here go to UW for the LLM is because no law school in Oregon offers a program. Our legal market is very protective of our homegrown mediocre law programs.

I agree with all the previous commenters that an NYU degree would likely not hurt. And it does indeed have the potential to open many doors. I just don't believe I am that ambitious. I'm born and raised Pacific NW and there's a good chance I'll never leave. I think what I'll do is apply to a bunch of programs, see where offers me the best deal, see how much the firm will kick in, and then go from there. I'll definitely apply to NYU, I'm just not convinced it's worth the money if I'm just going to stay in the Pacific NW.

[nealric]

No idea how this would apply to an LLM, but when I was applying to Seattle, firms had huge chips on their shoulder about how prestigious UW was.

Point taken, but in this case what clients think is far more important than what firms think. I doubt the tax departments of Amazon or Microsoft have a strong preference for outside counsel with UW degrees. But I understand the game may be different if you are planning on representing smaller local businesses.

[NickAwesome]

I ended up enrolling in the Georgetown Executive LLM Online Program and will be working 3/4 to full time in Portland. We'll see how it goes. Thanks everyone here for your input.