Should I Drop Out? Forum

[Anonymous User]

I am a rising 3L at a t-30 school who is seriously considering dropping out.
I am a K-JD with median grades on the board of a secondary journal. I am working at a mid-size firm for the summer and genuinely enjoy the work. However, I'm paralyzed with fear over not being able to get a decent-salaried job. I have an offer to clerk with a judge in NJ but I'm petrified of what lies beyond that. Obviously I struck out at OCI and have been applying to jobs ever since, but nothing has turned up (besides for my mid-size summer which is not expected to turn into a full-time offer).
It's not law that's making me unhappy, it's the prospect of not having a livable-wage job. I would be graduating with about 40k worth of debt (right now it's 20k). I don't have a marketable undergrad degree so I would most likely have to go back to school (thinking something along the lines of nursing or PA since I have some pre-reqs and they offer stable employment).

I don't necessarily need or want big-law, but I would like to, at some point in my career, make $150,000-250,000. I'm just not sure if this is possible since nothing notable has turned up so far.
Let me know what you think/would do.

[Anonymous User]

If this makes you feel better, I'm a rising 3L in T-14, with slightly below median grades, no mid-sized law firm summer job after mass mailing 1000+ plus tons of networking, no NJ or any other state clerkship offer even though I applied a lot during the summer, and a long term relationship with SO coming to an end. I don't even have the option of dropping out because there's nothing else I can do besides minimum wage job, and seriously I can't imagine myself doing anything other than legal jobs. Right now I'm carrying $30k debt. The prospect of graduating without a job lining up freaks me out all the time. Also, just like you, I actually love the field of law, I'm just wondering if I'll ever find a legal job.

[Bla Bla Bla Blah]

I am a rising 3L at a t-30 school who is seriously considering dropping out.
I am a K-JD with median grades on the board of a secondary journal. I am working at a mid-size firm for the summer and genuinely enjoy the work. However, I'm paralyzed with fear over not being able to get a decent-salaried job. I have an offer to clerk with a judge in NJ but I'm petrified of what lies beyond that. Obviously I struck out at OCI and have been applying to jobs ever since, but nothing has turned up (besides for my mid-size summer which is not expected to turn into a full-time offer).
It's not law that's making me unhappy, it's the prospect of not having a livable-wage job. I would be graduating with about 40k worth of debt (right now it's 20k). I don't have a marketable undergrad degree so I would most likely have to go back to school (thinking something along the lines of nursing or PA since I have some pre-reqs and they offer stable employment).

I don't necessarily need or want big-law, but I would like to, at some point in my career, make $150,000-250,000. I'm just not sure if this is possible since nothing notable has turned up so far.
Let me know what you think/would do.

It doesn't sound like you are all that bad off. Clerking will keep your foot in the legal door, and looks good for you. At the end of the day, what else would you really do that has the potential of paying out? Even with your loans, a six figure salary isn't bad (this from a guy who has tons of debt from law school, and otherwise--divorce is a bitch!).

I remember all the "grass is greener" thoughts about other career paths when I was in law school. But is it really greener, or is the worry just derailing your focus? At the end of the day, it doesn't help much to worry about the end-game. I was bottom half at a T10, and on a junk journal. Had not time to be involved in anything because my life was kind of falling apart throughout my law school experience. I've found that since graduating without work (and with turmoil in my life that derailed everything for a while) things have worked out just fine. My goal was to become a public defender, so making a switch into IP litigation is not where I thought I'd end up. But I kept on pursuing a way to get back into the field and it all worked out. I'm making way more money than I would have with a History BA, and the uptick in the legal economy has meant that I have plenty of options in the San Diego legal market.

My advice: It seems like you like the work, and the study, so stop worrying about what step will get you to where. At this point, you have a clerkship. That will lead to something good. I didn't have that, still wonder if I like law at all or if I just put up with it to take care of my kids, and eventually I landed.

[beckgirl123]

Confused by this whole post. You have minimal debt, T30 school, AND an offer of a clerkship. Am I missing something? You are better off than the majority of grads already. Doesn't sound like you hate the law or law school- so why would you drop out? You're in a good position. Take the clerkship. That's going to make you more marketable for future jobs. Don't stress so much.

[lawhopeful100]

No you shouldn’t drop out. I went to a T-30ish school as well and within a year after graduation most people I knew found decent jobs. If you’re debt was really high then maybe, but 40k is definitely manageable. I completely remember stressing over finding something, but I do think there is some truth that a lot of smaller and mid levels places don’t hire until after graduation or people take the bar. Sucks to be in the position to graduate with nothing, but it will likely still work out in the end.

[AdieuCali]

If you drop out, it will be a 2-yr red flag on your resume that you’ll have trouble explaining to future employers.

[nixy]

You actually like law, you have minimal debt, and you're getting legal experience (current gig + clerkship). The NJ clerkships are supposed to be pretty good at placing people into local law, it's just not like OCI where you'll know what you're getting before your graduate (spoiler alert: OCI is the exception to pretty much how most jobs work). Why would you drop out because you're not sure yet what you'll get and go into more debt for some kind of completely different job that you have no idea whether you like? You're in a perfectly decent position for getting a job; you just can't make that happen sooner, and your circumstances, you just won't know what that job is going to be for a while.

[Anonymous User]

You actually like law, you have minimal debt, and you're getting legal experience (current gig + clerkship). The NJ clerkships are supposed to be pretty good at placing people into local law, it's just not like OCI where you'll know what you're getting before your graduate (spoiler alert: OCI is the exception to pretty much how most jobs work). Why would you drop out because you're not sure yet what you'll get and go into more debt for some kind of completely different job that you have no idea whether you like? You're in a perfectly decent position for getting a job; you just can't make that happen sooner, and your circumstances, you just won't know what that job is going to be for a while.

OP here. Thanks for the reply. I guess I'm nervous that even with the NJ civil clerkship, I'll be stuck doing something like insurance defense or PI, which are of absolutely no interest to me and seem like dead ends. My judge has pretty good placement in large employment law firms, which I would be thrilled with, but he also has some clerks that end up doing insurance defense etc. Any advice on how to avoid those kinds of jobs and what I should be doing 3L year and during my clerkship year to bolster my resume?

[AVBucks4239]

OP here. Thanks for the reply. I guess I'm nervous that even with the NJ civil clerkship, I'll be stuck doing something like insurance defense or PI, which are of absolutely no interest to me and seem like dead ends. My judge has pretty good placement in large employment law firms, which I would be thrilled with, but he also has some clerks that end up doing insurance defense etc. Any advice on how to avoid those kinds of jobs and what I should be doing 3L year and during my clerkship year to bolster my resume?

That clerkship means you will be close with a judge. That judge in New Jersey was appointed. That means that judge knows people. Important people. Use him/her to your benefit. Work your ass off. Work your ass off especially hard on cases where you see a potential career.

This isn't hard. There aren't any tricks or shortcuts. Work hard, get to know people, and you'll be way more than fine.

[Anonymous User]

For what it's worth, I work for a firm where the partners who handle insurance defense do loads of interesting employment work. Think defending harassment charges, wrongful termination, etc. Anything where the corporation's insurance policy is on the hook for a lot of money.

[SFSpartan]

You should not drop out. You have a relatively low debt load and enjoy the work. Now comes the part where you hustle/network your face off so that you can get a job (if you accept the clerkship, do this after you begin the clerkship). As a data point, pretty much everyone I know from my T1 LS that hustled ended up with some job - the kids that waited for stuff to fall into their laps were the ones that ended up jobless (and even then, a bunch of them ended up with jobs)

[tier4_partner]

Opp. Not all Insurance Defense is equal. Doing auto or something low end is pretty awful (I agree). But professional lines, complex coverage, a niche area etc can be pretty good and lead to a pretty good salary down the line. Employment is also not terribly difficukt to land. My firm has all of these practices and regularly hires civil clerks. You have minimal debt. At the very least finish up and roll the dice. You’ve gone this far already.

[LockBox]

You actually like law, you have minimal debt, and you're getting legal experience (current gig + clerkship). The NJ clerkships are supposed to be pretty good at placing people into local law, it's just not like OCI where you'll know what you're getting before your graduate (spoiler alert: OCI is the exception to pretty much how most jobs work). Why would you drop out because you're not sure yet what you'll get and go into more debt for some kind of completely different job that you have no idea whether you like? You're in a perfectly decent position for getting a job; you just can't make that happen sooner, and your circumstances, you just won't know what that job is going to be for a while.

OP here. Thanks for the reply. I guess I'm nervous that even with the NJ civil clerkship, I'll be stuck doing something like insurance defense or PI, which are of absolutely no interest to me and seem like dead ends. My judge has pretty good placement in large employment law firms, which I would be thrilled with, but he also has some clerks that end up doing insurance defense etc. Any advice on how to avoid those kinds of jobs and what I should be doing 3L year and during my clerkship year to bolster my resume?

Since my initial post was apparently removed, can you expand on why you think these positions are dead ends? It baffles me that there people like you posting when you have it so much better than (likely) a majority of the people that visit these boards.

[Anonymous User]

You actually like law, you have minimal debt, and you're getting legal experience (current gig + clerkship). The NJ clerkships are supposed to be pretty good at placing people into local law, it's just not like OCI where you'll know what you're getting before your graduate (spoiler alert: OCI is the exception to pretty much how most jobs work). Why would you drop out because you're not sure yet what you'll get and go into more debt for some kind of completely different job that you have no idea whether you like? You're in a perfectly decent position for getting a job; you just can't make that happen sooner, and your circumstances, you just won't know what that job is going to be for a while.

OP here. Thanks for the reply. I guess I'm nervous that even with the NJ civil clerkship, I'll be stuck doing something like insurance defense or PI, which are of absolutely no interest to me and seem like dead ends. My judge has pretty good placement in large employment law firms, which I would be thrilled with, but he also has some clerks that end up doing insurance defense etc. Any advice on how to avoid those kinds of jobs and what I should be doing 3L year and during my clerkship year to bolster my resume?

Since my initial post was apparently removed, can you expand on why you think these positions are dead ends? It baffles me that there people like you posting when you have it so much better than (likely) a majority of the people that visit these boards.

OP here- Not sure how your first post got deleted. I saw the one where you said that I thought I was a special snowflake. I should have been more specific- they would be dead ends for me. I don't think I would enjoy practicing in those areas and they are not particularly transferable from what I've heard. They also happen to be extremely popular areas in NJ so I see a lot of people practicing in those areas.