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The Definitive Thread on OH Law Firms

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:06 pm

I propose this be the place for Q&A on OH firms, discussion of OH firms, etc.

My first questions of interest:

(1) how would you rank the top 5-7ish law firms in OH?

(2) If you were a law student looking to work at a large (for OH standards) law firm, which city seems the most promising/the best option: Cleveland/Columbus/Cincinnati?

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Re: The Definitive Thread on OH Law Firms

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:58 pm

# 1 is Jones Day by far, in Cleveland (their HQ)

Then probably Baker H in Cleveland.

Then you have a bunch of firms like Taft (Cincy would be best) etc.

Overall, Columbus is growing the fastest & state capital, CLE is growing the least but has an already established market, Cincy has a bunch of firms based in Cincy. It depends on where you want to be.

If you don't go to OSU it's going to be hard to get Columbus, and you're going to need ties for CLE and Cincy (aka why are you going to stay there).

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Re: The Definitive Thread on OH Law Firms

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Feb 08, 2021 11:46 am

Can anyone provide insight on firms in Cincinnati? Reputation, culture, etc. Seems like the major players are Dinsmore, Taft, Vorys, FBT, KMK, etc. What are the differences between the firms? What are their reputations?

For instance, it seems like Dinsmore is very eat what you kill and Taft is white-shoe from the very little I can glean on TLS — are these observations true, simplistic, outdated?

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Re: The Definitive Thread on OH Law Firms

Post by UnfrozenCaveman » Thu Feb 11, 2021 11:58 am

This thread seems pretty definitive so far, but I'll add my question:

Anyone know what mid to senior level associates make at the bigger firms in OH?

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Re: The Definitive Thread on OH Law Firms

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Feb 11, 2021 12:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:06 pm
I propose this be the place for Q&A on OH firms, discussion of OH firms, etc.

My first questions of interest:

(1) how would you rank the top 5-7ish law firms in OH?

(2) If you were a law student looking to work at a large (for OH standards) law firm, which city seems the most promising/the best option: Cleveland/Columbus/Cincinnati?
I have very little to add, but as a formerCA6 clerk, I will say that Cincinnati is awesome, and I would have happily lived/practiced there after clerking if I wasn't returning to my home market.

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Re: The Definitive Thread on OH Law Firms

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Feb 13, 2021 12:53 am

UnfrozenCaveman wrote:
Thu Feb 11, 2021 11:58 am
This thread seems pretty definitive so far, but I'll add my question:

Anyone know what mid to senior level associates make at the bigger firms in OH?
I'm assuming you're talking about homegrown firms and not Jones Day in Cleveland? My impression is that seniors might be making around $200,000. Could be off on that though, it's hard to find salary data for these firms beyond the first year. Their raises are definitely more compressed though.

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Re: The Definitive Thread on OH Law Firms

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:16 pm

Does anyone have a sense of how partnership prospects and hours at the top firms in Ohio compare to a typical biglaw shop in a major market?

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Re: The Definitive Thread on OH Law Firms

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:39 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:16 pm
Does anyone have a sense of how partnership prospects and hours at the top firms in Ohio compare to a typical biglaw shop in a major market?
I think the "expected" hours might be similar, maybe slightly lower, but as is the case at any law firm you might find yourself working well above the "expected" hours. I think 1800-1900ish in Cincinnati is "expected" though Frost Brown Todd might have lower expectations for first years?

My limited understanding is that partnership odds are likely variable but comparatively much better at "local" Ohio firms; but probably not much better at the V100 firms (Jones Day, Baker Hostetler, Squire Patton Boggs, etc.)

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Re: The Definitive Thread on OH Law Firms

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Feb 16, 2021 1:55 pm

Frost seems to encourage experiential learning for first-year associates, so the hours requirement there is a little less for first years. My impression is that Vorys had a high billable requirement, relative to other Cincinnati shops. Not sure if that's still true.

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Re: The Definitive Thread on OH Law Firms

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 11:46 am
Can anyone provide insight on firms in Cincinnati? Reputation, culture, etc. Seems like the major players are Dinsmore, Taft, Vorys, FBT, KMK, etc. What are the differences between the firms? What are their reputations?

For instance, it seems like Dinsmore is very eat what you kill and Taft is white-shoe from the very little I can glean on TLS — are these observations true, simplistic, outdated?
I’m curious also. I’ve heard Vorys and KMK have high hour expectations. Taft seems to be focusing on IN.

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Re: The Definitive Thread on OH Law Firms

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:34 pm

FBT is 1800 with 300 additional hours of non-billable (pro bono; CLE; marketing; interviewing)

Taft is 1850 (100 of which can be pro bono)

Squire PB is 2000 or 2050

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Re: The Definitive Thread on OH Law Firms

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:34 pm
FBT is 1800 with 300 additional hours of non-billable (pro bono; CLE; marketing; interviewing)

Taft is 1850 (100 of which can be pro bono)

Squire PB is 2000 or 2050
Pretty sure KMK and (maybe) Vorys are 1900.

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Re: The Definitive Thread on OH Law Firms

Post by UnfrozenCaveman » Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:30 pm

When you say, "FBT is 1800 with 300 additional hours of non-billable (pro bono; CLE; marketing; interviewing)" you mean that you need 1800 billable and 2100 including the pro bono, CLE, marketing, etc., correct?

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Re: The Definitive Thread on OH Law Firms

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:52 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:25 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 11:46 am
Can anyone provide insight on firms in Cincinnati? Reputation, culture, etc. Seems like the major players are Dinsmore, Taft, Vorys, FBT, KMK, etc. What are the differences between the firms? What are their reputations?

For instance, it seems like Dinsmore is very eat what you kill and Taft is white-shoe from the very little I can glean on TLS — are these observations true, simplistic, outdated?
I’m curious also. I’ve heard Vorys and KMK have high hour expectations. Taft seems to be focusing on IN.
IN?

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Re: The Definitive Thread on OH Law Firms

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:22 pm

UnfrozenCaveman wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:30 pm
When you say, "FBT is 1800 with 300 additional hours of non-billable (pro bono; CLE; marketing; interviewing)" you mean that you need 1800 billable and 2100 including the pro bono, CLE, marketing, etc., correct?
Correct, from what I’ve been told.

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Re: The Definitive Thread on OH Law Firms

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:52 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:25 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 11:46 am
Can anyone provide insight on firms in Cincinnati? Reputation, culture, etc. Seems like the major players are Dinsmore, Taft, Vorys, FBT, KMK, etc. What are the differences between the firms? What are their reputations?

For instance, it seems like Dinsmore is very eat what you kill and Taft is white-shoe from the very little I can glean on TLS — are these observations true, simplistic, outdated?
I’m curious also. I’ve heard Vorys and KMK have high hour expectations. Taft seems to be focusing on IN.
IN?
Indiana, particularly Indianapolis.

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Re: The Definitive Thread on OH Law Firms

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:22 pm
UnfrozenCaveman wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:30 pm
When you say, "FBT is 1800 with 300 additional hours of non-billable (pro bono; CLE; marketing; interviewing)" you mean that you need 1800 billable and 2100 including the pro bono, CLE, marketing, etc., correct?
Correct, from what I’ve been told.
FBT is 1850, not 1800. You are required to bill another 300 non-billable.

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Re: The Definitive Thread on OH Law Firms

Post by UnfrozenCaveman » Wed Feb 17, 2021 11:02 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:38 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:22 pm
UnfrozenCaveman wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:30 pm
When you say, "FBT is 1800 with 300 additional hours of non-billable (pro bono; CLE; marketing; interviewing)" you mean that you need 1800 billable and 2100 including the pro bono, CLE, marketing, etc., correct?
Correct, from what I’ve been told.
FBT is 1850, not 1800. You are required to bill another 300 non-billable.
That's kinda miserable.

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Re: The Definitive Thread on OH Law Firms

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:55 am

UnfrozenCaveman wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 11:02 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:38 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:22 pm
UnfrozenCaveman wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:30 pm
When you say, "FBT is 1800 with 300 additional hours of non-billable (pro bono; CLE; marketing; interviewing)" you mean that you need 1800 billable and 2100 including the pro bono, CLE, marketing, etc., correct?
Correct, from what I’ve been told.
FBT is 1850, not 1800. You are required to bill another 300 non-billable.
That's kinda miserable.
Agreed, surprising if true. They pay less than Vorys, which someone above suggested had a billable target of 1900. And I think they pay summers less than other firms?

Anonymous User
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Re: The Definitive Thread on OH Law Firms

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:31 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:55 am
UnfrozenCaveman wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 11:02 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:38 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:22 pm
UnfrozenCaveman wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:30 pm
When you say, "FBT is 1800 with 300 additional hours of non-billable (pro bono; CLE; marketing; interviewing)" you mean that you need 1800 billable and 2100 including the pro bono, CLE, marketing, etc., correct?
Correct, from what I’ve been told.
FBT is 1850, not 1800. You are required to bill another 300 non-billable.
That's kinda miserable.
Agreed, surprising if true. They pay less than Vorys, which someone above suggested had a billable target of 1900. And I think they pay summers less than other firms?
They pay a bit below market in Cinci, which increased over the past year. Dinsmore might as well.

I'm curious about Dinsmore's reputation. Besides being an eat what you kill place, I've heard they're large enough to have some capable attorneys but also hide a few incompetent ones. Not sure if that's unique to them though.

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Re: The Definitive Thread on OH Law Firms

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:42 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:55 am
UnfrozenCaveman wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 11:02 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:38 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:22 pm
UnfrozenCaveman wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:30 pm
When you say, "FBT is 1800 with 300 additional hours of non-billable (pro bono; CLE; marketing; interviewing)" you mean that you need 1800 billable and 2100 including the pro bono, CLE, marketing, etc., correct?
Correct, from what I’ve been told.
FBT is 1850, not 1800. You are required to bill another 300 non-billable.
That's kinda miserable.
Agreed, surprising if true. They pay less than Vorys, which someone above suggested had a billable target of 1900. And I think they pay summers less than other firms?
It is true because I work there. FBT now pays first years $125. That is more than Dinsmore but lower than some others.

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Re: The Definitive Thread on OH Law Firms

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:42 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:55 am
UnfrozenCaveman wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 11:02 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:38 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:22 pm
UnfrozenCaveman wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:30 pm
When you say, "FBT is 1800 with 300 additional hours of non-billable (pro bono; CLE; marketing; interviewing)" you mean that you need 1800 billable and 2100 including the pro bono, CLE, marketing, etc., correct?
Correct, from what I’ve been told.
FBT is 1850, not 1800. You are required to bill another 300 non-billable.
That's kinda miserable.
Agreed, surprising if true. They pay less than Vorys, which someone above suggested had a billable target of 1900. And I think they pay summers less than other firms?
It is true because I work there. FBT now pays first years $125. That is more than Dinsmore but lower than some others.
KMK and pretty sure Taft are $125. I think Vorys and Porter Wright (small office) are the only ones I recall that pay more.

Anonymous User
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Re: The Definitive Thread on OH Law Firms

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:29 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:13 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:42 pm
It is true because I work there. FBT now pays first years $125. That is more than Dinsmore but lower than some others.
KMK and pretty sure Taft are $125. I think Vorys and Porter Wright (small office) are the only ones I recall that pay more.
Confirming Taft is $125. Also I have heard that Katz Teller (boutique) pays above market.

Anonymous User
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Re: The Definitive Thread on OH Law Firms

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:16 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:29 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:13 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:42 pm
It is true because I work there. FBT now pays first years $125. That is more than Dinsmore but lower than some others.
KMK and pretty sure Taft are $125. I think Vorys and Porter Wright (small office) are the only ones I recall that pay more.
Confirming Taft is $125. Also I have heard that Katz Teller (boutique) pays above market.
I can confirm that. They're allegedly the highest paid in the city. I have no idea about their hiring practices at all, however.

Anonymous User
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Re: The Definitive Thread on OH Law Firms

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:58 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:16 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:29 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:13 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:42 pm
It is true because I work there. FBT now pays first years $125. That is more than Dinsmore but lower than some others.
KMK and pretty sure Taft are $125. I think Vorys and Porter Wright (small office) are the only ones I recall that pay more.
Confirming Taft is $125. Also I have heard that Katz Teller (boutique) pays above market.
I can confirm that. They're allegedly the highest paid in the city. I have no idea about their hiring practices at all, however.
Pretty sure they don’t regularly recruit students.

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