Hours/Lifestyle in L.A. Biglaw Forum

[Anonymous User]

Hey guys, just had a few quick questions.

-What's lifestyle like at L.A. Biglaw compared to NYC?

-What are billable hours required to stay on partnership track?

-How many hours per week do they generally work?

-Is it true they generally get to the office earlier but leave earlier?

-Is there a dress code difference?

Also, just as a side question is Biglaw generally more or less stressful than working as a management consultant at Mckinsey L.A.?

Thanks

[Anonymous User]

Interested in this as well. Would be particularly helpful if someone with experience / knowledge can speak to VC/EC practices in LA, such as Gunderson, Cooley and Wilson Sonsini. Hours, lifestyle, quality of work, clients, etc.

[smokeylarue]

From what I hear from friends in NYC, on average lifestyle is a little chiller than NYC. Of course as with all things, your mileage may vary depending on firm and specific partners you get stuck working for. Generally people get in around 830 AM/9 AM, office is pretty empty by 6/7 PM so there's no real evening food/Grubhub culture. Billable hours is same as NYC. No difference in dress code either, business casual everywhere, lot of offices let you go more casual on Fridays.

[Anonymous User]

Midlevel litigator at a firm in DTLA. I can only speak for my firm, but I think this is consistent with the experiences of others I know:

--I never worked in NYC, but lifestyle is relatively humane. People roll in around 9-9:30 (with more people coming in after 9:30 than before 9) and most people leave between 5-7 unless they have a specific reason that they need to be in the office (trial, major brief-writing crunch, etc.). Depending on who you work with, working from home is generally no big deal if you don't abuse it (i.e., you actually need to work and you shouldn't do it every day). Most people put in at least a couple extra hours from home each night.

--At my firm, billing 2000ish hours a year and getting good reviews will keep you employed as an associate for several years (at least until you are a senior associate). You probably want somewhat more if you are making a serious run at partner. Litigation can be sort of feast or famine, so there will be years where the average associate is billing 1700-1800 and years where the average associate is billing significantly more than 2000.

--It's business casual M-Th and casual (i.e., jeans allowed; collared shirt encouraged but not required; no flip flops or shorts or yoga pants or the like) on Fridays. No one will care if you wear jeans the day before Thanksgiving or July 3 or whatnot. You can wear whatever you want (gym clothes, etc.) if you are there on a weekend.

[Anonymous User]

Midlevel litigator at a firm in DTLA. I can only speak for my firm, but I think this is consistent with the experiences of others I know:

--I never worked in NYC, but lifestyle is relatively humane. People roll in around 9-9:30 (with more people coming in after 9:30 than before 9) and most people leave between 5-7 unless they have a specific reason that they need to be in the office (trial, major brief-writing crunch, etc.). Depending on who you work with, working from home is generally no big deal if you don't abuse it (i.e., you actually need to work and you shouldn't do it every day). Most people put in at least a couple extra hours from home each night.

--At my firm, billing 2000ish hours a year and getting good reviews will keep you employed as an associate for several years (at least until you are a senior associate). You probably want somewhat more if you are making a serious run at partner. Litigation can be sort of feast or famine, so there will be years where the average associate is billing 1700-1800 and years where the average associate is billing significantly more than 2000.

--It's business casual M-Th and casual (i.e., jeans allowed; collared shirt encouraged but not required; no flip flops or shorts or yoga pants or the like) on Fridays. No one will care if you wear jeans the day before Thanksgiving or July 3 or whatnot. You can wear whatever you want (gym clothes, etc.) if you are there on a weekend.

I’m also a midlevel litigator at a firm in DTLA and this sums up my experience as well.

[throwaway11234125410]

Midlevel litigator at a firm in DTLA. I can only speak for my firm, but I think this is consistent with the experiences of others I know:

--I never worked in NYC, but lifestyle is relatively humane. People roll in around 9-9:30 (with more people coming in after 9:30 than before 9) and most people leave between 5-7 unless they have a specific reason that they need to be in the office (trial, major brief-writing crunch, etc.). Depending on who you work with, working from home is generally no big deal if you don't abuse it (i.e., you actually need to work and you shouldn't do it every day). Most people put in at least a couple extra hours from home each night.

--At my firm, billing 2000ish hours a year and getting good reviews will keep you employed as an associate for several years (at least until you are a senior associate). You probably want somewhat more if you are making a serious run at partner. Litigation can be sort of feast or famine, so there will be years where the average associate is billing 1700-1800 and years where the average associate is billing significantly more than 2000.

--It's business casual M-Th and casual (i.e., jeans allowed; collared shirt encouraged but not required; no flip flops or shorts or yoga pants or the like) on Fridays. No one will care if you wear jeans the day before Thanksgiving or July 3 or whatnot. You can wear whatever you want (gym clothes, etc.) if you are there on a weekend.

What's the pay generally like for starting associates at a mid level firm like this?

[Anonymous User]

From what I hear from friends in NYC, on average lifestyle is a little chiller than NYC. Of course as with all things, your mileage may vary depending on firm and specific partners you get stuck working for. Generally people get in around 830 AM/9 AM, office is pretty empty by 6/7 PM so there's no real evening food/Grubhub culture. Billable hours is same as NYC. No difference in dress code either, business casual everywhere, lot of offices let you go more casual on Fridays.

Is the pay in L.A. close to what people in NYC are paid? (~160k starting)

[1styearlateral]

From what I hear from friends in NYC, on average lifestyle is a little chiller than NYC. Of course as with all things, your mileage may vary depending on firm and specific partners you get stuck working for. Generally people get in around 830 AM/9 AM, office is pretty empty by 6/7 PM so there's no real evening food/Grubhub culture. Billable hours is same as NYC. No difference in dress code either, business casual everywhere, lot of offices let you go more casual on Fridays.

Is the pay in L.A. close to what people in NYC are paid? (~160k starting)

Are you a time traveler from 2008?

[worklifewhat]

Midlevel litigator at a firm in DTLA. I can only speak for my firm, but I think this is consistent with the experiences of others I know:

--I never worked in NYC, but lifestyle is relatively humane. People roll in around 9-9:30 (with more people coming in after 9:30 than before 9) and most people leave between 5-7 unless they have a specific reason that they need to be in the office (trial, major brief-writing crunch, etc.). Depending on who you work with, working from home is generally no big deal if you don't abuse it (i.e., you actually need to work and you shouldn't do it every day). Most people put in at least a couple extra hours from home each night.

--At my firm, billing 2000ish hours a year and getting good reviews will keep you employed as an associate for several years (at least until you are a senior associate). You probably want somewhat more if you are making a serious run at partner. Litigation can be sort of feast or famine, so there will be years where the average associate is billing 1700-1800 and years where the average associate is billing significantly more than 2000.

--It's business casual M-Th and casual (i.e., jeans allowed; collared shirt encouraged but not required; no flip flops or shorts or yoga pants or the like) on Fridays. No one will care if you wear jeans the day before Thanksgiving or July 3 or whatnot. You can wear whatever you want (gym clothes, etc.) if you are there on a weekend.

What's the pay generally like for starting associates at a mid level firm like this?

Pay is market (current market not pre-Milbank market).

[Int'lshoe]

Midlevel litigator at a firm in DTLA. I can only speak for my firm, but I think this is consistent with the experiences of others I know:

--I never worked in NYC, but lifestyle is relatively humane. People roll in around 9-9:30 (with more people coming in after 9:30 than before 9) and most people leave between 5-7 unless they have a specific reason that they need to be in the office (trial, major brief-writing crunch, etc.). Depending on who you work with, working from home is generally no big deal if you don't abuse it (i.e., you actually need to work and you shouldn't do it every day). Most people put in at least a couple extra hours from home each night.

--At my firm, billing 2000ish hours a year and getting good reviews will keep you employed as an associate for several years (at least until you are a senior associate). You probably want somewhat more if you are making a serious run at partner. Litigation can be sort of feast or famine, so there will be years where the average associate is billing 1700-1800 and years where the average associate is billing significantly more than 2000.

--It's business casual M-Th and casual (i.e., jeans allowed; collared shirt encouraged but not required; no flip flops or shorts or yoga pants or the like) on Fridays. No one will care if you wear jeans the day before Thanksgiving or July 3 or whatnot. You can wear whatever you want (gym clothes, etc.) if you are there on a weekend.

What's the pay generally like for starting associates at a mid level firm like this?

Pay is market (current market not pre-Milbank market).

What types of assignments do you work on? Do associates do substantive work such as taking depositions, making appearances, appearing on pleadings or is it mostly behind the scenes until you make senior associate?

Thanks for sharing.

[worklifewhat]

Midlevel litigator at a firm in DTLA. I can only speak for my firm, but I think this is consistent with the experiences of others I know:

--I never worked in NYC, but lifestyle is relatively humane. People roll in around 9-9:30 (with more people coming in after 9:30 than before 9) and most people leave between 5-7 unless they have a specific reason that they need to be in the office (trial, major brief-writing crunch, etc.). Depending on who you work with, working from home is generally no big deal if you don't abuse it (i.e., you actually need to work and you shouldn't do it every day). Most people put in at least a couple extra hours from home each night.

--At my firm, billing 2000ish hours a year and getting good reviews will keep you employed as an associate for several years (at least until you are a senior associate). You probably want somewhat more if you are making a serious run at partner. Litigation can be sort of feast or famine, so there will be years where the average associate is billing 1700-1800 and years where the average associate is billing significantly more than 2000.

--It's business casual M-Th and casual (i.e., jeans allowed; collared shirt encouraged but not required; no flip flops or shorts or yoga pants or the like) on Fridays. No one will care if you wear jeans the day before Thanksgiving or July 3 or whatnot. You can wear whatever you want (gym clothes, etc.) if you are there on a weekend.

What's the pay generally like for starting associates at a mid level firm like this?

Pay is market (current market not pre-Milbank market).

What types of assignments do you work on? Do associates do substantive work such as taking depositions, making appearances, appearing on pleadings or is it mostly behind the scenes until you make senior associate?

Thanks for sharing.

As a mid level, it’s not common to appear on pleadings or make appearances but not absolutely outside the realm of possibility depending on the case. You will likely start second chairing depositions as a second year but not fake them until maybe 4th-5th year. Conducting witness interviews, drafting motions, drafting replies, and overseeing discovery are common tasks for a mid level at my firm. But every firm and every matter is different so experiences can vary widely within firms and across firms.

[Anonymous User]

LA Junior Associate. I started at a lit boutique, where I was doing depositions, writing motions, talking directly to clients, and prepping for trials. Pretty much full autonomy. I'm now at a mid/biglaw firm satellite office in LA, where I do the same types of things, but with a bit more oversight. My sense is that biglaw junior associates here do a good amount of the gruntwork, but opportunities to take on more substantive assignments/roles are there if you (a) demonstrate ability, (b) want to do more, and (c) end up working on the right case/with the right people.

No idea what corporate is like.

[Person1111]

Midlevel litigator at a firm in DTLA. I can only speak for my firm, but I think this is consistent with the experiences of others I know:

--I never worked in NYC, but lifestyle is relatively humane. People roll in around 9-9:30 (with more people coming in after 9:30 than before 9) and most people leave between 5-7 unless they have a specific reason that they need to be in the office (trial, major brief-writing crunch, etc.). Depending on who you work with, working from home is generally no big deal if you don't abuse it (i.e., you actually need to work and you shouldn't do it every day). Most people put in at least a couple extra hours from home each night.

--At my firm, billing 2000ish hours a year and getting good reviews will keep you employed as an associate for several years (at least until you are a senior associate). You probably want somewhat more if you are making a serious run at partner. Litigation can be sort of feast or famine, so there will be years where the average associate is billing 1700-1800 and years where the average associate is billing significantly more than 2000.

--It's business casual M-Th and casual (i.e., jeans allowed; collared shirt encouraged but not required; no flip flops or shorts or yoga pants or the like) on Fridays. No one will care if you wear jeans the day before Thanksgiving or July 3 or whatnot. You can wear whatever you want (gym clothes, etc.) if you are there on a weekend.

What's the pay generally like for starting associates at a mid level firm like this?

Pay is market (current market not pre-Milbank market).

What types of assignments do you work on? Do associates do substantive work such as taking depositions, making appearances, appearing on pleadings or is it mostly behind the scenes until you make senior associate?

Thanks for sharing.

As a mid level, it’s not common to appear on pleadings or make appearances but not absolutely outside the realm of possibility depending on the case. You will likely start second chairing depositions as a second year but not fake them until maybe 4th-5th year. Conducting witness interviews, drafting motions, drafting replies, and overseeing discovery are common tasks for a mid level at my firm. But every firm and every matter is different so experiences can vary widely within firms and across firms.

This varies highly from firm to firm (and within firms depending on the partners you work for). I’m a fifth year and have taken 10 depositions and have appeared solo in court maybe half a dozen times. Boutiques and small-medium sized offices at Vault firms seem to be best for getting these kind of experiences quickly.

[Anonymous User]

Midlevel litigator at a firm in DTLA. I can only speak for my firm, but I think this is consistent with the experiences of others I know:

--I never worked in NYC, but lifestyle is relatively humane. People roll in around 9-9:30 (with more people coming in after 9:30 than before 9) and most people leave between 5-7 unless they have a specific reason that they need to be in the office (trial, major brief-writing crunch, etc.). Depending on who you work with, working from home is generally no big deal if you don't abuse it (i.e., you actually need to work and you shouldn't do it every day). Most people put in at least a couple extra hours from home each night.

--At my firm, billing 2000ish hours a year and getting good reviews will keep you employed as an associate for several years (at least until you are a senior associate). You probably want somewhat more if you are making a serious run at partner. Litigation can be sort of feast or famine, so there will be years where the average associate is billing 1700-1800 and years where the average associate is billing significantly more than 2000.

--It's business casual M-Th and casual (i.e., jeans allowed; collared shirt encouraged but not required; no flip flops or shorts or yoga pants or the like) on Fridays. No one will care if you wear jeans the day before Thanksgiving or July 3 or whatnot. You can wear whatever you want (gym clothes, etc.) if you are there on a weekend.

What's the pay generally like for starting associates at a mid level firm like this?

It’s a Vault firm and pays 180k+ starting.

[Anonymous User]

These sorts of generalizations are dangerous and will lead you down the wrong path.

[almondjoy]

These sorts of generalizations are dangerous and will lead you down the wrong path.

100%

[Anonymous User]

These sorts of generalizations are dangerous and will lead you down the wrong path.

Agree.

I'm in Orange County, which is supposed to be even more humane than LA (leave office by 6, have dinner with family, work a bit from home after putting the kids to sleep). That hasn't been my experience.

It's certainly not terrible, but when we're busy I'm in the office from 9-9 or more, and when we're slow I'm still in the office from 9-7 (which is pretty rare). Take it with a bit of a grain of salt because I'm a junior associate, so I'll probably get more freedom to work from home at night as I become more senior.

We are on the new Milbank/STB/Cravath $190k scale, and most people in my group seem to bill about 2200+ in a typical year.