Summer Firm misrepresenting offer rates on NALP Forum

[Anonymous User]

Hi all,

I summered at a big law firm that no offered me. The year before a summer associate also did not receive an offer, but I was told over the summer it was because he withdrew (and wasn't considered for an offer). Now I know this was likely BS, because I was no offered, and it seems like they have a pattern of hiring two summers but only taking one associate. I just checked their NALP form and it says only one summer associate was considered for an offer and one received it, implying a 100% offer rate. This is absolutely untrue, as I was absolutely considered for an offer, and the form doesn't even mention there were two summer associates in the office. What they did to me was extremely messed up. I received excellent reviews all summer and praise that definitely made me think I was joining the firm. I was kept in the dark that they only intended to hire one of us. Apparently who to pick "was a really hard decision," and it ended up not being me. Although I landed on my feet and you could say "I traded up," I think a less gregarious individual would have had a lot of problems and I was super depressed and felt worthless for a chunk of time. Although I realize it is probably too late now for this year's summers, I don't want the next crop of incoming summers to be unaware of the firm's real practices. Should I contact NALP? Or should I just leave it be? For what it's worth they didn't even give me a cold offer, because they said it was against NALP guidelines, so its really incredible to me that they misrepresented things on their NALP form. They did, however, give me some off the record advice that they had a "neutral recommendation policy" and that they wold never "tell an employer whether I received an offer or not." I took this to mean I could dance around the question and act like I wanted to change markets, which is ultimately what I did. Thus, I wonder if bringing this to NALP's attention would be shooting myself in the foot if my current firm ever checked the old firm's NALP page on a whim.

Would appreciate everyone's thoughts.

[sparkytrainer]

Out the firm to above the law. Shame them. You said you traded up, so you might as well

[Anonymous User]

Ugh that is so messed up. Extremely sorry to hear that you had to go through that. I don't know about formal ways of reporting this type of thing to NALP, but if you feel comfortable doing it, I would write to Above the Law to have them run a story on this. These types of firms need to be outed so that future applications don't fall into the same situation.

[Anonymous User]

I think I know what firm this may be. If I am right, this is a huge lol...

[sjp200]

out of curiosity, what firm

[Anonymous User]

OP here- I’ve decided to let things be as I still have to deal with my summer firm when I get my matters together to clear conflicts, etc. Additionally, even if I went to ATL annonymously, once the firm and the office was made public my current firm would surely be able to figure out its me. I don’t want to attract any negative attention with my current firm, and for them to think misrepresented my summer experience in the interview process. I also definitely don’t want my old firm to have reasons to bad mouth me as I haven’t had my onboarding formal background check conducted yet.

I will PM ppl though if they have a legit reason for wanting to know which firm besides gossip/curiosity. I’m not going to publicly out them here though, for the same reasons I am not going to ATL. Just go ahead and post your legitimate reason for wanting to know and I’ll shoot you a message.

[oranger]

I'm a rising 2L and would definitely want to avoid applying to this firm. I don't think we can pm anonymous posters ourselves. Could you pm me? Thanks & best of luck with the new firm!

[estefanchanning]

Is this a V15 firm? If so, the same thing happened to my friend and I would be interested in confirming...

[Anonymous User]

I'm a rising 2L and would definitely want to avoid applying to this firm. I don't think we can pm anonymous posters ourselves. Could you pm me? Thanks & best of luck with the new firm!

No one can PM anyone anymore on this site.

[Atmosphere]

I'm a rising 2L and would definitely want to avoid applying to this firm. I don't think we can pm anonymous posters ourselves. Could you pm me? Thanks & best of luck with the new firm!

No one can PM anyone anymore on this site.

When and why did this happen

[Mockingbird42]

It may be worth reaching out to your school's OCS. They would know how to send the information to NALP and they have an incentive to refrain from doing so if it hurts you. At the very least, they would know to steer students away from this firm.

[Anonymous User]

Not a V15. Small, satellite office of a V100 in a market where most summer classes are very small. I can’t PM anyone but I think the takeaway from this thread may be that this sort of thing is far more common than people realize, and 100% doesn’t always mean that since there isn’t anyone making sure these firms are truthful on NALP. A firm will hang a summer out to dry so always have a plan B.

[Anonymous User]

Happened at my summer firm too. Saw it coming a mile away (looked at stats on NALP, compared with other info I could find online, looked at bios on firms website and noticed there were too many partners and not enough associates at the firm, noticed in the interviews that only 1 of the associates was previously a summer).

Firm was a satellite of a v-100 in a mid market (e.g. Dallas, Phoenix, Minneapolis).

Needless to say, it was a rough summer. I was paranoid going in and all my fears were confirmed. Eventually no offered for no apparent reason as far as I can tell. I think they had a SA in the budget, I was there last choice, therefore they decided to give me the money without any intention of hiring me (which I'm fine with but a little honestly would have been nice).

Ended up landing on my feet. Found a job that does work I'm interested in (think Personal injury, Union representation, public interest). The pay is between 70-100k depending on how many hours I bill and performance. This is less than what I would have had at the evil law firm (125k). Most you can get as first year in my market is 150k, and the standard is 130k.

Was devastated when I got no offered (though I saw it coming from a mile away). However, I'm one of those people who HATES big law and any place where large groups of strangers work together (worked at the PD's for a bit and the climate was almost as nasty as the big firm) (e.g. rumors, politics, shit talking). However I have no debt so really the whole ordeal was a wash. I would never out the firm for the sake of collegiality.

I'm in a better position for my career goals right now, that is, hanging a shingle some day and helping people who were personally injured. If I wanted to get a big law job in my market, I probably could. However, like I said, I hate big law and have no debt, the only reason I took the job over the summer was because conventional wisdom at my school is the only way you can become an actual attorney is to do your time at one of these pseudo fascist regimes. (This is false). Don't listen to the naysayers. Place I work at now will let me do arbitration right away, depos ect. I'll make enough to do whatever a single guy in their twenties might want to do within the confines of the law. After a few years I'll make more than my big law friends.

Anyone this happened to, keep your head up, stop reading TLS, start exuding professionalism and doing good work for people and things will turn around. If you're a law review type, do a clerkship.

Peace.

[Anonymous User]

Did your firm also misrepresent their offer rates on NALP?

[Anonymous User]

This shit happens all the time, don't trust offer rates reported by the firms. OP, does the firm have the letter "P" in it.

[Anonymous User]

[quote="Anonymous User"]Happened at my summer firm too. Saw it coming a mile away (looked at stats on NALP, compared with other info I could find online, looked at bios on firms website and noticed there were too many partners and not enough associates at the firm, noticed in the interviews that only 1 of the associates was previously a summer).

Firm was a satellite of a v-100 in a mid market (e.g. Dallas, Phoenix, Minneapolis).

Needless to say, it was a rough summer. I was paranoid going in and all my fears were confirmed. Eventually no offered for no apparent reason as far as I can tell. I think they had a SA in the budget, I was there last choice, therefore they decided to give me the money without any intention of hiring me (which I'm fine with but a little honestly would have been nice).

Ended up landing on my feet. Found a job that does work I'm interested in (think Personal injury, Union representation, public interest). The pay is between 70-100k depending on how many hours I bill and performance. This is less than what I would have had at the evil law firm (125k). Most you can get as first year in my market is 150k, and the standard is 130k.

Was devastated when I got no offered (though I saw it coming from a mile away). However, I'm one of those people who HATES big law and any place where large groups of strangers work together (worked at the PD's for a bit and the climate was almost as nasty as the big firm) (e.g. rumors, politics, shit talking). However I have no debt so really the whole ordeal was a wash. I would never out the firm for the sake of collegiality.

I'm in a better position for my career goals right now, that is, hanging a shingle some day and helping people who were personally injured. If I wanted to get a big law job in my market, I probably could. However, like I said, I hate big law and have no debt, the only reason I took the job over the summer was because conventional wisdom at my school is the only way you can become an actual attorney is to do your time at one of these pseudo fascist regimes. (This is false). Don't listen to the naysayers. Place I work at now will let me do arbitration right away, depos ect. I'll make enough to do whatever a single guy in their twenties might want to do within the confines of the law. After a few years I'll make more than my big law friends.

Anyone this happened to, keep your head up, stop reading TLS, start exuding professionalism and doing good work for people and things will turn around. If you're a law review type, do a clerkship.

Peace.[/quote]

Did they tell you why? Was it a cold offer?

[Anonymous User]

This shit happens all the time, don't trust offer rates reported by the firms. OP, does the firm have the letter "P" in it.

No, the firm actually does not have a "P" in their name, but I guess if some "P" firm has done this too its a lot more widespread than you would know of from this board. People talk about 100% offer rates like its some gospel, but clearly firms misrepresent this and you can't really believe anything.

[Anonymous User]

For anyone comfortable doing so, it would be helpful for people to anonymously out firms in this thread.