NYC to 200k Forum

[Anonymous User]

S&C matched cravath, including bonus. (Info is sent out individually, so I can only confirm for one class year)

[Anonymous User]

why would it affect women and minorities more? not flame, i just have no idea how you make that connection

soft factors almost always work against these groups in the American workplace, biglaw included

why would it affect women and minorities more? not flame, i just have no idea how you make that connection

They can pay white men more--on average--under the shroud of individualized compensation. That isn't to say there are not outliers because there certainly are. And I'm also not saying it's intentional discrimination, but when you have, for the most part, a lot of old white men making salary decisions, other white men tend to benefit. Firm management would rather die than be forced to release comprehensive numbers comparing average salaries between gender, race, ethnicity, etc.

It's one thing to say there's a pay gap and that's based on some sort of institutional bias (wrong as a matter of proportional causality but likely as a part of a broader explanation), but another entirely to say that just because there's an option for bias there must be a pay gap. Kudos for taking already shoddy statistical analysis a step further.

[anonnymouse]

S&C matched cravath, including bonus. (Info is sent out individually, so I can only confirm for one class year)

Why is it so hard for you people to snap a photo of your monitor, upload to imgur, and link that here? Assuming you're one of the 100 or so in your class year at S&C, your anonymity is preserved.

[Anonymous User]

SullCrom matched.

[Anonymous User]

S&C matched cravath, including bonus. (Info is sent out individually, so I can only confirm for one class year)

Why is it so hard for you people to snap a photo of your monitor, upload to imgur, and link that here? Assuming you're one of the 100 or so in your class year at S&C, your anonymity is preserved.

Other anon here - no photo but confirmation from a text from a friend at S&C in the c/o 2017.

[Anonymous User]

why would it affect women and minorities more? not flame, i just have no idea how you make that connection

soft factors almost always work against these groups in the American workplace, biglaw included

why would it affect women and minorities more? not flame, i just have no idea how you make that connection

They can pay white men more--on average--under the shroud of individualized compensation. That isn't to say there are not outliers because there certainly are. And I'm also not saying it's intentional discrimination, but when you have, for the most part, a lot of old white men making salary decisions, other white men tend to benefit. Firm management would rather die than be forced to release comprehensive numbers comparing average salaries between gender, race, ethnicity, etc.

It's one thing to say there's a pay gap and that's based on some sort of institutional bias (wrong as a matter of proportional causality but likely as a part of a broader explanation), but another entirely to say that just because there's an option for bias there must be a pay gap. Kudos for taking already shoddy statistical analysis a step further.

There can be no statistical analysis when the shitbags running Jones Day won’t release numbers and have a bizarro policy against attorneys discussing comp. I would be absolutely shocked if there wasn’t rampant salary discrimination. They’d probably fire an associate just for bringing up that topic though.

[Anonymous User]

S&C matched cravath, including bonus. (Info is sent out individually, so I can only confirm for one class year)

Why is it so hard for you people to snap a photo of your monitor, upload to imgur, and link that here? Assuming you're one of the 100 or so in your class year at S&C, your anonymity is preserved.

I don't understand why you guys feel like you're entitled to a screenshot everytime someone shares the news that their firm matched. Literally every time someone shares, some asshats gotta comment "WHERE'S THE SCREENSHOT BUDDY? PICS OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN"

Get your head out of your ass and be thankful people are taking the time to post news of their match in the first place.

[Anonymous User]

at this point though, you're basically signing up for that by working there

[Anonymous User]

S&C matched cravath, including bonus. (Info is sent out individually, so I can only confirm for one class year)

Why is it so hard for you people to snap a photo of your monitor, upload to imgur, and link that here? Assuming you're one of the 100 or so in your class year at S&C, your anonymity is preserved.

I don't understand why you guys feel like you're entitled to a screenshot everytime someone shares the news that their firm matched. Get your head out of your ass and be thankful people are taking the time to post news of their match in the first place.

dude shut up. 90% of the news on here is fake, that's why.

[ithrowds]

S&C matched cravath, including bonus. (Info is sent out individually, so I can only confirm for one class year)

Why is it so hard for you people to snap a photo of your monitor, upload to imgur, and link that here? Assuming you're one of the 100 or so in your class year at S&C, your anonymity is preserved.

Do you get off on memos or something? I guess I understand the desire to see one, but its weird to be so aggressive about it when you'll see it on ATL in a matter of minutes

[Anonymous User]

S&C matched cravath, including bonus. (Info is sent out individually, so I can only confirm for one class year)

Why is it so hard for you people to snap a photo of your monitor, upload to imgur, and link that here? Assuming you're one of the 100 or so in your class year at S&C, your anonymity is preserved.

I don't understand why you guys feel like you're entitled to a screenshot everytime someone shares the news that their firm matched. Get your head out of your ass and be thankful people are taking the time to post news of their match in the first place.

dude shut up. 90% of the news on here is fake, that's why.

There's only been a couple instances of people actually trolling on here, and when they have, its become apparent within minutes. It's like voting fraud, you guys are making it out to be way more rampant than it is.

Just calm your tits and thank the poster for sharing

[Anonymous User]

S&C matched cravath, including bonus. (Info is sent out individually, so I can only confirm for one class year)

Why is it so hard for you people to snap a photo of your monitor, upload to imgur, and link that here? Assuming you're one of the 100 or so in your class year at S&C, your anonymity is preserved.

I don't understand why you guys feel like you're entitled to a screenshot everytime someone shares the news that their firm matched. Get your head out of your ass and be thankful people are taking the time to post news of their match in the first place.

dude shut up. 90% of the news on here is fake, that's why.

There's only been a couple instances of people actually trolling on here, and when they have, its become obvious within minutes. It's like voting fraud, you guys are making it out to be way more rampant than it is.

Just calm your tits and thank the poster for sharing

real talk tho why is it so hard to paste a screenshot? there's also definitely been more trolling than actual news on here fyi

[Anonymous User]

S&C matched cravath, including bonus. (Info is sent out individually, so I can only confirm for one class year)

Why is it so hard for you people to snap a photo of your monitor, upload to imgur, and link that here? Assuming you're one of the 100 or so in your class year at S&C, your anonymity is preserved.

I don't understand why you guys feel like you're entitled to a screenshot everytime someone shares the news that their firm matched. Get your head out of your ass and be thankful people are taking the time to post news of their match in the first place.

dude shut up. 90% of the news on here is fake, that's why.

There's only been a couple instances of people actually trolling on here, and when they have, its become obvious within minutes. It's like voting fraud, you guys are making it out to be way more rampant than it is.

Just calm your tits and thank the poster for sharing

real talk tho why is it so hard to paste a screenshot? there's also definitely been more trolling than actual news on here fyi

Because a lot of people are on their work computers and don't want to be uploading firm memos to the public from work.

Why don't they upload it on their phone, you ask? Because who the hell gives enough shits about you degenerates to take the time to pull out their phone, take a picture, go to this website, log in, find the thread, and figure out how to upload an image into a comment?

[Anonymous User]

do people seriously (i) worry about work monitoring their computer and (ii) not keep a laptop at work? seems completely idiotic . .

[Anonymous User]

There can be no statistical analysis when the shitbags running Jones Day won’t release numbers and have a bizarro policy against attorneys discussing comp. I would be absolutely shocked if there wasn’t rampant salary discrimination. They’d probably fire an associate just for bringing up that topic though.

First, they can't legally fire anybody for talking about comp, at least in some of their markets. They're smart enough not to fire people for this since they'll get a massive retaliation claim. Not to mention that they probably know a thing or two about discriminatory practices (they have employment lawyers don't you know), and almost surely track their compensation statistics based on protected classes to ensure that if information leaked out, they would be safe. Let's put it to a vote whose assumption is more reasonable.

Second, please go ahead on your rampage accusing every institution around you of discriminatory practices absent any data to back that up. It's a real effective way to further your cause since I'm sure people who disagree with you LOVE hearing baseless accusations. Best way to get what you want is to offend the world, right? You might, however, want to try a different forum, since this is filled with lawyers (or wanna be lawyers) who actually understand things about evidence, proof, guilt, causality, etc.

Third, it's not a policy - it's a "cultural" thing. Although you clearly don't care about getting your facts straight. Feel free to disagree about whether policy vs. culture makes a difference.

Edited for typos.

[Anonymous User]

do people seriously (i) worry about work monitoring their computer and (ii) not keep a laptop at work? seems completely idiotic . .

The point is that the TLS's confidence means so little to any right-minded associate, that its outweighed by whatever marginal effort it takes to upload a screenshot.

[Anonymous User]

do people seriously (i) worry about work monitoring their computer and (ii) not keep a laptop at work? seems completely idiotic . .

Listen, I know it's in your best interest to try and convince people to post screenshots, but it's never in the posters best interest. Yeah, it's a minimal risk, but it's a risk nonetheless. Maybe they accidentally leave some identifying info in the screenshot (happens all the time), who knows. All we know is the risk of posting a screenshot is non-zero, and the reward is zero. The fact that so many V100 lawyers run here and tell us the moment they get a memo is enough of a gift.

[Anonymous User]

I wonder if firms are holding back their announcement to match because they simply want to avoid the ATL/in-house counsel onslaught whenever associate salaries are bumped to reflect inflation.

It's much easier to simply match when the the media shifts its attention elsewhere.

[anonnymouse]

The rampant anon abuse, done-to-death COL debates, and utterly worthless other tangents here vs the insufferable megapoasters on the other site is a race that is just too close to call.

The only saving grace here is the occasional 180 Yale/Columbia schtick and persistent exposure of the fraud that is Jones Day. Even the DPW clipboards meme got beat to death. Makes me long for the days of NOBONUS and Partner Emeritus (shudder).

[Anonymous User]

There can be no statistical analysis when the shitbags running Jones Day won’t release numbers and have a bizarro policy against attorneys discussing comp. I would be absolutely shocked if there wasn’t rampant salary discrimination. They’d probably fire an associate just for bringing up that topic though.

First, they can't legally fire anybody for talking about comp, at least in some of their markets. They're smart enough not to fire people for this since they'll get a massive retaliation claim. Not to mention that they probably know a thing or two about discriminatory practices (they have employment lawyers don't you know), and almost surely track their compensation statistics based on protected classes to ensure that if information leaked out, they would be safe. Let's put it to a vote whose assumption is more reasonable.

Second, please go ahead on your rampage accusing every institution around you of discriminatory practices absent any data to back that up. It's a real effective way to further your cause since I'm sure people who disagree with you LOVE hearing baseless accusations. Best way to get what you want is to offend the world, right? You might. however, want to try a different forum , since this is filled with lawyers (or wanna be lawyers) who actually understand things about evidence, proof, guilt, causality, etc.

Third, it's not a policy - it's a "cultural" thing. Although you clearly don't care about getting your facts straight. Feel free to disagree about whether policy vs. culture makes a difference.

First, they could easily figure out a way to fire people for talking about comp with "firing them for talking about comp." They certainly are aware of their compensation statistics, guard them with intense care, only give access to a very very select few, and have defenses prepped and ready to go in the unlikely scenario that numbers leak. They have had to invent ways to defend Donald Trump, so no doubt they have creative arguments teed up and ready to go for salary discrimination.

Second, I have accused no other firm of being a deceitful, malicious shithole like Jones Day is when it comes to associate compensation. Because I can't think of any other firm that sinks to Jones Day's level. In comparison, Kirkland has individualized bonuses but gives their associates median bonus numbers to compare across classes and among their peers, and there is no ridiculous policy or "culture" that prevents attorneys from discussion compensation among themselves. Think to yourself whom Jones Day's secrecy benefits -- it's certainly not the associates, even if the firm conditions some associates to instinctively defend the firm's compensation mysteries.

Third, whether it's an official written policy or mandated "culture," it's made clear to all associates that if they discussion compensation numbers with other associates, repercussions will come.

[Anonymous User]

The rampant anon abuse, done-to-death COL debates, and utterly worthless other tangents here vs the insufferable megapoasters on the other site is a race that is just too close to call.

The only saving grace here is the occasional 180 Yale/Columbia schtick and persistent exposure of the fraud that is Jones Day. Even the DPW clipboards meme got beat to death. Makes me long for the days of NOBONUS and Partner Emeritus (shudder).

Truth. An amusing aside every few hours for the past week, but yikes if you do this year round.

[Anonymous User]

do people seriously (i) worry about work monitoring their computer and (ii) not keep a laptop at work? seems completely idiotic . .

Listen, I know it's in your best interest to try and convince people to post screenshots, but it's never in the posters best interest. Yeah, it's a minimal risk, but it's a risk nonetheless. Maybe they accidentally leave some identifying info in the screenshot (happens all the time), who knows. All we know is the risk of posting a screenshot is non-zero, and the reward is zero. The fact that so many V100 lawyers run here and tell us the moment they get a memo is enough of a gift.

I don't really care, but the purpose was just to point out if people seriously think their firm is monitoring their computer, it's crazy not to keep a laptop in the office

[Anonymous User]

S&C matched cravath, including bonus. (Info is sent out individually, so I can only confirm for one class year)

Why is it so hard for you people to snap a photo of your monitor, upload to imgur, and link that here? Assuming you're one of the 100 or so in your class year at S&C, your anonymity is preserved.

I don't understand why you guys feel like you're entitled to a screenshot everytime someone shares the news that their firm matched. Literally every time someone shares, some asshats gotta comment "WHERE'S THE SCREENSHOT BUDDY? PICS OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN"

Get your head out of your ass and be thankful people are taking the time to post news of their match in the first place.

This is what the stress of being in the lower-middle class does to people.

[Anonymous User]

do people seriously (i) worry about work monitoring their computer and (ii) not keep a laptop at work? seems completely idiotic . .

Listen, I know it's in your best interest to try and convince people to post screenshots, but it's never in the posters best interest. Yeah, it's a minimal risk, but it's a risk nonetheless. Maybe they accidentally leave some identifying info in the screenshot (happens all the time), who knows. All we know is the risk of posting a screenshot is non-zero, and the reward is zero. The fact that so many V100 lawyers run here and tell us the moment they get a memo is enough of a gift.

I don't really care, but the purpose was just to point out if people seriously think their firm is monitoring their computer, it's crazy not to keep a laptop in the office

At DPW you're required to submit your personal laptop to an afternoon and evening browser history check.

[Anonymous User]

First, they could easily figure out a way to fire people for talking about comp with "firing them for talking about comp." They certainly are aware of their compensation statistics, guard them with intense care, only give access to a very very select few, and have defenses prepped and ready to go in the unlikely scenario that numbers leak. They have had to invent ways to defend Donald Trump, so no doubt they have creative arguments teed up and ready to go for salary discrimination.

Glad you accurately use "could" here, rather than just assuming that "could" means "does." Step in the right direction. But sad face to the following arguments: (1) Obligatory Trump association evidencing an ethical problem across the firm. Please hate on defenders of death row inmates too. (2) This has really escalated from a "they probably have bias in their pay without evidence" story to a "there's a conspiracy in which they are actively concealing their implicit bias" story. Love that you're really going for it. (3) Coming back to the use of "could" - still loving the "they could therefore they must be doing it" argument regarding firing people. Come back when you find an example.

Second, I have accused no other firm of being a deceitful, malicious shithole like Jones Day is when it comes to associate compensation. Because I can't think of any other firm that sinks to Jones Day's level. In comparison, Kirkland has individualized bonuses but gives their associates median bonus numbers to compare across classes and among their peers, and there is no ridiculous policy or "culture" that prevents attorneys from discussion compensation among themselves. Think to yourself whom Jones Day's secrecy benefits -- it's certainly not the associates, even if the firm conditions some associates to instinctively defend the firm's compensation mysteries.

Sorry, I played in too much. You're right that I shouldn't assume that you're accusing everybody. Just Jones Day. Please just confirm that you've never made a similar accusation about actual bias or even discriminatory impact for which you had no tangible evidence. Oh wait... I assumed again.

Third, whether it's an official written policy or mandated "culture," it's made clear to all associates that if they discussion compensation numbers with other associates, repercussions will come.

Dare I say show me the memo or it didn't happen? Again you're going to need more proof than your hunches. Though I'm sure in your learned experience your hunches are always accurate.

Seriously wouldn't it just be easier for you to argue that this might enable discrimination and ask that they change their policy to ensure that they don't do that? It would make you seem way more reasonable than someone who says "JD must be hiding a discrimination conspiracy because they are evil (I mean because they can)." See my point on tailoring arguments to your audience in the previous post.