Bonus Speculation Forum

[Anonymous User]

Given that Williams & Connolly raised salaries recently, it seems like they expect total compensation at standard biglaw firms to stay at least flat, compared to last year.

[jbagelboy]

Cravath stands strong with stagnant bonuses. Associate morale plummets, dissent foments in the ranks.

Simpson can't resist. The year has been too good, and they are as ever aggressive on one-upping the old guard market leaders. They raise associate salaries starting at 200K.

Cravath associate resignation threats flood in and the firm quickly caves, raising salaries to match AND putting record bonuses starting at 10K up from last year for the first year bonus.

Cleary, Davis Polk, and others quickly rise to match.

The partners are broken, their days of hoarding the wealth over. Meekly they accede to stronger Associate Committee leadership involvement, 401 matches, and diet Dr. Pepper stocked in every fridge.

A golden new era of the proud, respected associate is upon us. Bask, my children, in the sunlight that is to come!

& La croix, bro, minimum four flavor choices

[Anonymous User]

What kind of cost cutting? Getting rid of outdated services like the library/librarian is unfortunate but understandable. Getting rid of snacks is not.

Anyway, our hopes really lie with Cravath with dark horse S&C and maybe STB?

Ya interested as to what cost cutting measures are happening places.

The move to high-deductible health plans is probably the biggest one. DPW did it a couple of years ago, STB is transitioning this year, I think a few other very profitable firms (like Paul Weiss) are moving or have moved recently also.

Latham also taking away JR associate offices in NY and other smaller markets.

Interesting, I heard from someone at LW that this was strictly a space issue, not cost-cutting. I think they didn't start renos soon enough, but didn't know it was happening in non-NY offices.

I believe offices are doing renovations with the goal of creating bullpens for junior associates, so I'm not sure I fully buy that it's just due to space.

Off the top of my head, I know Boston and San Francisco are both piloting open office plan.

[Anonymous User]

How common are above market bonuses for first years? Is it usually based on hours or merit?

[SmokeytheBear]

How common are above market bonuses for first years? Is it usually based on hours or merit?

Hours = merit. Don’t kid yourself.

[Anonymous User]

Given that Williams & Connolly raised salaries recently, it seems like they expect total compensation at standard biglaw firms to stay at least flat, compared to last year.

Well, that was already a foregone conclusion. Bonuses have only ever gone down in recession years (2001, 2003, 2008 and 2009). They are otherwise always flat or up. Given that 2017 is not a recession year, you're safe assuming the bonus scale will be at least as generous as last year.

[2014]

How common are above market bonuses for first years? Is it usually based on hours or merit?

Stub years or rising 2nd years?

If stub years, lol

[Anonymous User]

What kind of cost cutting? Getting rid of outdated services like the library/librarian is unfortunate but understandable. Getting rid of snacks is not.

Anyway, our hopes really lie with Cravath with dark horse S&C and maybe STB?

Ya interested as to what cost cutting measures are happening places.

The move to high-deductible health plans is probably the biggest one. DPW did it a couple of years ago, STB is transitioning this year, I think a few other very profitable firms (like Paul Weiss) are moving or have moved recently also.

Latham also taking away JR associate offices in NY and other smaller markets.

Interesting, I heard from someone at LW that this was strictly a space issue, not cost-cutting. I think they didn't start renos soon enough, but didn't know it was happening in non-NY offices.

I believe offices are doing renovations with the goal of creating bullpens for junior associates, so I'm not sure I fully buy that it's just due to space.

Off the top of my head, I know Boston and San Francisco are both piloting open office plan.

W/R/T bullpen space for junior associates, it is almost universally loathed from what I hear. There was an effort to implement it in a couple of other offices that were expanding/remodeling. I know of at least one instance where it was quashed. I am senior enough now that I would not have been included in that environment, but good luck convincing 2Ls interviewing in this city that its a good thing / reason to come here. Shared offices are one thing, but bullpen is awful. Space was not an issue, just the firm trying to be cutting edge or whatever.

[Anonymous User]

the greed of partners knows no bounds
bullpen ? Really ? When people are working 90 hour weeks to pay for your third house ?

[Anonymous User]

W/R/T bullpen space for junior associates, it is almost universally loathed from what I hear. There was an effort to implement it in a couple of other offices that were expanding/remodeling. I know of at least one instance where it was quashed. I am senior enough now that I would not have been included in that environment, but good luck convincing 2Ls interviewing in this city that its a good thing / reason to come here. Shared offices are one thing, but bullpen is awful. Space was not an issue, just the firm trying to be cutting edge or whatever.

It's not surprising to hear that nobody liked the bullpen. Firm leadership has been pushing the narrative that "it's working well in New York and juniors like it" in order to get more buy in from people. I definitely had a hard time believing it when I heard them say that.

I'm frankly surprised that there has been enough pushback to get it quashed anywhere. My understanding is the open office plan would only be applied to Juniors - AKA the people the partners don't care about.

[AntipodeanPhil]

If I we're going through the OCI process again, I would absolutely avoid firms with open plan office space if I had any other offers. Sounds awful.

[LaLiLuLeLo]

Firms are moving towards open spaces, at least for juniors, and making them share outside of NYC. Stupid boomer partners see what tech does and want to be "cool" but they're obviously out of touch. Shocker.

[rpupkin]

Firms are moving towards open spaces, at least for juniors, and making them share outside of NYC. Stupid boomer partners see what tech does and want to be "cool" but they're obviously out of touch. Shocker.

I doubt the bolded is the actual explanation; it's at most an excuse. The real explanation is that they want to save money.

Note that, in "cool" tech environments like FB, the managers and executives don't have offices either. But I have yet to hear of a big law firm that is moving toward open-space plans in which partners give up their offices.

[bruinfan10]

Firms are moving towards open spaces, at least for juniors, and making them share outside of NYC. Stupid boomer partners see what tech does and want to be "cool" but they're obviously out of touch. Shocker.

I doubt the bolded is the actual explanation; it's at most an excuse. The real explanation is that they want to save money.

Note that, in "cool" tech environments like FB, the managers and executives don't have offices either. But I have yet to hear of a big law firm that is moving toward open-space plans in which partners give up their offices.

game set match

[Anonymous User]

Firms are moving towards open spaces, at least for juniors, and making them share outside of NYC. Stupid boomer partners see what tech does and want to be "cool" but they're obviously out of touch. Shocker.

I doubt the bolded is the actual explanation; it's at most an excuse. The real explanation is that they want to save money.

Note that, in "cool" tech environments like FB, the managers and executives don't have offices either. But I have yet to hear of a big law firm that is moving toward open-space plans in which partners give up their offices.

Recent OCI CB interview with a partner at an "open space" firm that opened new offices: "There was a fight for frosted glass. Forget corner offices."

[Anonymous User]

I doubt the bolded is the actual explanation; it's at most an excuse. The real explanation is that they want to save money.

Everyone knows that open office plans aren't cool anymore anyway. Even tech companies are moving to seating plans that have private enclaves you can sign out, rather than forcing everyone to sit at a long table like they work at an actual sweat shop.

[Anonymous User]

which NYC firms have gone to open office? I'm in a secondary market and we aren't seeing this here...yet

[Anonymous User]

Shared offices are one thing, but bullpen is awful. Space was not an issue, just the firm trying to be cutting edge or whatever.

Not familiar with bullpens, but it sounds absurd. For a lengthy variety of reasons what is totally ridiculous are glass offices.

[2014]

Idk of any NY firms that have gone to open floor plans but the trend is moving to a "if you want to sit alone before you are a [~4th year] you have to take an interior" situation.

As an aside, solo offices are falling out of fashion in most industries, it's not just a tech thing. It's a weird entitlement thing for us to act like we really need solo space. So long as people who prefer silence have access to quiet spaces to work and there is private conference space for calls, there's no reason anyone here couldn't function in a more modern seating arrangement but all changes lead to complaints.

[KM2016]

Can we get back to talking about how much more money we are going to make when Cravath blows the bonus scale out of the water?

[LaLiLuLeLo]

Idk of any NY firms that have gone to open floor plans but the trend is moving to a "if you want to sit alone before you are a [~4th year] you have to take an interior" situation.

As an aside, solo offices are falling out of fashion in most industries, it's not just a tech thing. It's a weird entitlement thing for us to act like we really need solo space. So long as people who prefer silence have access to quiet spaces to work and there is private conference space for calls, there's no reason anyone here couldn't function in a more modern seating arrangement but all changes lead to complaints.

I absolutely need a solo office. How else am I going to watch Netflix???

[SmokeytheBear]

Can we get back to talking about how much more money we are going to make when Cravath blows the bonus scale out of the water?

Fingers crossed bro. Already spent a bunch last weekend.

[dabigchina]

So long as people who prefer silence have access to quiet spaces to work and there is private conference space for calls.

That's a big assumption in my experience. I worked in an open office plan before law school and there are always way more people who want privacy than there are privacy enclaves.

Also the problem was rarely calls. Calls never really bothered me too much. It was always people loudly fucking around when I was slammed and needed to push a lot of work product out that pissed me off.

eta: I should add that the worst offenders were significantly senior to me, so it was hard to tell them to shut the fuck up.

[PorscheFanatic]

Can we get back to talking about how much more money we are going to make when Cravath blows the bonus scale out of the water?

This. Let's go back to this.

[LaLiLuLeLo]

Anyone work at Cravath? Did they give any hints at a firm address?