Will a Tax LLM from NYU reopen Biglaw Forum

[Anonymous User]

If you don’t land biglaw, will doing the LLM give you another bite at the apple?

[Anonymous User]

In the NYU LLM right now.

Resounding yes. It's 1L on roids though.

[Anonymous User]

Resounding yes.

Are most students out of the LLM headed to biglaw? I was under the impression that many go to big 4 firms.

It's 1L on roids though.

How do you mean?

[gaddockteeg]

Resounding yes.

Are most students out of the LLM headed to biglaw? I was under the impression that many go to big 4 firms.

It's 1L on roids though.

How do you mean?

I think "another bite at the apple" is fairly different than "most students headed to big law."

I'm not the anon but I would guess that 1/4 to 1/3 of the LLMs get big law, which is pretty dang good imo.

[sparkytrainer]

It is my understanding from friends who did the NYU LLM was that if you were at least competitive for biglaw as a JD student, then you have a decent chance. However, if you were at a TTT school for example or you otherwise were not competitive for biglaw as a JD student, your chances at biglaw are actually pretty low. Don't think a LLM is magically gonna get you biglaw. It seems about 1/4th of the class gets biglaw. If you are coming from a t13 school, thats drastically lower than your chances as a JD where each has 50% or higher biglaw chances.

[gatorfan163287]

I just finished the program in May. Came from a T20 school before going there.

If you're not biglaw material before the program, you're not going to be biglaw material with the LLM. Probably a quarter of our class got biglaw. A decent number of those (maybe half-ish) already had biglaw jobs waiting for them before entering the program. A majority of our class went big 4. Even some of the kids that aced the program (think around 3.8-3.9) and went to decent law schools struck out in biglaw interviews. Not many firms came to the TIP program this past spring. Mostly people just got big 4 jobs from it. So while it is I suppose another bite at the apple to say it is a resounding yes is simply fooling yourself as to whether or not simply enrolling in the program means firms will look at/interview you. You have to have gone to a decent school, have connections, or do well at NYU (more than likely a combination of all of them).

Also, as was mentioned it is a shitload of work and it felt like 1L year again with the studying and competitiveness. Make sure you like tax law before enrolling or it will be a miserable experience. But if you like tax law there's no better place in the country to learn it.

It is also an avenue to get a Tax Court clerkship. NYU carries a lot of weight (along with Georgetown and UF) with judges when they hire clerks. NYU and Georgetown both have interview days early in the fall (both already happened) at the Court. Getting a clerkship allows people in the program to lock down a job early and not have to worry about it for the rest of the year and to focus on their grades/have a less stressful experience overall. This is what I did and without going to NYU I don't think this door would have been open to me had I not done the program. But if biglaw is all you want, no the program is likely not worth the year of lost earning power, tuition, living in NYC expenses, stress, etc. just to end up in the same spot you were before.

[Anonymous User]

Anon NYU Tax LLM here. Figured I would elaborate and stuff b/c on TLS I really believe it's a pay it forward kind of deal. So help out others, you future OPs, just as older posts on here have helped me.

First, I want to underscore this really is a tough program - like 1L year but with no time to wade around the pool with those arm band floaty thingies.

TBH, for me personally - the atmosphere among the Tax LLM class is not what I expected. I thought the students would be more collegial but maybe that is just because my previous law school was quite small. They are friendly enough though. We do have some cliques already of course. Courses are dense and the professors move fast. This is a make or break semester.

As expected, professors are crème de la crème - impressive academically and professionally. Personality-wise, they are all down-to-earth and either incredibly friendly and positive, or amusingly sarcastic and funny. So depending on on courses and the personal situation - the experience cuts both ways.

My class has a very bright and driven cohort of recent grands from weak T1- T2 schools in the Midwest, South, and Mountain West that are NY biglaw or bust - some even with Big4 / BigLaw offers in smaller markets before they came here. Even with opportunities to go back to their smaller markets with increased salaries, or guaranteed >$100k offers, seems like the majority of students are eager to take a shot at getting that NY biglaw salary.

I'll be clear and say - I have no doubts everyone will get a nice job and healthy salary upon completion of the tax program. But biglaw numbers in Tax have trended downward over the previous years. As of Today - looks like Biglaw in NY is also looking to be a reach for most- likely ~10 spots available. I dunno, or maybe CSO is playing mind games. If you do/get invited to the Tax Law Review, you also automatically get some points there in your efforts. So kinda sucks that a select group of classmates may get that inherent advantage from the get-go.

It's probably true that you need to be or look like Biglaw material before you get here. Tax Law Review helps - as I've mentioned + any other kind of meaningful law firm experience you've had that looks like it was really competitive to get.

From what I hear and have seen, looks like Big4 is attainable for most. I have a couple of friends who did NYU LLM to Big4 in NYC and are really happy with the work. Prestige + salary difference in comparison to recent grads + what others in the program end up doing is probably an influential external factor for most though.

[Anonymous User]

T6 grad, was a corporate associate for a year. Left to do something legal-related, but not partner-track, at another big firm and regret the move a month in. That said, I don't necessarily want to jump back into corporate and have always wanted to break into tax and/or private client work. I always regretted not trying harder to break into those practices as a 2L. Would an LLM from NYU (assuming I get in), reposition me to apply to these positions? (Sort of feeling like I really fucked up my life and thinking of begging my firm for my job back, but also remember how intensely I hated the meat-grinder that was corporate law...)

[Anonymous User]

I am not a tax LLM, but I personally know two people who did not get big law in JD but got it through NYU tax LLM, with no work experience in between the two degree programs. So, yes, it is definitely possible, and my guess is that your tax LLM grades do matter a lot. But as others said I would not count on it. Tax classes at NYU are genuinely competitive: All the LLM people study like 1Ls, and on top of that some JDs take advanced tax classes and steal the scarce A's from the LLMs who actually need them. My guess based on conversations with LLM friends is that roughly 1/3 of the LLMs get big law; the rest fight for big four accounting. I do not know how many get neither, but I also personally know at least two people who got neither.

[Anonymous User]

Damn. That's good to know. I was a fairly average student in law school (luckily in a school where average meant biglaw), but if that's not the case for a tax LLM, I shouldn't pretend that I could have been top of the class if I just tried a little harder. Thanks!

[Anonymous User]

Look at the stats if you want to know how many people went to big law firms. Those stats below are from 2016, and I'd imagine law firm hiring has been more conservative in the last year due to legislative uncertainty. Some of the folks I know in law firms are very very busy and feel very understaffed, though I am not sure if that is particular to their firm/practice area/client base or if it is true more broadly. On top of those figures, I think that people who clerk or go to accounting firms have a chance to get into law firms after a year or so. So if you don't get biglaw out of JD, then the LLM can provide another bite at the apple, as can getting a transferable job in tax and working for 1-3 years. As to how big a bite of that apple the LLM or two years at the tax court or big four will get you, your mileage can vary depending on where you went to law school, grades, intellect, personality, leadership potential, criminal record, etc. My sense is that larger law firms are more conservative in their entry level hiring than they are for hiring a second or third year from a big 4 firm's M & A group. http://www.law.nyu.edu/sites/default/fi ... istics.pdf

[Anonymous User]

My friend was not biglaw eligible at a t50 school. Passed the bar while waiting that summer. Went straight to nyu llm and did well (over top third certainly) and landed biglaw before the end of his second semester. Biglaw firm was back in his home market.

- Anon because has details about my friend and I am identifiable

[Anonymous User]

If you have no interest in doing biglaw and would prefer to be in the Big4, is it worth doing a tax LLM (from NYU and/or maybe GULC?) to give yourself a bite at a Big4 role? Or are there too few Big4 jobs to go along to make the tuition and time worth it?

[Anonymous User]

If you have no interest in doing biglaw and would prefer to be in the Big4, is it worth doing a tax LLM (from NYU and/or maybe GULC?) to give yourself a bite at a Big4 role? Or are there too few Big4 jobs to go along to make the tuition and time worth it?

Do you have tax experience (internship, JD classes, pre-JD work experience, accounting background, etc)?

[Anonymous User]

I have work experience, but it's in corporate work, so I'd be making a switch.

[Anonymous User]

I'm a first year at a v50 in NYC. I have an accounting background (Cpa) and want to do tax, but I didn't take any classes in law school except personal income tax. What's the best way to make a switch to another law firms tax practice? My firm only has 3-4 tax attorneys who provide support/diligence on corp. transactions. I feel like it will be really hard to lateral, but I also don't want to pay for an LLM or forgo big law income.