Go In-House Early In Career? Forum

[flymia]

I am 100% counting my chickens before the eggs hatch but I am interested in seeing some responses.

Passed the bar in Summer 2014. Worked at a small RE fund for a year in-house, and then moved to where I am now. Its a good small firm, in a location where we share the building with AMLaw 100 firms, not some shopping center corner shop. Practice is primarily Real Estate transactions (large commercial deals to small residential deals), commercial lit and just taking care of various legal issues for really wealthy people.

I enjoy the job, pay is decent for such a small firm at around $75k plus 50% of what I bring in, this year that would be around $12k but that has been going up each qtr and I know with actually getting out there and networking I can get that number up much higher. Hours are good 50-55hr a week relaxed working environment, and I really take a lead role on what I work on. First chaired arbitration recently, might have a fed jury trial soon, take a lead on most real estate negotiations.

I interviewed for an in-house job at a large well known international company that has their N.A. HQ here. The company is in the field that I always wanted to be in, since I was a young kid, that is why I applied, I have a passion for this industry. Company is big, $6-7+ billion dollars a year revenue. Position would be a their most junior counsel in a small 4-5 attorney team. Pay is a range of around $100k plus possible bonus, 401k etc..

Have a second interview in a few days with an officer of the company after having a very good 1-hour interview with their GC a few weeks ago.
Here are some things that would hold be back with a potential offer, and really where I am looking for input.

Its salary, plus bonus (though I've been told the bonuses are not large and based on company performance). Where I am now outside of the hours I work with the $75k-$78k range I have some control on what I make. I bring in the right deals I could make $40-$60k extra. Just this month I am about to make over $5k-$6k on one deal. I know its hard to network but I do like that I have control on making money and there is no cap. My managing partner has made a ton of money doing what he does. That being said, having a set salary, knowing what I will make, not being worried about building a book of business and billing hours, and not worrying whether I will have a book of business large enough to help support the firm in 3-5 years is not a bad thing either, and sounds nice honestly.

Exit options. Crazy to think about it before even getting an offer, but where does this lead to. I looked up every attorney I could at this company, most stay there at least 5+ years, which is a good thing. But then what? Where I am now I could always try to seek another firm.

Does going In-House after 3-years limit me to in-house for my career? Do junior in-house attorneys ever make a move to say a large law firm after practicing at a large company?

TLDR: 3-years in working at a small firm, like the job (don't love it) make decent pay, have opportunity to grow income as much as my networking allows OR to go in-house in field I love/passionate about, salary around the same, but its a set salary. Any negatives going in-house that should worry me being 3-years in?

Again, all based on IF I get an offer. This discussion might be beneficial to someone else someday too regardless.

Thanks for the advice/input.

[Anonymous User]

BUMP - also curious

[sopranorleone]

I went in-house 1.5 years into big law, and I love it. I took a pay cut, whereas you would be making more than your base (not including your cut of the business you bring to your firm). This seems like a no-brainer.

However, I don't know of many in-house attorneys that leave to go to big law. I suspect this may be because most don't want to. If you do really want to go a big firm, it may be best to aim for that now, and then try to go in-house. I don't know if it's harder to do the reverse, but it certainly is more uncommon.

[Anonymous User]

Second year associate who knows very little about in house: To me it seems like you're getting to do a lot of interesting stuff and are at a place that rewards initiative. My impression with very little information is that in house would be significantly more boring.

[Anonymous User]

Second year associate who knows very little about in house: To me it seems like you're getting to do a lot of interesting stuff and are at a place that rewards initiative. My impression with very little information is that in house would be significantly more boring.

You are correct. Where I am I get to deal with a lot of different areas of law but still have time to be able to really say I have extensive experience in Real Estate transactions, leases, litigation. And absolutely, when I bring in business I get a very nice size of the profit (after expenses and my working time). Some business is crazy easy, say a luxury real estate closing, but brining in litigation would be lower rewards (unless contingency) and also harder to get litigation when you are not that "go to" for a type of case.

As for in-house being boring. The way they have described the job I don't think it will be, but it might. I get that it will be corporate, and there will be many things I will do over and over, but the difference here is the industry this company is in, is my hobby, my passion. So the things I would do over and over is something I really enjoy, while I believe, from my discussions with the company there will be opportunity to be in different areas. It is a small legal team, and this position is specifically meant for a generalist, someone to do a lot of different things, and someone who really has a passion for the industry.

[oblig.lawl.ref]

Second year associate who knows very little about in house: To me it seems like you're getting to do a lot of interesting stuff and are at a place that rewards initiative. My impression with very little information is that in house would be significantly more boring.

You are correct. Where I am I get to deal with a lot of different areas of law but still have time to be able to really say I have extensive experience in Real Estate transactions, leases, litigation. And absolutely, when I bring in business I get a very nice size of the profit (after expenses and my working time). Some business is crazy easy, say a luxury real estate closing, but brining in litigation would be lower rewards (unless contingency) and also harder to get litigation when you are not that "go to" for a type of case.

As for in-house being boring. The way they have described the job I don't think it will be, but it might. I get that it will be corporate, and there will be many things I will do over and over, but the difference here is the industry this company is in, is my hobby, my passion. So the things I would do over and over is something I really enjoy, while I believe, from my discussions with the company there will be opportunity to be in different areas. It is a small legal team, and this position is specifically meant for a generalist, someone to do a lot of different things, and someone who really has a passion for the industry.

I think if you have a question about this at all it's a hard question for random people on the internet to answer for you. I think most people, right or wrong, would go in house in a second if it meant a decent pay raise. Most struggle with it because it's a pay cut. I think clearly you have some partner ship ambitions that many here do not. So I have no advice for you. Just came here to say I would take it.

[lolwat]

I think if you have a question about this at all it's a hard question for random people on the internet to answer for you. I think most people, right or wrong, would go in house in a second if it meant a decent pay raise. Most struggle with it because it's a pay cut. I think clearly you have some partner ship ambitions that many here do not. So I have no advice for you. Just came here to say I would take it.

I think it's difficult to answer in large part because most people who would go in-house in a second are often those trying to escape from the bullshit that is biglaw. OP is at a small firm they seems to actually enjoy, hours are good, and they gets to take the lead on a bunch of stuff. OP seems to also be able to actually generate some business which lots of people can't or don't care to put the effort into doing. That's not the usual situation people from which people are trying to lateral in-house.

Personally, I'm far less inclined to suggest lateraling if the person is happy, and there's job security (as much as reasonably available in this profession anyway) and room for career advancement at the current job.

[malibustacy]

Seems like you're getting good work and networking in your current firm. I'd say you lucked out. You're in a position to build really good skills and expertise where you are now, and there will always be in-house jobs waiting in the future if you feel inclined down that route.

My opinion would be to stick with your current job. In-house jobs can be super monotonous and routine, with little upward mobility unless you're jumping from in-house job to in-house job.

[oblig.lawl.ref]

The posts above raise good points. I would disagree with the idea that there are always in-house jobs around, however. If that was true, this would be an easy question. I would also disagree with the blanket proposition that in-house jobs are generally more boring. I'd say like 1/7 people I've talked to in-house have said that. Most I know love it. They may be at different type of companies and are comparing to BL, though. I think turning down the in-house offer would have real long-term risk but I do agree staying in your current firm seems to have more upside. I think staying in the firm is basically higher risk higher reward; job prospect change much faster at a firm than in-house, generally I think.

Bottomline is it's a hard question.

[flymia]

These are all great replies with really good points. I guess we will have to see if I even get an offer first.

Either way, even if I don't get an offer this has made me realize my current position is pretty good even though sometimes I doubt myself about where I'm at. I really have built some strong skills at my firm and quality of life is good.

We will see what happens. IF I get an offer I will have some thinking to do.

I will say this though. An in-house job like this comes around every 2-4 years in my area. Where I live we don't have a ton of multinational companies, and there are very few companies in the world that do what this company does.

[flymia]

The interview with the executive went well. Now the company wants to set up an interview with their leaders in the home country along with one more higher up in the N.A. operation. Given this I assume I must be one of the few being considered and offer may come along if this last step goes well.

Making time out of my day from my employer who has no idea I am looking for the job (this is really the only job I have applied to in almost two years) is hard.

We will see what happens. Hopefully I will have a decision to make.

[Anonymous User]

I went in-house immediately after the bar with a similar sized organization by revenue. It sounds like we have a much larger law department (unless you are really silo'd) with about 30 attorneys.

Salaries here are higher than you suggest your company pays, with a defined career structure making a couple of rounds of promotion available typically over 8-10 years. Your salary is probably significantly below median for large company in-house counsel and I would want to know about promotion options that will get you closer to market in your time there.

If this company is where you want to be because of your market interest, it would be a shame if you later had to leave because they're not paying you reasonably.

[flymia]

I went in-house immediately after the bar with a similar sized organization by revenue. It sounds like we have a much larger law department (unless you are really silo'd) with about 30 attorneys.

Salaries here are higher than you suggest your company pays, with a defined career structure making a couple of rounds of promotion available typically over 8-10 years. Your salary is probably significantly below median for large company in-house counsel and I would want to know about promotion options that will get you closer to market in your time there.

If this company is where you want to be because of your market interest, it would be a shame if you later had to leave because they're not paying you reasonably.

Well what I know is that this position is their most junior and that they have at the minimal two more higher levels which I assume pay goes up of course. I agree that I would want to make sure pay would go up to the $150k range after some time in at the very least. Which I think it does.

IF I get an offer I will want a lot of details on how one moves up from Junior Counsel to Senior Counsel etc.. which I assume is where larger pay increases come in. They did mention yearly raises based off of company performance and reviews.

It is a small team here in the U.S. in their home country they have about 20 more attorneys. The U.S. base is around 1.6-1.8 billion in revenue, not huge, but not small.

I will also say that where I live, pay is not up to standards as say compared to SF, NYC, Boston, D.C., Chicago etc.. even though COL is pretty high but not as high.