Believing that law school grades represent chances of success in practice is a wildly racist belief Forum

[Desert Fox]

1-Black associates are not worse than white associates
2-Black students do worse on average in law school
3-Thus, school success is irrelevant.

[BasilHallward]

Okay… I agree that law school grades have a strong factor of arbitrariness, etc., but to expressly state that such a belief is wildly racist is just weird. I'm assuming your studying for ConLaw and running into some disparate impact cases??

[Harvard_Naw]

Go home, you're drunk.

[anyriotgirl]

this is a new direction for you

[kellyfrost]

Okay… I agree that law school grades have a strong factor of arbitrariness, etc., but to expressly state that such a belief is wildly racist is just weird. I'm assuming your studying for ConLaw and running into some disparate impact cases??

I think OP is a law school grad.

[Dcc617]

Okay… I agree that law school grades have a strong factor of arbitrariness, etc., but to expressly state that such a belief is wildly racist is just weird. I'm assuming your studying for ConLaw and running into some disparate impact cases??

I think OP is a law school grad.

Yeah, he's just a bored asshole sometimes.

[Danger Zone]

[stoopkid13]

Okay… I agree that law school grades have a strong factor of arbitrariness, etc., but to expressly state that such a belief is wildly racist is just weird. I'm assuming your studying for ConLaw and running into some disparate impact cases??

[kellyfrost]

Okay… I agree that law school grades have a strong factor of arbitrariness, etc., but to expressly state that such a belief is wildly racist is just weird. I'm assuming your studying for ConLaw and running into some disparate impact cases??

I think OP is a law school grad.

Yeah, he's just a bored asshole sometimes.

I've always known him to be trustworthy. Loyal, helpful, fri belt, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent.

[Desert Fox]

this is a new direction for you

df woke up today.

but im serious. black associates are not even a little bit worse. But they often way lower in their class. so i can only conclude law grades are entirely flame.

[PeanutsNJam]

this is a new direction for you

df woke up today.

but im serious. black associates are not even a little bit worse. But they often way lower in their class. so i can only conclude law grades are entirely flame.

Are they really though? It doesn't seem like AA is that substantial at the law firm hiring level. The black people I know going to selective firms are on LR and prob had good grades (idk their grades). I know at least 1 black person who prob had low grades (cause was an annoying gunner 1L but stfu during 2L) and is going to a firm a non-black person at median could get.

[mjb447]

I've always known him to be trustworthy. Loyal, helpful, fri belt, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent.

Is this kind comment your Good Turn for today?

[stoopkid13]

this is a new direction for you

df woke up today.

but im serious. black associates are not even a little bit worse. But they often way lower in their class. so i can only conclude law grades are entirely flame.

Are they really though? It doesn't seem like AA is that substantial at the law firm hiring level. The black people I know going to selective firms are on LR and prob had good grades (idk their grades). I know at least 1 black person who prob had low grades (cause was an annoying gunner 1L but stfu during 2L) and is going to a firm a non-black person at median could get.

Yes, for 1L grades at least. All minorities, including Asians, tend to fall below median, although Blacks perform the worst. (Consequently, Whites tend to fall slightly above median). Blacks have the greatest variance in terms of 1L grades though, so you certainly have many Blacks who get great grades etc. Source (look at Table 5): http://www.lsac.org/docs/default-source ... -12-02.pdf

[PeanutsNJam]

Yes, for 1L grades at least. All minorities, including Asians, tend to fall below median, although Blacks perform the worst. (Consequently, Whites tend to fall slightly above median). Blacks have the greatest variance in terms of 1L grades though, so you certainly have many Blacks who get great grades etc. Source (look at Table 5): http://www.lsac.org/docs/default-source ... -12-02.pdf

I'm not questioning whether minority students have lower grades, I'm asking whether minority summer associates at selective law firms have lower grades than their peers at the same law firm.

[Desert Fox]

Yes, for 1L grades at least. All minorities, including Asians, tend to fall below median, although Blacks perform the worst. (Consequently, Whites tend to fall slightly above median). Blacks have the greatest variance in terms of 1L grades though, so you certainly have many Blacks who get great grades etc. Source (look at Table 5): http://www.lsac.org/docs/default-source ... -12-02.pdf

I'm not questioning whether minority students have lower grades, I'm asking whether minority summer associates at selective law firms have lower grades than their peers at the same law firm.

yea, my old firm had explicit cut offs for everyone except black students. I don't think they had a mexican quota or native though.

[star fox]

this is a new direction for you

df woke up today.

but im serious. black associates are not even a little bit worse. But they often way lower in their class. so i can only conclude law grades are entirely flame.

Are they really though? It doesn't seem like AA is that substantial at the law firm hiring level. The black people I know going to selective firms are on LR and prob had good grades (idk their grades). I know at least 1 black person who prob had low grades (cause was an annoying gunner 1L but stfu during 2L) and is going to a firm a non-black person at median could get.

Yes, for 1L grades at least. All minorities, including Asians, tend to fall below median, although Blacks perform the worst. (Consequently, Whites tend to fall slightly above median). Blacks have the greatest variance in terms of 1L grades though, so you certainly have many Blacks who get great grades etc. Source (look at Table 5): http://www.lsac.org/docs/default-source ... -12-02.pdf

What if you limit it just to Asians who are native English speakers? I bet they are above median.

[kellyfrost]

I've always known him to be trustworthy. Loyal, helpful, fri belt, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent.

Is this kind comment your Good Turn for today?

It is my second of the day. I don't always get one in so it's good to make up for them when possible.

[Hikikomorist]

this is a new direction for you

df woke up today.

but im serious. black associates are not even a little bit worse. But they often way lower in their class. so i can only conclude law grades are entirely flame.

Are they really though? It doesn't seem like AA is that substantial at the law firm hiring level. The black people I know going to selective firms are on LR and prob had good grades (idk their grades). I know at least 1 black person who prob had low grades (cause was an annoying gunner 1L but stfu during 2L) and is going to a firm a non-black person at median could get.

Yes, for 1L grades at least. All minorities, including Asians, tend to fall below median, although Blacks perform the worst. (Consequently, Whites tend to fall slightly above median). Blacks have the greatest variance in terms of 1L grades though, so you certainly have many Blacks who get great grades etc. Source (look at Table 5): http://www.lsac.org/docs/default-source ... -12-02.pdf

What if you limit it just to Asians who are native English speakers? I bet they are above median.

Not sure about this, but it would probably close the gap. Grades, more than test scores, are influenced by environmental/institutional support, so it makes intuitive sense to me that LSAT scores would slightly over-predict 1L grades for groups more likely to be lacking in those environmental factors.

[mjb447]

I've always known him to be trustworthy. Loyal, helpful, fri belt, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent.

Is this kind comment your Good Turn for today?

It is my second of the day. I don't always get one in so it's good to make up for them when possible.

Yeah, never hurts to be prepared.

[kellyfrost]

I've always known him to be trustworthy. Loyal, helpful, fri belt, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent.

Is this kind comment your Good Turn for today?

It is my second of the day. I don't always get one in so it's good to make up for them when possible.

Yeah, never hurts to be prepared.

Helps keep me physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight.

[BasilHallward]

Okay… I agree that law school grades have a strong factor of arbitrariness, etc., but to expressly state that such a belief is wildly racist is just weird. I'm assuming your studying for ConLaw and running into some disparate impact cases??

Thanks. I understand now. Lawl

[star fox]

this is a new direction for you

df woke up today.

but im serious. black associates are not even a little bit worse. But they often way lower in their class. so i can only conclude law grades are entirely flame.

Are they really though? It doesn't seem like AA is that substantial at the law firm hiring level. The black people I know going to selective firms are on LR and prob had good grades (idk their grades). I know at least 1 black person who prob had low grades (cause was an annoying gunner 1L but stfu during 2L) and is going to a firm a non-black person at median could get.

Yes, for 1L grades at least. All minorities, including Asians, tend to fall below median, although Blacks perform the worst. (Consequently, Whites tend to fall slightly above median). Blacks have the greatest variance in terms of 1L grades though, so you certainly have many Blacks who get great grades etc. Source (look at Table 5): http://www.lsac.org/docs/default-source ... -12-02.pdf

What if you limit it just to Asians who are native English speakers? I bet they are above median.

Not sure about this, but it would probably close the gap. Grades, more than test scores, are influenced by environmental/institutional support, so it makes intuitive sense to me that LSAT scores would slightly over-predict 1L grades for groups more likely to be lacking in those environmental factors.

Those race horse issue spotters have gotta place a non-native English speaker at a big disadvantage

[ballouttacontrol]

this is a new direction for you

df woke up today.

but im serious. black associates are not even a little bit worse. But they often way lower in their class. so i can only conclude law grades are entirely flame.

Are they really though? It doesn't seem like AA is that substantial at the law firm hiring level. The black people I know going to selective firms are on LR and prob had good grades (idk their grades). I know at least 1 black person who prob had low grades (cause was an annoying gunner 1L but stfu during 2L) and is going to a firm a non-black person at median could get.

my T14 had AA for LR too, so being on LR didn't really mean you had good grades if you were minority

[grades??]

this is a new direction for you

df woke up today.

but im serious. black associates are not even a little bit worse. But they often way lower in their class. so i can only conclude law grades are entirely flame.

Are they really though? It doesn't seem like AA is that substantial at the law firm hiring level. The black people I know going to selective firms are on LR and prob had good grades (idk their grades). I know at least 1 black person who prob had low grades (cause was an annoying gunner 1L but stfu during 2L) and is going to a firm a non-black person at median could get.

my T14 had AA for LR too, so being on LR didn't really mean you had good grades if you were minority

Same with my t13. There is hardcore AA for LR

[TLSModBot]

I've always known him to be trustworthy. Loyal, helpful, fri belt, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent.

Is this kind comment your Good Turn for today?

It is my second of the day. I don't always get one in so it's good to make up for them when possible.

Yeah, never hurts to be prepared.

Helps keep me physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight.