Bay Area legal market- even smaller than Chicago? Forum

[Anonymous User]

I am trying to get a job in the Bay Area. My impression is that it's even smaller than Chicago (and its vicinity) legal market or they only hire experienced lawyers. Is this impression correct?

If so, why? Aren't there many startups and great companies boosting economies?

[LurkerTurnedMember]

I am trying to get a job in the Bay Area. My impression is that it's even smaller than Chicago (and its vicinity) legal market or they only hire experienced lawyers. Is this impression correct?

If so, why? Aren't there many startups and great companies boosting economies?

It's a pretty big place, including SF, Oakland, and Silicon Valley, with big firms having offices typically in at least two of these cities/places. What makes it hard to get into is that Stanford and Berkeley dominate the area. Also, there's a perception that everyone wants to practice law in Cali (one of the reasons they've been reluctant to make their exam easier, I think). So I think people hiring might naturally lean toward hiring people already in Cali than someone from outside, which brings them back to Berkeley and Stanford.

[rpupkin]

I am trying to get a job in the Bay Area. My impression is that it's even smaller than Chicago (and its vicinity) legal market or they only hire experienced lawyers. Is this impression correct?

SF/SV is about the same size as the Chicago legal market—i.e., there are about the same number of big-firm jobs in both.

Your impression that SF/SV law firms "only hire experienced lawyers" is incorrect.

[Moneytrees]

I would have guessed Chicago's market was way bigger than the bay area's, but I have no hard data.

[rpupkin]

I would have guessed Chicago's market was way bigger than the bay area's, but I have no hard data.

Thirty years Chicago was way bigger than SF/SV. No longer, though. Chicago is now only slightly bigger than SF/SV, and smaller than LA.

[Npret]

I am trying to get a job in the Bay Area. My impression is that it's even smaller than Chicago (and its vicinity) legal market or they only hire experienced lawyers. Is this impression correct?

If so, why? Aren't there many startups and great companies boosting economies?

You can go to NALP and read the number of summers hired at each firm and add them up. That will give you some hard data and a general estimate of summers hired in the area.
Some firms will only report a total for all firms but the data is there for a reasonable estimate.

[rahulg91]

From the NLJ 350 Regional Report:
(The NLJ 350 is a list the 350 largest American law firms by headcount)

CHICAGO

NLJ 350 market rank by headcount: 3
NLJ 350 offices in this market: 94
Lawyers working at NLJ 350 firms: 7,700
Change in number of lawyers (2013-14): -0.6%
NLJ 350 lawyers working in this market: 5.2%
Average headcount of NLJ 350 offices in this market: 82

SAN FRANCISCO BAY AREA

NLJ 350 market rank by headcount: 4
NLJ 350 offices in this market: 201
Lawyers working at NLJ 350 firms: 7,057
Change in number of lawyers (2013-14): -0.7%
NLJ 350 lawyers working in this market: 4.8%
Average headcount of NLJ 350 offices in this market: 35

SOURCE: http://www.nationallawjournal.com/id=1202728676000

[PeanutsNJam]

Also, there's a perception that everyone wants to practice law in Cali (one of the reasons they've been reluctant to make their exam easier, I think).

Not sure that's true. Cali's low bar passage rates are easily explained by the inordinate amount of TTT law schools that are in that state.

[grades??]

Also, there's a perception that everyone wants to practice law in Cali (one of the reasons they've been reluctant to make their exam easier, I think).

Not sure that's true. Cali's low bar passage rates are easily explained by the inordinate amount of TTT law schools that are in that state.

Including the Stanford law dean?

[v5junior]

From the NLJ 350 Regional Report:
(The NLJ 350 is a list the 350 largest American law firms by headcount)

CHICAGO

NLJ 350 market rank by headcount: 3
NLJ 350 offices in this market: 94
Lawyers working at NLJ 350 firms: 7,700
Change in number of lawyers (2013-14): -0.6%
NLJ 350 lawyers working in this market: 5.2%
Average headcount of NLJ 350 offices in this market: 82

SAN FRANCISCO BAY AREA

NLJ 350 market rank by headcount: 4
NLJ 350 offices in this market: 201
Lawyers working at NLJ 350 firms: 7,057
Change in number of lawyers (2013-14): -0.7%
NLJ 350 lawyers working in this market: 4.8%
Average headcount of NLJ 350 offices in this market: 35

SOURCE: http://www.nationallawjournal.com/id=1202728676000

Could you post 1 and 2 here? I would never have guessed that LA is #2.

[dabigchina]

Also, there's a perception that everyone wants to practice law in Cali (one of the reasons they've been reluctant to make their exam easier, I think).

Not sure that's true. Cali's low bar passage rates are easily explained by the inordinate amount of TTT law schools that are in that state.

Including the Stanford law dean?

I'm guessing she didn't study that hard since she was already a fairly accomplished lawyer when she took it.

That being said, the CA bar is pretty hard.

[Wacked Wombat]

From the NLJ 350 Regional Report:
(The NLJ 350 is a list the 350 largest American law firms by headcount)

CHICAGO

NLJ 350 market rank by headcount: 3
NLJ 350 offices in this market: 94
Lawyers working at NLJ 350 firms: 7,700
Change in number of lawyers (2013-14): -0.6%
NLJ 350 lawyers working in this market: 5.2%
Average headcount of NLJ 350 offices in this market: 82

SAN FRANCISCO BAY AREA

NLJ 350 market rank by headcount: 4
NLJ 350 offices in this market: 201
Lawyers working at NLJ 350 firms: 7,057
Change in number of lawyers (2013-14): -0.7%
NLJ 350 lawyers working in this market: 4.8%
Average headcount of NLJ 350 offices in this market: 35

SOURCE: http://www.nationallawjournal.com/id=1202728676000

Could you post 1 and 2 here? I would never have guessed that LA is #2.

Its not. NYC then D.C.

[v5junior]

From the NLJ 350 Regional Report:
(The NLJ 350 is a list the 350 largest American law firms by headcount)

CHICAGO

NLJ 350 market rank by headcount: 3
NLJ 350 offices in this market: 94
Lawyers working at NLJ 350 firms: 7,700
Change in number of lawyers (2013-14): -0.6%
NLJ 350 lawyers working in this market: 5.2%
Average headcount of NLJ 350 offices in this market: 82

SAN FRANCISCO BAY AREA

NLJ 350 market rank by headcount: 4
NLJ 350 offices in this market: 201
Lawyers working at NLJ 350 firms: 7,057
Change in number of lawyers (2013-14): -0.7%
NLJ 350 lawyers working in this market: 4.8%
Average headcount of NLJ 350 offices in this market: 35

SOURCE: http://www.nationallawjournal.com/id=1202728676000

Could you post 1 and 2 here? I would never have guessed that LA is #2.

Its not. NYC then D.C.

Okay, that's what I thought. Was confused about this:

Chicago is now only slightly bigger than SF/SV, and smaller than LA.

[ballouttacontrol]

bay area has SHITLOADS of little rinkey dink outposts that it seems like every single freaking v100 puts down hoping to snag some big tech clients

[trebekismyhero]

bay area has SHITLOADS of little rinkey dink outposts that it seems like every single freaking v100 puts down hoping to snag some big tech clients

This seems to be very true. Bay Area overall is close to Chicago, but Chicago feels bigger because there is Sidley and Kirkland that regular have SA classes of at least 40 and often over 50 and several other firms in Chicago have classes over 20. I feel like the Bay Area doesn't have many firms with big classes or large total headcount for that matter.

[Npret]

bay area has SHITLOADS of little rinkey dink outposts that it seems like every single freaking v100 puts down hoping to snag some big tech clients

This seems to be very true. Bay Area overall is close to Chicago, but Chicago feels bigger because there is Sidley and Kirkland that regular have SA classes of at least 40 and often over 50 and several other firms in Chicago have classes over 20. I feel like the Bay Area doesn't have many firms with big classes or large total headcount for that matter.

That's why I suggested NALP which will show how many summers were hired by firm.

[rpupkin]

Its not. NYC then D.C.

Okay, that's what I thought. Was confused about this:

Chicago is now only slightly bigger than SF/SV, and smaller than LA.

I don't know where DC ranks, but what I wrote is correct--or at least it was correct as of three or four years ago.

[Wacked Wombat]

Its not. NYC then D.C.

Okay, that's what I thought. Was confused about this:

Chicago is now only slightly bigger than SF/SV, and smaller than LA.

I don't know where DC ranks, but what I wrote is correct--or at least it was correct as of three or four years ago.

According to the Source provided above (which again only looks at the top 350 by attorney size law firms); Also, the data is from mid-2015:
NY - 22,452
DC - 13,856
Chicago - 7,700
SF "Bay Area" - 7,057
LA - 6,407
Boston - 4,423
Philly - 3,713
ATL - 3,329
Houston - 3,031
Dallas - 3,029

[rpupkin]

http://abovethelaw.com/2015/02/state-of ... al-market/

Basically, I'm wrong, per the article: LA is about 4/5 the size of the Chicago market and the Bay Area is about 1/2 the size.

[Moneytrees]

Its not. NYC then D.C.

Okay, that's what I thought. Was confused about this:

Chicago is now only slightly bigger than SF/SV, and smaller than LA.

I don't know where DC ranks, but what I wrote is correct--or at least it was correct as of three or four years ago.

According to the Source provided above (which again only looks at the top 350 by attorney size law firms); Also, the data is from mid-2015:
NY - 22,452
DC - 13,856
Chicago - 7,700
SF "Bay Area" - 7,057
LA - 6,407
Boston - 4,423
Philly - 3,713
ATL - 3,329
Houston - 3,031
Dallas - 3,029

This is really surprising to me. Can't believe Chicago's market is almost half the size of DC's. Always figured it was NYC, Chicago/LA, and then DC/Bay Area

[foregetaboutdre]

Its not. NYC then D.C.

Okay, that's what I thought. Was confused about this:

Chicago is now only slightly bigger than SF/SV, and smaller than LA.

I don't know where DC ranks, but what I wrote is correct--or at least it was correct as of three or four years ago.

According to the Source provided above (which again only looks at the top 350 by attorney size law firms); Also, the data is from mid-2015:
NY - 22,452
DC - 13,856
Chicago - 7,700
SF "Bay Area" - 7,057
LA - 6,407
Boston - 4,423
Philly - 3,713
ATL - 3,329
Houston - 3,031
Dallas - 3,029

This is really surprising to me. Can't believe Chicago's market is almost half the size of DC's. Always figured it was NYC, Chicago/LA, and then DC/Bay Area

That stretch in the midwest has a lot of people. Wrapping around the lake in Indiana and then up to Milwaukee.