Would you take this in-house job? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Background: I'm a 3rd-4th year associate at a biglaw firm in a major secondary market, and have been offered the opportunity to go in-house at a well regarded startup client that I enjoy working with. I enjoy my practice area, colleagues, bill a very reasonable amount of hours and am doing very well at the firm. I am still learning, but my learning curve has leveled out a bit from when I started. I have the typical complaints about biglaw life (mostly around lack of control, lack of decision making role, large and bureaucratic, no interest in making partner). I have no interest in staying in biglaw or even law forever, but am not so miserable that I need to leave ASAP. Am mostly wondering whether this a good enough opportunity to leave for right now. I haven't done a lot of job searching before this opportunity came up and am not sure whether I should do a broader search and hold out for something "better" (I have a top UG/LS with desirable technical UG major, strong network of friends and practice area, so am cautiously optimistic about how a broader job search would go).

Here are the general details around the position, with my current thinking around pros and cons:
+ Mixed business and legal role - this is a huge plus to me and the biggest reason I am leaning towards taking it, as I may want to transition out of law and want more experience to be able to make an informed decision and transition
+ Opportunity to learn a different skill set
+ Opportunity to come in at a slighly more senior role than I might otherwise be able to get with people I've never worked with.
+ Very interesting business and industry
+ Very entrepreneurial role and organization
+ People are great, as I have been working with them closely for awhile now
+ A lot of flexibility to travel and work remotely (this is very important to me and something I currently enjoy at my biglaw firm)
+ The hours are better but busier than 9-5. However, the work is much more interesting. I'm not looking for 9-5 and don't mind working more if I'm engaged at work.

- I haven't done a full job search and there could be other roles I find more interesting.
- I think taking this role could commit me to a certain industry. I like this industry a lot, but at the same time there are also other industries I am interested in and not sure if I am ready to be seen as a "___" industry person.
- I would like to move to a different city so not sure if it's a good idea to take a new position in the current city. I am willing to stay for 2 years but probably not more than that. However, I think there is enough "brand value" in working for this startup and my previous background that I could relocate easily.
- All-in comp excluding equity is around $180K. From other in-house recruiters, I know I can get around $250-$300K all-in at other more established companies. I will probably not stay long enough for equity to matter due to the previous reason. I am a little bummed about the comp numbers but at the same time, I can live on much less than this.

What would you do? Thanks!

[kellyfrost]

I would be skeptical you could find a $250-300k job in house right now, in a month, or even a year. A recruiter told you this? Isn't it their job to peak your interest? Isn't that how they get paid?

Also, if your desire to relocate is stronger and means more to you than you current position or offer, then why wait? You aren't committed so why not move now? Go find that $300k in house gig that is at your disposal.

[h2go]

I would be skeptical you could find a $250-300k job in house right now, in a month, or even a year.

In-house compensation for midlevels is about this at Bay Area tech companies. Salary $180-200K, 10-20% bonus and 60-100K in RSUs.

[JenDarby]

I would be skeptical you could find a $250-300k job in house right now, in a month, or even a year.

In-house compensation for midlevels is about this at Bay Area tech companies. Salary $180-200K, 10-20% bonus and 60-100K in RSUs.

kelly didn't say he was skeptical the jobs exists, he said that he was skeptical OP could get the job

[Anonymous User]

I would be skeptical you could find a $250-300k job in house right now, in a month, or even a year. A recruiter told you this? Isn't it their job to peak your interest? Isn't that how they get paid?

Also, if your desire to relocate is stronger and means more to you than you current position or offer, then why wait? You aren't committed so why not move now? Go find that $300k in house gig that is at your disposal.

On why I haven't moved yet: It would be better for my spouse to move in 1-2 years so I haven't been very focused on trying to move immediately. My plan before the startup job came up was to stay at the firm but keep an eye out for interesting opportunities in the target city, and then move directly from firm to position in target city in 1-2 years.The alternative now would be to work for the startup for the next 2 years instead. I could move immediately, and maybe I should explore this, but it wouldn't be as ideal for my personal life (we would need to do a period of long-distance).

On comp: The 250-300K numbers include equity and bonus along the lines of what h2go noted. The recruiters work in-house at these companies, so I wouldn't think they would misrepresent the comp range. I didn't mean to come across as flippant in thinking a job like this is easy to get, and agree I would need to put in a lot of legwork and time to do a full job search and interview processes. It just seems possible given where others from my firm have exited and my general practice area (CS background/tech trans). However, these numbers are for purely legal positions at established tech companies (where maybe I could eventually move into more of a business role). I think the numbers would likely be lower for business roles at smaller companies, so maybe I should just make the move now.

So maybe the options are between:

1. Stay at my firm and look for legal in-house jobs over the next 1-2 years in larger companies in the target city, then try to lateral to a business role after a few more years of legal. This option would maximize comp and give me more time to figure out my life, but not sure if it's the most straight-forward path to my goal of ending up in a business or mixed business/legal role at an early-stage to midsized tech company.
2. Stay at my firm and network hard for business role or mixed business/legal jobs in the target city. I think the comp numbers would be lower (with very variable equity comp vs. RSUs) if I manage to move to a business role where I have less directly applicable experience, though I could count equity as a factor for startups in the target city since I would be more likely to stick around for the vesting. It also sounds much harder to find a position like this directly from biglaw, especially since I am not currently located in the target city.
3. Move to the startup now for the interesting mixed business/legal experience, look for business role jobs in target city after having had two years of business/legal in-house experience (vs. two additional years of biglaw), negotiate up comp/equity for the next position in two years.

[BayCat24]

I would be skeptical you could find a $250-300k job in house right now, in a month, or even a year.

In-house compensation for midlevels is about this at Bay Area tech companies. Salary $180-200K, 10-20% bonus and 60-100K in RSUs.

I would expect this to be relatively rare and limited to those with experience at WSGR, Cooley, Fenwick?

[Anonymous User]

I've seen IP litigators at places like Keker exit to those kinds of numbers also.

[JenDarby]

I've seen IP litigators at places like Keker exit to those kinds of numbers also.

great use of anon

I think the point was just that qualified associates/applicants far outweigh available positions

I work in-house and we are constantly spammed with unsolicited resumes from very qualified people, when there's actually a position open you could drown in the qualified resumes

[h2go]

I would be skeptical you could find a $250-300k job in house right now, in a month, or even a year.

In-house compensation for midlevels is about this at Bay Area tech companies. Salary $180-200K, 10-20% bonus and 60-100K in RSUs.

I would expect this to be relatively rare and limited to those with experience at WSGR, Cooley, Fenwick?

I suspect it would be hard to get if you practiced elsewhere, but experience at most biglaw firms with sizable Bay Area practices (e.g. Gunderson, Orrick, Goodwin, etc.) is fine. Some smaller satellite offices (e.g. Gibson Dunn/Davis Polk/SC) also have good exits into the larger tech companies (e.g. Facebook, Apple, etc.). It can be fairly easy to land in house positions without a bump down in pay depending on practice area (namely, tech transactions).

[kellyfrost]

Two reasons for my post.

1. OP doesn't sound committed. He/she isn't committed to their current job. Isn't committed to practicing law. Isn't committed to the city they are living in. Isn't even committed to this in house gig beyond a couple of years. OP seemingly isn't committed to anything. Therefore, I don't think this in house gig is in OP's best interests.

2. OP severely underestimates the job market and opportunities for in house counsel in that he thinks he can waltz into a company, get a job on the spot, and make $300k a year. Keep in mind, OP isn't committed, to anything!

I think OP solidified their position when they said something along the lines of not being at the job long enough for any equity awards toatter. That's sufficient evidence OP isn't committed. The point of equity awards are award a long term employee base upon the performance of the company over time. They are commonly referred to as "golden handcuffs" and rightfully so.

[Anonymous User]

Have you met with anyone you'll be working with at the start up? Also, you should be careful with startups. I've had friends who went inhouse to startups (well funded ones) and hated their jobs there. The companies are always worried about running out of money and the job can be quite stressful. But on the flip side, you learn a lot. And also some of the startups my friends worked at got bought and they had to scramble to find another in house job.

[nealric]

I think my biggest concern would be for the future of the company. Most startups eventually fail or get acquired- either one could leave you jobless at just the wrong time. That said, startups can also carry great rewards if they turn out successful. Make sure you are REALLY excited about the company itself- not just the role.

[zot1]

If you're planning to leave the city soon, I would just start looking for in-house counsel jobs in the city you're trying to move to.

[Anonymous User]

OP here, just wanted to give an update and thank everyone for the constructive advice. I spent the past two weeks doing more intensive interviewing/job searching, and got an additional offer in the target city for around 280K incl. equity at a large tech co and a few other things in the pipeline.

However, I decided to take the startup offer because of the smaller team/bigger impact and ability to transition into a pure business role, which after some soul searching I realized was a big priority to me. Also, my family is not quite ready to make the move to the target city yet. Using this new offer as leverage, the startup also bumped up my title and raised the offer to around 220K (base + bonus), with opportunity for additional increases over time. I will probably start looking for another job in 2 years in target city, but think this experience will be very valuable in the meantime and help me get a future role that is more aligned with my potentially non-legal interests.

As for those who were concerned about the stability of the start-up, I hear you generally but don't think it's a concern for this particular company, at least over the next few years. I fudged the details a little bit for anonymity, but one of the founders previously started a company with a unicorn exit, and can probably bankroll this for awhile.

Also, after having had more time to process, realized that the comp decrease won't have a huge impact on my life, and I'm really looking forward to this change/unexpected exit from biglaw! Thanks everyone.

[Mad Hatter]

Congrats man.