Hating Biglaw - Please Help Forum

[Johann]

If you got 100k units that aren't decrepit shitholes, you clearly live in a very low CoL area. With a combined income of 250k, the cards are pretty heavily stacked in your favor. Not everyone is in those circumstances.

You also mention you only know about the properties through your husband. Opportunities like that don't come at all for many other people.

Biglaw is full of miserable people too afraid to do anything else. No surprise half this thread is people picking apart ways to make money on the side.

*I'm Anon above this post*
I don't agree with this. It's very hard/intimidating to sacrifice the little time you have to research and find and tend to something on the side. Pnj brought up a good point when he said people are worried about putting in the money that's really necessary to get a return. Lawyers as a group are often risk averse, and putting in the time can hurt your day job and losing money on top of that would hurt and make you feel more trapped. I like being a lawyer but I knew it would work with my goals going in. It would be way harder to find out I like real estate now that I'm employed. I do think picking apart every idea as "no way that could ever work for me" is unhelpful as it can block finding a good opportunity, but I do understand the impulse. I hear of people winning big in other businesses and my first response is usually feeling a bit jealous then thinking well they just got super lucky. After that impulse subsides I focus on why real estate fits me and my goals and go back to working on those. I just think people who ARE unhappy should put in some time, even when precious little is available, to find a way of doing something to help so they can explore better employment for themselves.

Biglaw is full of miserable people too afraid to do anything else. No surprise half this thread is people picking apart ways to make money on the side.

Biglaw may be full of miserable people who are not inclined to pursue another career, but telling people who spent years of their lives to become lawyers that the real trick is to just live frugally and become a landlord is, at the very least, super narrow and not much different than holding a Holiday Inn conference room seminar.

The whole "big law or bust" crowd on this forum, which mostly includes people who choke on their own anecdotal experience living on the coasts or other HCOL areas, is the biggest running joke on this forum. They simply can't imagine another career path or having the time to pursue other income opportunities on the side.

Most attorneys I graduated with that aren't doing big law are doing great. In fact, I'd say they are doing better than the 4-5 people I know working in big law. Just to provide some examples in addition to the anon-landlord poster to oppose the big law crowd:

1. I have a friend who went to Cleveland State, works at a small SSI/workers' comp firm, and makes $60k a year. Her husband makes about $50k working for ODOT (Department of Transportation). They had significant student loan debt, but saved a bunch and bought four rental properties in Ashtabula for a TOTAL of $180k. They now earn about $3,000/month in rental income. They will probably buy another couple rentals and be totally financially independent within 3-4 years.

2. I have another friend who went to Cleveland State for a JD-MBA and went the accounting direction. He does taxes 8 weeks a year and makes about 35k doing it (granted he works 14 hours/6 days a week during this time). He also owns five rental properties (four down in Youngstown, one in Columbus) that generate about $2,200 in monthly income. He will stop having to do taxes within two years tops.

3. Me personally: went to Ohio State, landed a job at a small firm in NE Ohio. I make $50k. Fiancee makes $62k. Our total monthly expenses are about $2,400/month (that includes my loans). We could get it down to $2,100 but I'm not an insane frugal blogger using towels to wipe my ass. Point is that we are on pace to save $40k this year, and we could have done better, but we should be financially independent by 42 or so.

The other landlord posters in this thread seem to have similar circumstances, similar financial attitudes, and similar views towards making money in ways other than practicing law. Being frugal is not the answer to everything, but having low fixed costs and a job that doesn't eat your entire life is in itself leverage.

But hey, YOU NEED TO GO TO A T14 AND YOU NEED TO DO BIG LAW AND YOU CAN'T GET OUT BECAUSE YOU NEED TO PAY OFF YOUR LOANS!!! AHHHH!!!

This forum never gets old.

crushed this answer. you are my proudest prodigy and its great to see you took my theory insight to lap me many times over in real world practice. keep it up man!

[timbs4339]

Yeah I read Rich Dad Poor Dad too.

[babylawyer101]

Hi all. I am 4 months into biglaw at a V10 and pretty much miserable. Even though I'd like to think I knew what I was getting into it has been worse than I expected. And, I haven't even worked an unreasonable amount - far less than some of my peers, just under 200 billable hours each month.

It is probably just me and my personality. I think I am just a bad fit for this type of environment - I like my colleagues a lot (for the most part) and some of the work is interesting. But I have a family I'm not spending much time with and deeply miss having some semblance of balance in my life. I loved law school but practice is obviously nothing like that.

Does anyone have any advice for me on escaping or improving my experience? I figured I can't be the only one who does or has felt this way.

I know I am light on details here but anything would be appreciated. I went to a TTT school but did very well and I had a few years of work experience in marketing before law school.

Thanks in advance.

Any update on where you ended up?

Thanks

[JusticeSquee]

If you got 100k units that aren't decrepit shitholes, you clearly live in a very low CoL area. With a combined income of 250k, the cards are pretty heavily stacked in your favor. Not everyone is in those circumstances.

You also mention you only know about the properties through your husband. Opportunities like that don't come at all for many other people.

Biglaw is full of miserable people too afraid to do anything else. No surprise half this thread is people picking apart ways to make money on the side.

*I'm Anon above this post*
I don't agree with this. It's very hard/intimidating to sacrifice the little time you have to research and find and tend to something on the side. Pnj brought up a good point when he said people are worried about putting in the money that's really necessary to get a return. Lawyers as a group are often risk averse, and putting in the time can hurt your day job and losing money on top of that would hurt and make you feel more trapped. I like being a lawyer but I knew it would work with my goals going in. It would be way harder to find out I like real estate now that I'm employed. I do think picking apart every idea as "no way that could ever work for me" is unhelpful as it can block finding a good opportunity, but I do understand the impulse. I hear of people winning big in other businesses and my first response is usually feeling a bit jealous then thinking well they just got super lucky. After that impulse subsides I focus on why real estate fits me and my goals and go back to working on those. I just think people who ARE unhappy should put in some time, even when precious little is available, to find a way of doing something to help so they can explore better employment for themselves.

Biglaw is full of miserable people too afraid to do anything else. No surprise half this thread is people picking apart ways to make money on the side.

Biglaw may be full of miserable people who are not inclined to pursue another career, but telling people who spent years of their lives to become lawyers that the real trick is to just live frugally and become a landlord is, at the very least, super narrow and not much different than holding a Holiday Inn conference room seminar.

The whole "big law or bust" crowd on this forum, which mostly includes people who choke on their own anecdotal experience living on the coasts or other HCOL areas, is the biggest running joke on this forum. They simply can't imagine another career path or having the time to pursue other income opportunities on the side.

Most attorneys I graduated with that aren't doing big law are doing great. In fact, I'd say they are doing better than the 4-5 people I know working in big law. Just to provide some examples in addition to the anon-landlord poster to oppose the big law crowd:

1. I have a friend who went to Cleveland State, works at a small SSI/workers' comp firm, and makes $60k a year. Her husband makes about $50k working for ODOT (Department of Transportation). They had significant student loan debt, but saved a bunch and bought four rental properties in Ashtabula for a TOTAL of $180k. They now earn about $3,000/month in rental income. They will probably buy another couple rentals and be totally financially independent within 3-4 years.

2. I have another friend who went to Cleveland State for a JD-MBA and went the accounting direction. He does taxes 8 weeks a year and makes about 35k doing it (granted he works 14 hours/6 days a week during this time). He also owns five rental properties (four down in Youngstown, one in Columbus) that generate about $2,200 in monthly income. He will stop having to do taxes within two years tops.

3. Me personally: went to Ohio State, landed a job at a small firm in NE Ohio. I make $50k. Fiancee makes $62k. Our total monthly expenses are about $2,400/month (that includes my loans). We could get it down to $2,100 but I'm not an insane frugal blogger using towels to wipe my ass. Point is that we are on pace to save $40k this year, and we could have done better, but we should be financially independent by 42 or so.

The other landlord posters in this thread seem to have similar circumstances, similar financial attitudes, and similar views towards making money in ways other than practicing law. Being frugal is not the answer to everything, but having low fixed costs and a job that doesn't eat your entire life is in itself leverage.

But hey, YOU NEED TO GO TO A T14 AND YOU NEED TO DO BIG LAW AND YOU CAN'T GET OUT BECAUSE YOU NEED TO PAY OFF YOUR LOANS!!! AHHHH!!!

This forum never gets old.

crushed this answer. you are my proudest prodigy and its great to see you took my theory insight to lap me many times over in real world practice. keep it up man!

lol is this serious? Are those supposed to be good outcomes? lmao, have fun in Ohio.

[nixy]

Nothing wrong with Ohio. Those are perfectly fine outcomes depending on your lifestyle and goals and if you want to be a landlord rather than a lawyer.

[JusticeSquee]

Nothing wrong with Ohio. Those are perfectly fine outcomes depending on your lifestyle and goals and if you want to be a landlord rather than a lawyer.

lol. fuck landlords.

[nealric]

Nothing wrong with Ohio. Those are perfectly fine outcomes depending on your lifestyle and goals and if you want to be a landlord rather than a lawyer.

Sure, but I suspect a lot of people who quote $XXX in rental "income" are actually reporting their rental revenue. Or, they quote the amount of rent they recieve in excess of their mortgage payments, but ignore taxes/insurance/maintenance/broker fees. Kind of like day traders who brag about the 300% return they made on Tesla but conveniently forget to mention their losing bets.

Besides, if your primary passion is real estate, why are you going to law school at all? There are easier ways to get into that business.

There's nothing inherently wrong with going to law school in the midwest and taking a job without a big salary. That outcome is a lot more common than biglaw anyways. But I can't imagine most people would be all that happy with that outcome when coupled with six figures of law school debt. Planning on some side gig to overcome that (be it real estate, day trading, or some techy venture) seems to be doing things backwards.

[nixy]

Oh, personally, I agree. I don’t want to be a landlord and I don’t think you have to go to law school to be one. I just don’t agree with dissing people for 1) being happy with outcomes you don’t want and 2) being happy living in Ohio. In any case, I don’t think the original goal of the thread was to say that everyone should follow this kind of path, just that lots of people still end up in a place where they’re happy even if it’s not what this forum
conventionally defines as success.

[Anonymous User]

I have four rental properties and biglaw. I’m a fifth year. I would have been better off investing in my 401k and stocks rather than the money I spent on real estate. I had a few things go badly, but it isn’t hard to burn money there too.

With that said, I’d only be slightly better off. But I’d also have way less stress. And those numbers are bs, no way anyone is cash flowing 3k off 4 properties worth 180k or whatever. At the very best, maybe 2k, if absolutely nothing goes wrong and you bought the best investment property ever under the 2% rule. That rarely happens.

Being a landlord is okay. I think every lawyer should buy a rental property. But it’s definitely not easy.

[Anonymous User]

I have four rental properties and biglaw. I’m a fifth year. I would have been better off investing in my 401k and stocks rather than the money I spent on real estate. I had a few things go badly, but it isn’t hard to burn money there too.

With that said, I’d only be slightly better off. But I’d also have way less stress. And those numbers are bs, no way anyone is cash flowing 3k off 4 properties worth 180k or whatever. At the very best, maybe 2k, if absolutely nothing goes wrong and you bought the best investment property ever under the 2% rule. That rarely happens.

Being a landlord is okay. I think every lawyer should buy a rental property. But it’s definitely not easy.

For what it's worth, I used to work with a guy who was fired in part because he was spending so much time managing his rental properties. He had a lot of properties (most of them were bought as foreclosures and renovated), which demanded a lot of time and attention to the point that he was turning down work-related stuff to go address them. Nothing wrong with real estate if you invest wisely, but managing it can be a part time job and a big time suck.

[Sackboy]

I have four rental properties and biglaw. I’m a fifth year. I would have been better off investing in my 401k and stocks rather than the money I spent on real estate. I had a few things go badly, but it isn’t hard to burn money there too.

With that said, I’d only be slightly better off. But I’d also have way less stress. And those numbers are bs, no way anyone is cash flowing 3k off 4 properties worth 180k or whatever. At the very best, maybe 2k, if absolutely nothing goes wrong and you bought the best investment property ever under the 2% rule. That rarely happens.

Being a landlord is okay. I think every lawyer should buy a rental property. But it’s definitely not easy.

My parents grabbed properties from between $30-$40k and rent them out for $450-$600/mo. With OP's numbers, that'd be 4-6 properties with $1,800-$3,600/mo. total. So, it's possible. But, that's before mortgage payments, taxes, maintenance, etc. My parents always said it really wasn't a great financial investment and that they mostly did it as a hobby. They were also great landlords in a world filled with a lot of shitty ones, and I know that hurt their ROI. Even with the best screening, you will have tenants who leave the place messed up, skip out on rent, etc. The way I see people make a lot of money in the business is through insane leverage and lots of properties. That, of course, comes with the risk of leverage. Lots of those folks got completely WIPED during this pandemic.