ABQ, New mexico Forum

[Anonymous User]

any info on the legal market here? How about on the city?

Wife got offered a job here and it seems pretty chill. Good weather and cheap cost of living. Seems to be a need for legal aid/ pubic defender work. I want to do criminal defense or plaintiffs civ lit.

[Hutz_and_Goodman]

Better Call Saul

[Anonymous User]

ABQ has a need for attorneys because the one law school in the state just doesn't graduate enough people to fill the state's needs. I believe you can look at postings in the BYU job bank.

[Anonymous User]

Beautiful town that's growing. Isolated and no big law other than regional branch offices from places like Quarles & Brady and I think Snell & Wilmer.

It's the kind of town where the people who live there were born and educated there.

Not much of an economy, so that limits the legal work you could do, but there is a need for lawyers.

I'm in Phoenix and I'm a little jealous of you, I'd jump on ABQ if a job came my way.

[andythefir]

I'm from ABQ and know the market well from scheming to get there. There are only a few big-ish firms, Rodey, Modrall, Sutin, maybe BTB. They take 2-3 summers every year, Rodey hires maybe 1 every 5 years, Modrall hires way more. Rodey does most of its hiring through laterals.

The most important thing to know about the ABQ legal market is that almost all of it is a personality cult of UNM law. I was born there, went to high school there, got my undergrad from UNM, but since I left the state (top a top 25 school), I was grilled over my ties over and over and over and over. One of the other summers was from the deep south, went to UNM law, and never got grilled once. One NM COA judge listed on his clerkships page that he flatly doesn't consider applicants who didn't go to UNM law.

The DA's office in town (the 2nd) pays ADAs nothing (confirm on the sunshine portal-they get $43ish for many years; a guy I know is 5 years out and makes $48) because they know UNM law grads will flatly not consider leaving ABQ. Drive around downtown; dozens if not hundreds of converted houses with little 1-2 person firms who drive each other's prices down. Modrall/Rodey pay $70-80 for 1st years, but billable expectations are only 1800 or so. In other words, across the board pay is low, but lifestyle will be great. Santa Fe is commuting distance, but the market forces are the same.

All that said, UNM had a catastrophically bad showing in the most recent bar. I am hopeful that the UNM mafia will lose some of its power because at some point the employers have to realize objective ability matters more than everyone having the same civ pro professor.

[andythefir]

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=161142

This thread has a ton of really good information, too.

[Anonymous User]

I'm from ABQ and know the market well from scheming to get there. There are only a few big-ish firms, Rodey, Modrall, Sutin, maybe BTB. They take 2-3 summers every year, Rodey hires maybe 1 every 5 years, Modrall hires way more. Rodey does most of its hiring through laterals.

The most important thing to know about the ABQ legal market is that almost all of it is a personality cult of UNM law. I was born there, went to high school there, got my undergrad from UNM, but since I left the state (top a top 25 school), I was grilled over my ties over and over and over and over. One of the other summers was from the deep south, went to UNM law, and never got grilled once. One NM COA judge listed on his clerkships page that he flatly doesn't consider applicants who didn't go to UNM law.

The DA's office in town (the 2nd) pays ADAs nothing (confirm on the sunshine portal-they get $43ish for many years; a guy I know is 5 years out and makes $48) because they know UNM law grads will flatly not consider leaving ABQ. Drive around downtown; dozens if not hundreds of converted houses with little 1-2 person firms who drive each other's prices down. Modrall/Rodey pay $70-80 for 1st years, but billable expectations are only 1800 or so. In other words, across the board pay is low, but lifestyle will be great. Santa Fe is commuting distance, but the market forces are the same.

All that said, UNM had a catastrophically bad showing in the most recent bar. I am hopeful that the UNM mafia will lose some of its power because at some point the employers have to realize objective ability matters more than everyone having the same civ pro professor.

Bumping this thread with hopes of some user whose familiar with the market to chime in.

Are there any significant differences between Modrall, Rodey, and Sutin? Which firm handles which type of cases, is regarded to more highly within the market, etc. Are they true peers?

[CanadianWolf]

FWIW: New Mexico is referred to as:

The Land of Entrapment

Fine for grads of UNM law school (because they have no other choice), Texas Tech, & St. Mary's.

Possibly the most entrenched good old boys network in the continental US.

[Anonymous User]

I would do ABQ with a remote big law gig in a heart beat.

[andythefir]

I’d say Modrall and Rodey are peers, but they have very different business models. Modrall recruits like firms everywhere (summers, clerks), where Rodey seems to wait for someone to emerge as an expert elsewhere then hire them. Neither pay anywhere near what they should given the billable requirements. I think Sutin and Butt, Thornton, and Bayer are well regarded but not quite at the same level. The problem is the salaries don’t make sense, working Jones Day hours for fed government salaries is dumb.

[Anonymous User]

I’d say Modrall and Rodey are peers, but they have very different business models. Modrall recruits like firms everywhere (summers, clerks), where Rodey seems to wait for someone to emerge as an expert elsewhere then hire them. Neither pay anywhere near what they should given the billable requirements. I think Sutin and Butt, Thornton, and Bayer are well regarded but not quite at the same level. The problem is the salaries don’t make sense, working Jones Day hours for fed government salaries is dumb.

I’ve heard billable requirement for these firms are around 1800. This was a few years back. That doesn’t seem too bad if that’s still true.

Do you know if BTB, Modrall, Sutin, and Rodey pay the same? I also heard Hinkle Shanor is one of the major players - not sure if true.

[andythefir]

I was a summer associate at Modrall/Rodey 10ish years ago, and at the time they paid similarly. It wouldn’t surprise me if wages are getting pushed up, Modrall posted in both the bar bulletin and LinkedIn, which I don’t think I’ve ever seen before.

[Anonymous User]

I would do ABQ with a remote big law gig in a heart beat.

From Albuquerque originally (actually there right now), and I agree 100% with this sentiment. Albuquerque is amazing, but unfortunately the local law jobs (that I have found anyway) are not. My actual working experience in the state though was years ago and limited to a split summer 1L year between one of the mentioned firms here and the US Attorney, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

[Anonymous User]

I would do ABQ with a remote big law gig in a heart beat.

From Albuquerque originally (actually there right now), and I agree 100% with this sentiment. Albuquerque is amazing, but unfortunately the local law jobs (that I have found anyway) are not. My actual working experience in the state though was years ago and limited to a split summer 1L year between one of the mentioned firms here and the US Attorney, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

What did you dislike about the firm job? I’m assuming the pay, which I believe is about 80k for first years? That’s not terrible for ABQ COL, but I just wonder how much it increases by year.

[Anonymous User]

I would do ABQ with a remote big law gig in a heart beat.

From Albuquerque originally (actually there right now), and I agree 100% with this sentiment. Albuquerque is amazing, but unfortunately the local law jobs (that I have found anyway) are not. My actual working experience in the state though was years ago and limited to a split summer 1L year between one of the mentioned firms here and the US Attorney, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

What did you dislike about the firm job? I’m assuming the pay, which I believe is about 80k for first years? That’s not terrible for ABQ COL, but I just wonder how much it increases by year.

It wasn't just the pay, though that wasn't great. It was also the issues I was working on. I guess part of it is I was lit, but like IP. That's just not really a thing in New Mexico. There is a lot of high tech development, but most of the real cutting edge stuff is with the labs (Los Alamos and Sandia), so the IP goes to the government. A lot of the non criminal litigation ends up (at least when I was there) involving mineral rights, water rights, and Native American law. Those can be suprisingly complex issues, but it just wasn't my thing.

A bigger issue though was the culture in the legal field. I would agree with some other posters that it is a bit... standoffish. Even being from New Mexico, since I went to a T14 and not UNM, I didn't really feel welcome. Which is strange because I never got that feeling in any other industry I was exposed to in New Mexico, either through my own work or family/friends.

[CanadianWolf]

I would do ABQ with a remote big law gig in a heart beat.

From Albuquerque originally (actually there right now), and I agree 100% with this sentiment. Albuquerque is amazing, but unfortunately the local law jobs (that I have found anyway) are not. My actual working experience in the state though was years ago and limited to a split summer 1L year between one of the mentioned firms here and the US Attorney, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

What did you dislike about the firm job? I’m assuming the pay, which I believe is about 80k for first years? That’s not terrible for ABQ COL, but I just wonder how much it increases by year.

It wasn't just the pay, though that wasn't great. It was also the issues I was working on. I guess part of it is I was lit, but like IP. That's just not really a thing in New Mexico. There is a lot of high tech development, but most of the real cutting edge stuff is with the labs (Los Alamos and Sandia), so the IP goes to the government. A lot of the non criminal litigation ends up (at least when I was there) involving mineral rights, water rights, and Native American law. Those can be suprisingly complex issues, but it just wasn't my thing.

A bigger issue though was the culture in the legal field. I would agree with some other posters that it is a bit... standoffish. Even being from New Mexico, since I went to a T14 and not UNM, I didn't really feel welcome. Which is strange because I never got that feeling in any other industry I was exposed to in New Mexico, either through my own work or family/friends.

What is so great or attractive about Albuquerque, New Mexico ?

(As a side comment: My understanding is that young, educated individuals in their 20s & 30s have been leaving Santa Fe, NM for the past few decades.)

[nixy]

ABQ certainly has its issues, but the climate and landscape are amazing, the food is great, and it’s got a low cost of living. If you’re an outdoor sports kind of person it’s amazing. It’s also a university town if you like that vibe.

The people are generally really nice, but I do think it’s insular, which can be great if you have an in to the community, and less great if you don’t (or just don’t like the community).

Santa Fe is much prettier but is really small and even more insular, so I’m not surprised young people leave. I’m told that getting any kind of decent job depends on having pretty deep connections and it’s not a very diverse economy.

It’s not for everyone, but I still really like New Mexico (well, I haven’t been down Las Cruces way, which I’m told is more west Texas).

[Anonymous User]

I would do ABQ with a remote big law gig in a heart beat.

From Albuquerque originally (actually there right now), and I agree 100% with this sentiment. Albuquerque is amazing, but unfortunately the local law jobs (that I have found anyway) are not. My actual working experience in the state though was years ago and limited to a split summer 1L year between one of the mentioned firms here and the US Attorney, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

What did you dislike about the firm job? I’m assuming the pay, which I believe is about 80k for first years? That’s not terrible for ABQ COL, but I just wonder how much it increases by year.

It wasn't just the pay, though that wasn't great. It was also the issues I was working on. I guess part of it is I was lit, but like IP. That's just not really a thing in New Mexico. There is a lot of high tech development, but most of the real cutting edge stuff is with the labs (Los Alamos and Sandia), so the IP goes to the government. A lot of the non criminal litigation ends up (at least when I was there) involving mineral rights, water rights, and Native American law. Those can be suprisingly complex issues, but it just wasn't my thing.

A bigger issue though was the culture in the legal field. I would agree with some other posters that it is a bit... standoffish. Even being from New Mexico, since I went to a T14 and not UNM, I didn't really feel welcome. Which is strange because I never got that feeling in any other industry I was exposed to in New Mexico, either through my own work or family/friends.

What is so great or attractive about Albuquerque, New Mexico ?

(As a side comment: My understanding is that young, educated individuals in their 20s & 30s have been leaving Santa Fe, NM for the past few decades.)

Albuquerque? What isn't? My dad was in the Navy growing up, and we lived all over the place, so I'm not just saying that because it's all I knew growing up, I really love it.

Albuquerque's food is phenomenal. New Mexico has a cuisine that is all its own, it's not exactly Mexican (and I would contend its better). But even beyond that, I'd say the food rivals that of much larger cities for other cusines as well.

Albuquerque, and New Mexico in general, has some of the best weather and nature in the country. People think of it as a desert and picture something like Phoenix, but that's completely wrong. It's high desert, mountainous, and has more in common with Flagstaff or Colorado. There are still lots of trees and green, just no water sucking ground covers. Tons of fantastic trails and backpacking, if that is your thing--there is a reason Philmont is in the state. Plus Albuquerque itself gets some unique benefits from where it sits at the bottom of the Rockies. It usually doesn't get above the low 90s in the summer, which drops like a rock in the shade with the humidity. And if you hate mosquitos, they don't really exist (huge plus in my book).

It also has a lot of unique cultural events. The Balloon Fiesta is the big one most people from outside of the state have heard of (largest international gathering of hot air balloons, happens in the fall). That is here because of a weather phenomenon known as the box, which makes the prevailing winds very predictable at specific altitudes most of the year. So even outside of the Fiesta, you still see balloonists most mornings in the fall and spring. Santa Fe has the Burning of Zozobra, and the luminarias in old town at Christmas are not something you see much outside of New Mexico. Plus, weird art instalations like Meow Wolf in Santa Fe (which I know is expanding outside the state, but there is a reason it started in Santa Fe).

I could go on (Carlsbad and White Sands in the south, fantastic skiing in NM and Southern Colorado, well preserved historical and archaeological sites like Bandelier, fantastic birding because everything migrates through or winters there, including cranes in the Bosque del Apache). I think the only negative would be, well, jobs. Getting good jobs in the area is hard, which is why 20 to 30 somethings (myself included) are leaving. But if you do have one you like, the area is really hard to beat, for at least a certain kind of person.

[andythefir]

I’d add that the whole bar comes to UNM from all over the state and doesn’t go back to where they’re from, so the ABQ market is a little oversaturated, which pushes wages down. Santa Fe is even worse re oversaturation. UNM also has a big culture of hyping civil plaintiff and criminal defense work in small firms, so there are some good hustles outside of those shops.

[CanadianWolf]

I would do ABQ with a remote big law gig in a heart beat.

From Albuquerque originally (actually there right now), and I agree 100% with this sentiment. Albuquerque is amazing, but unfortunately the local law jobs (that I have found anyway) are not. My actual working experience in the state though was years ago and limited to a split summer 1L year between one of the mentioned firms here and the US Attorney, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

What did you dislike about the firm job? I’m assuming the pay, which I believe is about 80k for first years? That’s not terrible for ABQ COL, but I just wonder how much it increases by year.

It wasn't just the pay, though that wasn't great. It was also the issues I was working on. I guess part of it is I was lit, but like IP. That's just not really a thing in New Mexico. There is a lot of high tech development, but most of the real cutting edge stuff is with the labs (Los Alamos and Sandia), so the IP goes to the government. A lot of the non criminal litigation ends up (at least when I was there) involving mineral rights, water rights, and Native American law. Those can be suprisingly complex issues, but it just wasn't my thing.

A bigger issue though was the culture in the legal field. I would agree with some other posters that it is a bit... standoffish. Even being from New Mexico, since I went to a T14 and not UNM, I didn't really feel welcome. Which is strange because I never got that feeling in any other industry I was exposed to in New Mexico, either through my own work or family/friends.

What is so great or attractive about Albuquerque, New Mexico ?

(As a side comment: My understanding is that young, educated individuals in their 20s & 30s have been leaving Santa Fe, NM for the past few decades.)

Albuquerque? What isn't? My dad was in the Navy growing up, and we lived all over the place, so I'm not just saying that because it's all I knew growing up, I really love it.

Albuquerque's food is phenomenal. New Mexico has a cuisine that is all its own, it's not exactly Mexican (and I would contend its better). But even beyond that, I'd say the food rivals that of much larger cities for other cusines as well.

Albuquerque, and New Mexico in general, has some of the best weather and nature in the country. People think of it as a desert and picture something like Phoenix, but that's completely wrong. It's high desert, mountainous, and has more in common with Flagstaff or Colorado. There are still lots of trees and green, just no water sucking ground covers. Tons of fantastic trails and backpacking, if that is your thing--there is a reason Philmont is in the state. Plus Albuquerque itself gets some unique benefits from where it sits at the bottom of the Rockies. It usually doesn't get above the low 90s in the summer, which drops like a rock in the shade with the humidity. And if you hate mosquitos, they don't really exist (huge plus in my book).

It also has a lot of unique cultural events. The Balloon Fiesta is the big one most people from outside of the state have heard of (largest international gathering of hot air balloons, happens in the fall). That is here because of a weather phenomenon known as the box, which makes the prevailing winds very predictable at specific altitudes most of the year. So even outside of the Fiesta, you still see balloonists most mornings in the fall and spring. Santa Fe has the Burning of Zozobra, and the luminarias in old town at Christmas are not something you see much outside of New Mexico. Plus, weird art instalations like Meow Wolf in Santa Fe (which I know is expanding outside the state, but there is a reason it started in Santa Fe).

I could go on (Carlsbad and White Sands in the south, fantastic skiing in NM and Southern Colorado, well preserved historical and archaeological sites like Bandelier, fantastic birding because everything migrates through or winters there, including cranes in the Bosque del Apache). I think the only negative would be, well, jobs. Getting good jobs in the area is hard, which is why 20 to 30 somethings (myself included) are leaving. But if you do have one you like, the area is really hard to beat, for at least a certain kind of person.

Thank you for responding. However, I do not think that Albuquerque is similar to Flagstaff, Arizona or to Colorado. My thought is that Albuquerque is much more similar to Tucson, Arizona than it is to Flagstaff or to Colorado cities.

My understanding is that Albuquerque has the strongest UV rays of any city in the world, but I do not know how the source defined "city".

Can you suggest any restaurants in Albuquerque ?

[Anonymous User]

I’ve lived in Colorado, ABQ, and Tucson, and I think ABQ is pretty different from Tucson. The weather in ABQ is significantly better and high desert ABQ is way more like Colorado (especially southern) and (maybe slightly less) Flagstaff than the Sonoran desert of Tucson. Not identical to those places, but more like them than like Tucson. The culture also just feels really different in the two places (Tucson and Arizona generally just feel much newer/open than NM.) ABQ might be a bit of a cross between Colorado and Arizona, but Tucson feels like a cross between ABQ and California.

[Anonymous User]

As a native New Mexican, I don’t think ABQ is like the parts of Colorado people typically think of when they think “Colorado” (Denver, Boulder, mountain towns). It feels more like Pueblo/Colorado Springs.

[Anonymous User]

Yeah, I should have said southern Colorado.

[Anonymous User]

A bit off topic but what are some good neighborhoods in ABQ to buy a house in?

[Anonymous User]

I would do ABQ with a remote big law gig in a heart beat.

From Albuquerque originally (actually there right now), and I agree 100% with this sentiment. Albuquerque is amazing, but unfortunately the local law jobs (that I have found anyway) are not. My actual working experience in the state though was years ago and limited to a split summer 1L year between one of the mentioned firms here and the US Attorney, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

What did you dislike about the firm job? I’m assuming the pay, which I believe is about 80k for first years? That’s not terrible for ABQ COL, but I just wonder how much it increases by year.

It wasn't just the pay, though that wasn't great. It was also the issues I was working on. I guess part of it is I was lit, but like IP. That's just not really a thing in New Mexico. There is a lot of high tech development, but most of the real cutting edge stuff is with the labs (Los Alamos and Sandia), so the IP goes to the government. A lot of the non criminal litigation ends up (at least when I was there) involving mineral rights, water rights, and Native American law. Those can be suprisingly complex issues, but it just wasn't my thing.

A bigger issue though was the culture in the legal field. I would agree with some other posters that it is a bit... standoffish. Even being from New Mexico, since I went to a T14 and not UNM, I didn't really feel welcome. Which is strange because I never got that feeling in any other industry I was exposed to in New Mexico, either through my own work or family/friends.

What is so great or attractive about Albuquerque, New Mexico ?

(As a side comment: My understanding is that young, educated individuals in their 20s & 30s have been leaving Santa Fe, NM for the past few decades.)

Albuquerque? What isn't? My dad was in the Navy growing up, and we lived all over the place, so I'm not just saying that because it's all I knew growing up, I really love it.

Albuquerque's food is phenomenal. New Mexico has a cuisine that is all its own, it's not exactly Mexican (and I would contend its better). But even beyond that, I'd say the food rivals that of much larger cities for other cusines as well.

Albuquerque, and New Mexico in general, has some of the best weather and nature in the country. People think of it as a desert and picture something like Phoenix, but that's completely wrong. It's high desert, mountainous, and has more in common with Flagstaff or Colorado. There are still lots of trees and green, just no water sucking ground covers. Tons of fantastic trails and backpacking, if that is your thing--there is a reason Philmont is in the state. Plus Albuquerque itself gets some unique benefits from where it sits at the bottom of the Rockies. It usually doesn't get above the low 90s in the summer, which drops like a rock in the shade with the humidity. And if you hate mosquitos, they don't really exist (huge plus in my book).

It also has a lot of unique cultural events. The Balloon Fiesta is the big one most people from outside of the state have heard of (largest international gathering of hot air balloons, happens in the fall). That is here because of a weather phenomenon known as the box, which makes the prevailing winds very predictable at specific altitudes most of the year. So even outside of the Fiesta, you still see balloonists most mornings in the fall and spring. Santa Fe has the Burning of Zozobra, and the luminarias in old town at Christmas are not something you see much outside of New Mexico. Plus, weird art instalations like Meow Wolf in Santa Fe (which I know is expanding outside the state, but there is a reason it started in Santa Fe).

I could go on (Carlsbad and White Sands in the south, fantastic skiing in NM and Southern Colorado, well preserved historical and archaeological sites like Bandelier, fantastic birding because everything migrates through or winters there, including cranes in the Bosque del Apache). I think the only negative would be, well, jobs. Getting good jobs in the area is hard, which is why 20 to 30 somethings (myself included) are leaving. But if you do have one you like, the area is really hard to beat, for at least a certain kind of person.

Thank you for responding. However, I do not think that Albuquerque is similar to Flagstaff, Arizona or to Colorado. My thought is that Albuquerque is much more similar to Tucson, Arizona than it is to Flagstaff or to Colorado cities.

My understanding is that Albuquerque has the strongest UV rays of any city in the world, but I do not know how the source defined "city".

Can you suggest any restaurants in Albuquerque ?

Been a while since I was there for more than holidays and the ballon fiesta, and when I go back I tend to gravitate toward more comfort food places, but some places I like are golden pride/frontier, the Range, El Pinto, flying star, Valencia’s/Ginos for pizza (was the pizza from Breaking bad actually). Blake’s is good but if you want a great chain that’s easy to find, Golden Pride is better. For anything fancier, I’d probably ask my sister for recommendations at this point as she still lives there.