just billed 70 hrs in patent pros Forum
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just billed 70 hrs in patent pros
Last week.. new personal record. I'm a first yr. But that fukin sucked there is no way I could do that too often
our billable req is only 1800 tho so at least theres that
our billable req is only 1800 tho so at least theres that
- ArtistOfManliness
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Re: just billed 70 hrs in patent pros
Cool story bro, tell it again.
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Re: just billed 70 hrs in patent pros
Yea? blow me cuzArtistOfManliness wrote:Cool story bro, tell it again.
- cron1834
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Re: just billed 70 hrs in patent pros
Well, he had a point, OP... do you have one?ballouttacontrol wrote:Yea? blow me cuzArtistOfManliness wrote:Cool story bro, tell it again.
- kellyfrost
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Re: just billed 70 hrs in patent pros
\ArtistOfManliness wrote:Cool story bro, tell it again.

Last edited by kellyfrost on Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: just billed 70 hrs in patent pros
that it sucked really hard. i'd probs quit if I had to do that regularlycron1834 wrote:Well, he had a point, OP... do you have one?ballouttacontrol wrote:Yea? blow me cuzArtistOfManliness wrote:Cool story bro, tell it again.
feel free to go back to ignore and go back to the other 500 threads about neurotic 2Ls choosing between V24 and V36 and whether they will get no offered for getting a B-
- elendinel
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Re: just billed 70 hrs in patent pros
That just seems like an extremely unremarkable thing to remark about, even for pros.
Not that I don't get the pain, but...*shrug*.
Not that I don't get the pain, but...*shrug*.
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Re: just billed 70 hrs in patent pros
Actually somewhat curious about this if you're still willing to share despite the other replies.
70 hours definitely seems like a lot to bill - what would you say your efficiency rate was on that? Were you able to bill 70 hours out of 70 in the office, or is there a bit of downtime in there? Is a high efficiency rate on your billing typical for you and others that you know who do patent pros? About how many hours a week do you find you're in the office / how long is your average day to stay on track with 1800?
Thanks in advance.
70 hours definitely seems like a lot to bill - what would you say your efficiency rate was on that? Were you able to bill 70 hours out of 70 in the office, or is there a bit of downtime in there? Is a high efficiency rate on your billing typical for you and others that you know who do patent pros? About how many hours a week do you find you're in the office / how long is your average day to stay on track with 1800?
Thanks in advance.
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Re: just billed 70 hrs in patent pros
idk it felt out of the ordinary for me bro. i don't think ppl here work those hrs that often but its hard to really tell since everyone is gone by 5:30 but work at home. is this common for u?elendinel wrote:That just seems like an extremely unremarkable thing to remark about, even for pros.
Not that I don't get the pain, but...*shrug*.
Last edited by ballouttacontrol on Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: just billed 70 hrs in patent pros
yea sure.,mecarey wrote:Actually somewhat curious about this if you're still willing to share despite the other replies.
70 hours definitely seems like a lot to bill - what would you say your efficiency rate was on that? Were you able to bill 70 hours out of 70 in the office, or is there a bit of downtime in there? Is a high efficiency rate on your billing typical for you and others that you know who do patent pros? About how many hours a week do you find you're in the office / how long is your average day to stay on track with 1800?
Thanks in advance.
what u mean by efficiency rate? Like, personally, my hours in the office? Or what will my efficiency ultimately be after write offs on the bill? If the former, I work pretty consistently 9-5, sometimes take an hour for lunch out of the office. Maybe lose a half hour to an hour here or there over the course of the day for stuff like watching football highlights from yesterday or wtv. When it comes to crunch time up on due dates I'm roughly 100% efficient. if you meant the latter, I frankly have no idea, as a 1st year, my time does get written down sometimes but I don't feel I really have any control over that. I don't feel like I typically bill that much more than expected of me, but the budgets can be pretty low sometimes and everyone from partners to 1st years takes haircuts on the bill sometimes (or so we're told)
w/r/t It also depends on my assignments. If I'm drafting a fresh application dealing with difficult subject matter I'm definitely taking a short break maybe every hour. That shit makes my head hurt. Wayyyy more mentally taxing than when I used to do lit.
Being efficient on the bill is important, patent pros budgets are not high so bloated bills will be quickly noticed. But in terms of how efficient u are in the office it definitely varies between people. Some ppl are robots and can grind it out, some ppl take more coffee breaks.
Personally, me on the 70 hr week was (Mon,Tue,W,Th,F,Sat): 8.1, 10.7, 6.4, 15, 12.2, 14.2, and off Sunday. In practice, Mon and Weds were pretty much 9-5ish, maybe a little longer on Monday. Weds was like 9-9pm. Thurs was about 8am-3am but left the office to have dinner with my gf, but then went back. Friday and Saturday was an all nighter: 9am to 8pm or so, hung out with the gf for a few hours at home in the evening, worked a couple hours at home maybe 11pm-1am, decided I would work better in the office, so went back in, and worked from about 1:30am to 1 or 2pm.
As should be evident from my making this thread to bitch about it, this is not my typical week.
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Re: just billed 70 hrs in patent pros
By efficiency rate, he means the number of billed hours to worked hours. For example, on Wednesday, you worked for 12 hours (9 am to 9 pm) and billed 6.4 hours. That's close to a 50% efficiency rate - not very good at all. In contrast, if you really worked 9-5 on Monday, even without lunch, and billed 8.1 hours, that's an efficiency rate of over 100%! Instead of being impressive, though, it's just grounds for firing/disbarment. You did say you worked a little longer that day, though, so I'm sure it's fine. Hopefully.ballouttacontrol wrote: I work pretty consistently 9-5, sometimes take an hour for lunch out of the office.
. . . .
me on the 70 hr week was (Mon,Tue,W,Th,F,Sat): 8.1, 10.7, 6.4, 15, 12.2, 14.2, and off Sunday.
. . . .
Mon and Weds were pretty much 9-5ish, maybe a little longer on Monday. Weds was like 9-9pm. Thurs was about 8am-3am but left the office to have dinner with my gf, but then went back. Friday and Saturday was an all nighter: 9am to 8pm or so, hung out with the gf for a few hours at home in the evening, worked a couple hours at home maybe 11pm-1am, decided I would work better in the office, so went back in, and worked from about 1:30am to 1 or 2pm.
Regardless, I do agree that billing 70 hours sucks. Hopefully your bonus will reflect it.
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Re: just billed 70 hrs in patent pros
Exactly - this is what I meant by efficiency rate (hours billed / hours worked). I was asking because I'm heading into the world of patents for the foreseeable future, and I like to hear other peoples' experiences so I can gauge how things will go. Very helpful response - thanks for replying!gregfootball2001 wrote:By efficiency rate, he means the number of billed hours to worked hours. For example, on Wednesday, you worked for 12 hours (9 am to 9 pm) and billed 6.4 hours. That's close to a 50% efficiency rate - not very good at all. In contrast, if you really worked 9-5 on Monday, even without lunch, and billed 8.1 hours, that's an efficiency rate of over 100%! Instead of being impressive, though, it's just grounds for firing/disbarment. You did say you worked a little longer that day, though, so I'm sure it's fine. Hopefully.ballouttacontrol wrote: I work pretty consistently 9-5, sometimes take an hour for lunch out of the office.
. . . .
me on the 70 hr week was (Mon,Tue,W,Th,F,Sat): 8.1, 10.7, 6.4, 15, 12.2, 14.2, and off Sunday.
. . . .
Mon and Weds were pretty much 9-5ish, maybe a little longer on Monday. Weds was like 9-9pm. Thurs was about 8am-3am but left the office to have dinner with my gf, but then went back. Friday and Saturday was an all nighter: 9am to 8pm or so, hung out with the gf for a few hours at home in the evening, worked a couple hours at home maybe 11pm-1am, decided I would work better in the office, so went back in, and worked from about 1:30am to 1 or 2pm.
Regardless, I do agree that billing 70 hours sucks. Hopefully your bonus will reflect it.
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Re: just billed 70 hrs in patent pros
Exactly - this is what I meant by efficiency rate (hours billed / hours worked). I was asking because I'm heading into the world of patents for the foreseeable future, and I like to hear other peoples' experiences so I can gauge how things will go. Very helpful response - thanks for replying!gregfootball2001 wrote:By efficiency rate, he means the number of billed hours to worked hours. For example, on Wednesday, you worked for 12 hours (9 am to 9 pm) and billed 6.4 hours. That's close to a 50% efficiency rate - not very good at all. In contrast, if you really worked 9-5 on Monday, even without lunch, and billed 8.1 hours, that's an efficiency rate of over 100%! Instead of being impressive, though, it's just grounds for firing/disbarment. You did say you worked a little longer that day, though, so I'm sure it's fine. Hopefully.ballouttacontrol wrote: I work pretty consistently 9-5, sometimes take an hour for lunch out of the office.
. . . .
me on the 70 hr week was (Mon,Tue,W,Th,F,Sat): 8.1, 10.7, 6.4, 15, 12.2, 14.2, and off Sunday.
. . . .
Mon and Weds were pretty much 9-5ish, maybe a little longer on Monday. Weds was like 9-9pm. Thurs was about 8am-3am but left the office to have dinner with my gf, but then went back. Friday and Saturday was an all nighter: 9am to 8pm or so, hung out with the gf for a few hours at home in the evening, worked a couple hours at home maybe 11pm-1am, decided I would work better in the office, so went back in, and worked from about 1:30am to 1 or 2pm.
Regardless, I do agree that billing 70 hours sucks. Hopefully your bonus will reflect it.
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- p1921
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Re: just billed 70 hrs in patent pros
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like as a first year, this seems reasonable for drafting one of your first applications, plus some extra work built in (responding to office actions, etc.). My impression has been that people generally start out pretty inefficiently and get better at it quickly. So what took you 70 billable hours would be more like 40 or 50 in a few years once you're more experienced and better at it.
I don't mean to imply that you suck or whatever, just that from what patent attorneys have told there's a pretty steep learning curve for drafting applications. This only get worse if you get a technology you're completely unfamiliar with.
I don't mean to imply that you suck or whatever, just that from what patent attorneys have told there's a pretty steep learning curve for drafting applications. This only get worse if you get a technology you're completely unfamiliar with.
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Re: just billed 70 hrs in patent pros
theeeeeeeeeeeeeee...... chill bro they were both just guesses. my typical non-busy day is like 9-5:15 so based on my timesheet I guessed that's what it was for those days.gregfootball2001 wrote:That's close to a 50% efficiency rate - not very good at all. In contrast, if you really worked 9-5 on Monday, even without lunch, and billed 8.1 hours, that's an efficiency rate of over 100%! Instead of being impressive, though, it's just grounds for firing/disbarment. You did say you worked a little longer that day, though, so I'm sure it's fine. Hopefully.
Regardless, I do agree that billing 70 hours sucks. Hopefully your bonus will reflect it.
- elendinel
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Re: just billed 70 hrs in patent pros
Common? No. But has it happened (or has it been worse)? Definitely. Usually at the end of quarters/years (if you're on bigger clients), but sometimes deadlines pile up. It's not necessarily all 9-6, bill 7-8 hours a day.ballouttacontrol wrote:idk it felt out of the ordinary for me bro. i don't think ppl here work those hrs that often but its hard to really tell since everyone is gone by 5:30 but work at home. is this common for u?elendinel wrote:That just seems like an extremely unremarkable thing to remark about, even for pros.
Not that I don't get the pain, but...*shrug*.
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Re: just billed 70 hrs in patent pros
ywmecarey wrote:Exactly - this is what I meant by efficiency rate (hours billed / hours worked). I was asking because I'm heading into the world of patents for the foreseeable future, and I like to hear other peoples' experiences so I can gauge how things will go. Very helpful response - thanks for replying!gregfootball2001 wrote:By efficiency rate, he means the number of billed hours to worked hours. For example, on Wednesday, you worked for 12 hours (9 am to 9 pm) and billed 6.4 hours. That's close to a 50% efficiency rate - not very good at all. In contrast, if you really worked 9-5 on Monday, even without lunch, and billed 8.1 hours, that's an efficiency rate of over 100%! Instead of being impressive, though, it's just grounds for firing/disbarment. You did say you worked a little longer that day, though, so I'm sure it's fine. Hopefully.ballouttacontrol wrote: I work pretty consistently 9-5, sometimes take an hour for lunch out of the office.
. . . .
me on the 70 hr week was (Mon,Tue,W,Th,F,Sat): 8.1, 10.7, 6.4, 15, 12.2, 14.2, and off Sunday.
. . . .
Mon and Weds were pretty much 9-5ish, maybe a little longer on Monday. Weds was like 9-9pm. Thurs was about 8am-3am but left the office to have dinner with my gf, but then went back. Friday and Saturday was an all nighter: 9am to 8pm or so, hung out with the gf for a few hours at home in the evening, worked a couple hours at home maybe 11pm-1am, decided I would work better in the office, so went back in, and worked from about 1:30am to 1 or 2pm.
Regardless, I do agree that billing 70 hours sucks. Hopefully your bonus will reflect it.
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Re: just billed 70 hrs in patent pros
we don't typically have one person take an application from start to finish, and yea I had/have about 5 applications at various stages and 4 office actions which contributed to that 70 hrs. But yea I agree that I'll certainly get faster at what I do. But then they can load you with more work. So idkayyyyy we'll see!p1921 wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like as a first year, this seems reasonable for drafting one of your first applications, plus some extra work built in (responding to office actions, etc.). My impression has been that people generally start out pretty inefficiently and get better at it quickly. So what took you 70 billable hours would be more like 40 or 50 in a few years once you're more experienced and better at it.
I don't mean to imply that you suck or whatever, just that from what patent attorneys have told there's a pretty steep learning curve for drafting applications. This only get worse if you get a technology you're completely unfamiliar with.
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Re: just billed 70 hrs in patent pros
Isn't this possible when the firm's policy is to bill .10 hours for emails or call?ballouttacontrol wrote:theeeeeeeeeeeeeee...... chill bro they were both just guesses. my typical non-busy day is like 9-5:15 so based on my timesheet I guessed that's what it was for those days.gregfootball2001 wrote:That's close to a 50% efficiency rate - not very good at all. In contrast, if you really worked 9-5 on Monday, even without lunch, and billed 8.1 hours, that's an efficiency rate of over 100%! Instead of being impressive, though, it's just grounds for firing/disbarment. You did say you worked a little longer that day, though, so I'm sure it's fine. Hopefully.
Regardless, I do agree that billing 70 hours sucks. Hopefully your bonus will reflect it.
- kalvano
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Re: just billed 70 hrs in patent pros
Some firms don't do that?mvp99 wrote:Isn't this possible when the firm's policy is to bill .10 hours for emails or call?ballouttacontrol wrote:theeeeeeeeeeeeeee...... chill bro they were both just guesses. my typical non-busy day is like 9-5:15 so based on my timesheet I guessed that's what it was for those days.gregfootball2001 wrote:That's close to a 50% efficiency rate - not very good at all. In contrast, if you really worked 9-5 on Monday, even without lunch, and billed 8.1 hours, that's an efficiency rate of over 100%! Instead of being impressive, though, it's just grounds for firing/disbarment. You did say you worked a little longer that day, though, so I'm sure it's fine. Hopefully.
Regardless, I do agree that billing 70 hours sucks. Hopefully your bonus will reflect it.
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Re: just billed 70 hrs in patent pros
It's possible under any policy where you round up if you're working on a number of different tasks/matters. If you work on a brief for an hour and 31 minutes, take an 8 minute call, and draft discovery responses for 31 minutes, you've already billed 2.4 hours in 2.17 actual hours.mvp99 wrote:Isn't this possible when the firm's policy is to bill .10 hours for emails or call?ballouttacontrol wrote:theeeeeeeeeeeeeee...... chill bro they were both just guesses. my typical non-busy day is like 9-5:15 so based on my timesheet I guessed that's what it was for those days.gregfootball2001 wrote:That's close to a 50% efficiency rate - not very good at all. In contrast, if you really worked 9-5 on Monday, even without lunch, and billed 8.1 hours, that's an efficiency rate of over 100%! Instead of being impressive, though, it's just grounds for firing/disbarment. You did say you worked a little longer that day, though, so I'm sure it's fine. Hopefully.
Regardless, I do agree that billing 70 hours sucks. Hopefully your bonus will reflect it.
Usually people aren't efficient enough to get to this kind of result though.
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