Help me choose. Orrick (SV) v. Wilson Sonsini (SV) Forum

[Anonymous User]

Hi all,

I have been fortunate to get offers from both Orrick (SV) and Wilson Sonsini (SV). I am not sure which area of law I want to practice in. As of right now, I am interested in working in IP litigation and in VC/startup work. I wouldn't know which area to choose as of right now, because I haven't done any course work in either.

Factors that matter to me:
1- Prestige/reputation in the bay area
2- Firm culture - I prefer a more laid back culture and more on the nerdy/geeky side
3- Quality of work/types of clients - in areas of IP litigation and VC/Startup work
4- Summer program - this doesn't matter a lot to me as it is a short period, but it is sometimes representative of the firm's culture

Thanks all!

[Anonymous User]

I interviewed at WSGR. Here are my impressions:

1. Prestige- WSGR> Orrick for corporate work; Orrick> WSGR for litigation (with the exception of securities/IP, for which WSGR has the upper hand)
2. Culture- Orrick> WSGR (Orrick known for having a fantastic culture; WSGR has a sweat shoppy reputation and my impression was that it had a high turnover rate)
3. Quality of work/types of clients- WSGR> Orrick in the Bay Area for IP/securities lit; Orrick>>>WSGR for general lit (WSGR doesn't have a general lit practice, as far as I can tell, while Orrick's lit practice is well respected in the Bay Area); WSGR>>>Orrick for VC/Startup work
4. Summer program- Orrick? I heard it has one of the most fun programs, but that was for the SF office. I'd imagine a lot of the Orrick SV events are done jointly with the SF office.

[Anonymous User]

Interested in this too. Which firm is more selective generally in SV?

[Anonymous User]

Interested in this too. Which firm is more selective generally in SV?

Why does that matter?

I'm going to be the likely dissenting voice here and say go Orrick for anything litigation oriented. Orrick has one of the best IP lit trial teams in the country. They have a terrific appellate team. They do a lot of start up work and have a very dynamic practice. The firm sometimes gets some flak here because of its compensation system and its New York office is less selective, but its SF/SV presence is very highly regarded. They also have great Bay area office spaces, deep history in the region, a fun summer program and better lifestyle expectation, and exciting management.

If you wanted straight tech transactions, Wilson Sonsini would be the stronger choice. For IP or general lit, Orrick gets my vote.

[Anonymous User]

Interested in this too. Which firm is more selective generally in SV?

Why does that matter?

I'm going to be the likely dissenting voice here and say go Orrick for anything litigation oriented. Orrick has one of the best IP lit trial teams in the country. They have a terrific appellate team. They do a lot of start up work and have a very dynamic practice. The firm sometimes gets some flak here because of its compensation system and its New York office is less selective, but its SF/SV presence is very highly regarded. They also have great Bay area office spaces, deep history in the region, a fun summer program and better lifestyle expectation, and exciting management.

If you wanted straight tech transactions, Wilson Sonsini would be the stronger choice. For IP or general lit, Orrick gets my vote.

For bidding purposes (doing OCI next year).

[tyroneslothrop1]

I respectfully request that all persons making these threads stop preambling with "I'm fortunate to have offers from"/ "I'm lucky enough to be choosing between."

[SFSpartan]

For VC/Startup work, WSGR is leaps and bounds above Orrick. While they've moved more towards mature clients in recent years, WSGR is the best firm in the Valley for Company-side work. They also have very good fund work (though they are second to Cooley there). From where I sit (and I'm saying this as a corporate/transactional person), WSGR is also the most prestigious firm in SV.

I think IP lit is a closer call. Orrick probably has the better lit team, but I'm not sure that makes up for WSGR's prestige. Orrick is likely the more laid back of the two, though not sure any biglaw firm is truly laid back. The real advantage to Orrick would be getting out of WSGR's silo system - though I believe they are trying to scale said silos back by rotating associates through practice groups and partners.

Bottom line - there is no wrong answer here. If it was me, I'd choose WSGR in a heartbeat, but I've been 100% sold on emerging companies work since before law school.

[bk1]

I am not sure which area of law I want to practice in. As of right now, I am interested in working in IP litigation and in VC/startup work. I wouldn't know which area to choose as of right now, because I haven't done any course work in either.

Of course you haven't taken an entrepreneurship or patent class, but are you leaning towards either corporate or litigation?

[Anonymous User]

I am not sure which area of law I want to practice in. As of right now, I am interested in working in IP litigation and in VC/startup work. I wouldn't know which area to choose as of right now, because I haven't done any course work in either.

Of course you haven't taken an entrepreneurship or patent class, but are you leaning towards either corporate or litigation?

OP here. I am taking classes in both now. Leaning a little towards entrepreneurship, but still can't say for sure. For those that know about summers at WSGR or similar firms, can summers there switch practice groups in the summer and get full time offers from a practice group that is different from their initial one?

[Anonymous User]

I worked in-house in SV before 1L with a lot of former WSGR lawyers. There is a LOT of turnover at WSGR. your experience will depend on where you are slotted into the silo system. I have heard it's tough to move between the silos, so once you join, it is literally "up or out." If you join WSGR, don't expect to stay long. The exit options to a good in-house job are I think clearly better at WSGR due to the firm's client relationships.

Orrick definitely has the better culture, but WSGR has the bigger name among tech clients and more consistent breadth of practice areas.

Re: selectivity within the SV market, I'm not sure there is a clear distinction. WSGR has a bigger class (30+) while Orrick SV is probably less than 10. My impression is that WSGR gives out a lot of offers but it's not anyone's top choice. Everyone's going to pick Cooley/Fenwick/MoFo/Latham over WSGR and they know that. IDK what the Orrick vs. WSGR statistics are. Hope this helps. Congratulations.

[Anonymous User]

I worked in-house in SV before 1L with a lot of former WSGR lawyers. There is a LOT of turnover at WSGR. your experience will depend on where you are slotted into the silo system. I have heard it's tough to move between the silos, so once you join, it is literally "up or out." If you join WSGR, don't expect to stay long. The exit options to a good in-house job are I think clearly better at WSGR due to the firm's client relationships.

Orrick definitely has the better culture, but WSGR has the bigger name among tech clients and more consistent breadth of practice areas.

Re: selectivity within the SV market, I'm not sure there is a clear distinction. WSGR has a bigger class (30+) while Orrick SV is probably less than 10. My impression is that WSGR gives out a lot of offers but it's not anyone's top choice. Everyone's going to pick Cooley/Fenwick/MoFo/Latham over WSGR and they know that. IDK what the Orrick vs. WSGR statistics are. Hope this helps. Congratulations.

There is A LOT of outdated information on this site re: WSGR. Due to the Launch program, junior associates are not siloed into a specific group when they start anymore. Instead, associates can choose to rotate between different groups during the Launch program. At the end of the two year program, associates and each group will rank their preferences regarding who they want to work with and are matched accordingly. The workload is much more balanced between associates as a result of the program and both sides get a better feel of who they want to work with after Launch ends.

Much of what has been said about WSGR on TLS comes from people who have never worked there (or worked there before the modification to the silo system). WSGR is not for everyone, but the firm has taken a lot of initiative over the past few years to increase associate satisfaction. The junior associates I know are happy with the firm. Some people who leave WSGR do go to other firms, but the vast majority do so because WSGR serves as a fantastic pipeline to in-house opportunities. Also, to say "everyone" chooses Cooley/Fenwick/MoFo/Latham over WSGR is ridiculous. All of the firms are strong in the Bay Area, but people do choose WSGR over the others because it still holds the greatest market share of corporate work out of any other firm in SV and the WSGR name is well-regarded in the tech world.

OP, you will put in long hours at any biglaw firm. WSGR definitely has the stronger VC/startup practice; litigation is a closer call. I would go with whichever firm you feel like you would enjoy more. Congratulations on your cycle!

[rpupkin]

I worked in-house in SV before 1L with a lot of former WSGR lawyers. There is a LOT of turnover at WSGR.

There is a lot of turnover at every big law firm, including Orrick. The big law hiring model is premised on high turnover.

I sort of agree with the consensus in this thread: WSGR is definitely better for VC/Startup work, while Orrick is definitely better for general commercial lit (and probably for patent lit as well).

I think you need to decide whether you're into trans or lit. If you simply can't figure out that question right now, consider going to the firm that encourages its summers to sample both trans and lit.

[Anonymous User]

I worked in-house in SV before 1L with a lot of former WSGR lawyers. There is a LOT of turnover at WSGR. your experience will depend on where you are slotted into the silo system. I have heard it's tough to move between the silos, so once you join, it is literally "up or out." If you join WSGR, don't expect to stay long. The exit options to a good in-house job are I think clearly better at WSGR due to the firm's client relationships.

Orrick definitely has the better culture, but WSGR has the bigger name among tech clients and more consistent breadth of practice areas.

Re: selectivity within the SV market, I'm not sure there is a clear distinction. WSGR has a bigger class (30+) while Orrick SV is probably less than 10. My impression is that WSGR gives out a lot of offers but it's not anyone's top choice. Everyone's going to pick Cooley/Fenwick/MoFo/Latham over WSGR and they know that. IDK what the Orrick vs. WSGR statistics are. Hope this helps. Congratulations.

There is A LOT of outdated information on this site re: WSGR. Due to the Launch program, junior associates are not siloed into a specific group when they start anymore. Instead, associates can choose to rotate between different groups during the Launch program. At the end of the two year program, associates and each group will rank their preferences regarding who they want to work with and are matched accordingly. The workload is much more balanced between associates as a result of the program and both sides get a better feel of who they want to work with after Launch ends.

Much of what has been said about WSGR on TLS comes from people who have never worked there (or worked there before the modification to the silo system). WSGR is not for everyone, but the firm has taken a lot of initiative over the past few years to increase associate satisfaction. The junior associates I know are happy with the firm. Some people who leave WSGR do go to other firms, but the vast majority do so because WSGR serves as a fantastic pipeline to in-house opportunities. Also, to say "everyone" chooses Cooley/Fenwick/MoFo/Latham over WSGR is ridiculous. All of the firms are strong in the Bay Area, but people do choose WSGR over the others because it still holds the greatest market share of corporate work out of any other firm in SV and the WSGR name is well-regarded in the tech world.

OP, you will put in long hours at any biglaw firm. WSGR definitely has the stronger VC/startup practice; litigation is a closer call. I would go with whichever firm you feel like you would enjoy more. Congratulations on your cycle!

Original commenter here. I should clarify that many of the former WSGR lawyers were at least a few years out of the firm and into their in-house jobs. I don't claim to know anything about the Launch program. If the consensus is that Launch is good, and has contributed to an uptick in associate satisfaction, you can forget everything I said in the first paragraph. I agree with the above poster that WSGR's client book in SV is unrivaled.

"Everyone" was an exaggeration but I have never met anyone enthusiastic about WSGR's culture. You should certainly not base your decision on what anonymous commenters say on the internet, myself included. You should talk to as many people at both firms as possible and ask them tough questions. Do second looks at both offices. Ask out former summer associates who are now 3Ls out to lunch or coffee. If you know of any Orrick/WSGR alumni, do the same--you'll get a different, and possibly more honest perspective. Nowhere is perfect and yes, you'll have to work hard anywhere you go. I think the variable in your control is 1) picking the firm based on strength of practice area and 2) asking whether the lawyers are people you can tolerate when shit hits the fan and you're working 18 hour days.

[Anonymous User]

I worked in-house in SV before 1L with a lot of former WSGR lawyers. There is a LOT of turnover at WSGR. your experience will depend on where you are slotted into the silo system. I have heard it's tough to move between the silos, so once you join, it is literally "up or out." If you join WSGR, don't expect to stay long. The exit options to a good in-house job are I think clearly better at WSGR due to the firm's client relationships.

Orrick definitely has the better culture, but WSGR has the bigger name among tech clients and more consistent breadth of practice areas.

Re: selectivity within the SV market, I'm not sure there is a clear distinction. WSGR has a bigger class (30+) while Orrick SV is probably less than 10. My impression is that WSGR gives out a lot of offers but it's not anyone's top choice. Everyone's going to pick Cooley/Fenwick/MoFo/Latham over WSGR and they know that. IDK what the Orrick vs. WSGR statistics are. Hope this helps. Congratulations.

There is A LOT of outdated information on this site re: WSGR. Due to the Launch program, junior associates are not siloed into a specific group when they start anymore. Instead, associates can choose to rotate between different groups during the Launch program. At the end of the two year program, associates and each group will rank their preferences regarding who they want to work with and are matched accordingly. The workload is much more balanced between associates as a result of the program and both sides get a better feel of who they want to work with after Launch ends.

Much of what has been said about WSGR on TLS comes from people who have never worked there (or worked there before the modification to the silo system). WSGR is not for everyone, but the firm has taken a lot of initiative over the past few years to increase associate satisfaction. The junior associates I know are happy with the firm. Some people who leave WSGR do go to other firms, but the vast majority do so because WSGR serves as a fantastic pipeline to in-house opportunities. Also, to say "everyone" chooses Cooley/Fenwick/MoFo/Latham over WSGR is ridiculous. All of the firms are strong in the Bay Area, but people do choose WSGR over the others because it still holds the greatest market share of corporate work out of any other firm in SV and the WSGR name is well-regarded in the tech world.

OP, you will put in long hours at any biglaw firm. WSGR definitely has the stronger VC/startup practice; litigation is a closer call. I would go with whichever firm you feel like you would enjoy more. Congratulations on your cycle!

Original commenter here. I should clarify that many of the former WSGR lawyers were at least a few years out of the firm and into their in-house jobs. I don't claim to know anything about the Launch program. If the consensus is that Launch is good, and has contributed to an uptick in associate satisfaction, you can forget everything I said in the first paragraph. I agree with the above poster that WSGR's client book in SV is unrivaled.

"Everyone" was an exaggeration but I have never met anyone enthusiastic about WSGR's culture. You should certainly not base your decision on what anonymous commenters say on the internet, myself included. You should talk to as many people at both firms as possible and ask them tough questions. Do second looks at both offices. Ask out former summer associates who are now 3Ls out to lunch or coffee. If you know of any Orrick/WSGR alumni, do the same--you'll get a different, and possibly more honest perspective. Nowhere is perfect and yes, you'll have to work hard anywhere you go. I think the variable in your control is 1) picking the firm based on strength of practice area and 2) asking whether the lawyers are people you can tolerate when shit hits the fan and you're working 18 hour days.

Wilson lit summer here. The silo'ing is very real on the lit side. It's very frustrating and limiting.

[zot1]

I'm pretty sure OP already made a decision by now.

[bk1]

I'm pretty sure OP already made a decision by now.