Income Requirements for NY Housing Forum

[Anonymous User]

(Wasn't sure whether to post in the "Where to live" thread)

Me and my roommate are incoming first-years at a 180k firm. We wanted to apply for a 2br in a managed building near our office but the salesperson who showed us the unit (not a leasing professional) said that we're going to need a guarantor (makes 80x monthly rent) or pay 5-months rent up front because the two of us didn't make 40x the monthly rent last year (i.e., our most recent tax return doesn't reflect an income that's 40x monthly rent).

Apparently, our summer associate income doesn't count because it was only for 3 months. We both have letters from our firms confirming our salary. Our combined income is over 80x the monthly rent. Our credit scores are good and we have enough cash sitting in our accounts to pay the down payments.

Is this typical for managed buildings? We were under the impression that our salary letters were enough to satisfy the typical income requirements. I can't tell if this guy--as a salesperson and not one of the leasing people--doesn't know what he's talking about or if this building is just particular or all managed buildings are like this.

[Avian]

(Wasn't sure whether to post in the "Where to live" thread)

Me and my roommate are incoming first-years at a 180k firm. We wanted to apply for a 2br in a managed building near our office but the salesperson who showed us the unit (not a leasing professional) said that we're going to need a guarantor (makes 80x monthly rent) or pay 5-months rent up front because the two of us didn't make 40x the monthly rent last year (i.e., our most recent tax return doesn't reflect an income that's 40x monthly rent).

Apparently, our summer associate income doesn't count because it was only for 3 months. We both have letters from our firms confirming our salary. Our combined income is over 80x the monthly rent. Our credit scores are good and we have enough cash sitting in our accounts to pay the down payments.

Is this typical for managed buildings? We were under the impression that our salary letters were enough to satisfy the typical income requirements. I can't tell if this guy--as a salesperson and not one of the leasing people--doesn't know what he's talking about or if this building is just particular or all managed buildings are like this.

Not all buildings will accept future income, but some will. It all depends on the landlord. I'm also starting this fall and was able to rent a place with a friend who only made about 20x on his own, but my future income will put us well over the 40x requirement. This particular building accepted a letter of employment and may have also taken into account bank statements showing I had enough money to cover rent until I start work. Other property managers we talked to were variously willing to accept additional security (one or two months) instead of a guarantor. Since neither of you are working, I'd expect they may want more security. You can also look into using a guarantor company.

[Anonymous User]

(Wasn't sure whether to post in the "Where to live" thread)

Me and my roommate are incoming first-years at a 180k firm. We wanted to apply for a 2br in a managed building near our office but the salesperson who showed us the unit (not a leasing professional) said that we're going to need a guarantor (makes 80x monthly rent) or pay 5-months rent up front because the two of us didn't make 40x the monthly rent last year (i.e., our most recent tax return doesn't reflect an income that's 40x monthly rent).

Apparently, our summer associate income doesn't count because it was only for 3 months. We both have letters from our firms confirming our salary. Our combined income is over 80x the monthly rent. Our credit scores are good and we have enough cash sitting in our accounts to pay the down payments.

Is this typical for managed buildings? We were under the impression that our salary letters were enough to satisfy the typical income requirements. I can't tell if this guy--as a salesperson and not one of the leasing people--doesn't know what he's talking about or if this building is just particular or all managed buildings are like this.

Not all buildings will accept future income, but some will. It all depends on the landlord. I'm also starting this fall and was able to rent a place with a friend who only made about 20x on his own, but my future income will put us well over the 40x requirement. This particular building accepted a letter of employment and may have also taken into account bank statements showing I had enough money to cover rent until I start work. Other property managers we talked to were variously willing to accept additional security (one or two months) instead of a guarantor. Since neither of you are working, I'd expect they may want more security. You can also look into using a guarantor company.

Fuckkkkkkkkkk. Okay thanks for clarification

[sublime]

Damn. I just assumed that most/all places would be good with a future salary letter.

[Sgtpeppernyc]

I think that's atypical. I lived in a managed building my first year in and had no problem with a letter from my firm. I had also been told that buildings require a few months extra down if you don't have salary from the prior year, but never actually experienced that in real life.

[bretby]

(Wasn't sure whether to post in the "Where to live" thread)

Me and my roommate are incoming first-years at a 180k firm. We wanted to apply for a 2br in a managed building near our office but the salesperson who showed us the unit (not a leasing professional) said that we're going to need a guarantor (makes 80x monthly rent) or pay 5-months rent up front because the two of us didn't make 40x the monthly rent last year (i.e., our most recent tax return doesn't reflect an income that's 40x monthly rent).

Apparently, our summer associate income doesn't count because it was only for 3 months. We both have letters from our firms confirming our salary. Our combined income is over 80x the monthly rent. Our credit scores are good and we have enough cash sitting in our accounts to pay the down payments.

Is this typical for managed buildings? We were under the impression that our salary letters were enough to satisfy the typical income requirements. I can't tell if this guy--as a salesperson and not one of the leasing people--doesn't know what he's talking about or if this building is just particular or all managed buildings are like this.

This is not atypical, but like others have said, you can sometimes negotiate around it by offering to pay more upfront, if you have it, or else using a guarantor, though they often require the guarantor to be tri-state.

[2014]

My building took a letter but stuck me with a 2 month security deposit instead of the typical 1 to make up for the lack of a useful W2.

[elendinel]

It seems unusual to me, but if you don't have bank statements showing you have the money for several months up front, maybe that's why. I also was actually working before I tried to get into a building with a management company, so that could also be why (they may be concerned that you're going to start, but have not yet started).

I'm also not sure what you mean by "salesperson" rather than "leasing professional"; are you trying to distinguish between an actual leasing agent of the building, and a broker? I will say that brokers do know what they're talking about, but some can also be kind of shady. Use your best judgment; having to travel an extra 15 minutes to work is worth avoiding a year of headaches or regrets, if you don't want to agree to this deal, or if you don't feel like the guy's being honest with you. If you can't tell, you should be looking at many different apartments, to get a better feel for the market and for what other buildings are looking for.

[Anonymous User]

It seems unusual to me, but if you don't have bank statements showing you have the money for several months up front, maybe that's why. I also was actually working before I tried to get into a building with a management company, so that could also be why (they may be concerned that you're going to start, but have not yet started).

I'm also not sure what you mean by "salesperson" rather than "leasing professional"; are you trying to distinguish between an actual leasing agent of the building, and a broker? I will say that brokers do know what they're talking about, but some can also be kind of shady. Use your best judgment; having to travel an extra 15 minutes to work is worth avoiding a year of headaches or regrets, if you don't want to agree to this deal, or if you don't feel like the guy's being honest with you. If you can't tell, you should be looking at many different apartments, to get a better feel for the market and for what other buildings are looking for.

OP here. Well the guy we spoke to doesn't do any of the leasing and he's not a broker, he's one of the employees that respond to applicant inquiries and does tours of the units. I was making the distinction because he's not one of the people who reviews and approves/denies applications.

I actually pushed back a little and asked him what his basis was for saying we would need a guarantor and he just said he's just trying to manage expectations but doesn't actually know if prior income is a requirement. He said our future income is high enough where we might be fine and that we can take the chance and just apply if we want.

[1styearlateral]

What's the problem with having a guaranty along with your lease? It's pretty common.

[2014]

What's the problem with having a guaranty along with your lease? It's pretty common.

You need someone who can sign a guaranty - I don't know many people making 80x NY rent rushing to sign up to encumber their credit for my benefit and I'm sure others are in the same boat.

[1styearlateral]

What's the problem with having a guaranty along with your lease? It's pretty common.

You need someone who can sign a guaranty - I don't know many people making 80x NY rent rushing to sign up to encumber their credit for my benefit and I'm sure others are in the same boat.

The standard is 40x but I suppose I see your point. Time to make a call to mom and dad.

Also, AFAIK, signing a guaranty does not encumber one's credit... it's just an addendum to your lease which gets filed in the management co's office.

[sublime]

What's the problem with having a guaranty along with your lease? It's pretty common.

You need someone who can sign a guaranty - I don't know many people making 80x NY rent rushing to sign up to encumber their credit for my benefit and I'm sure others are in the same boat.

The standard is 40x but I suppose I see your point. Time to make a call to mom and dad.

Also, AFAIK, signing a guaranty does not encumber one's credit... it's just an addendum to your lease which gets filed in the management co's office.

Most things I have seen is that you have to make 40x if it is you, but your guarantor has to make 80x (which makes sense, as presumably they have housing costs of their own) and sometimes they have to be in the tristate area I have read.

Alot of our parents don't make that (160-240k for a 2-3k apt)

[2014]

Yeah I think standard for guarantor is double whatever they are asking for from the principal. Half the buildings I saw were looking for 45-50x from principals (instead of the oft-quoted 40) and presumably those would push to 90-100x for guarantors.

[elendinel]

It seems unusual to me, but if you don't have bank statements showing you have the money for several months up front, maybe that's why. I also was actually working before I tried to get into a building with a management company, so that could also be why (they may be concerned that you're going to start, but have not yet started).

I'm also not sure what you mean by "salesperson" rather than "leasing professional"; are you trying to distinguish between an actual leasing agent of the building, and a broker? I will say that brokers do know what they're talking about, but some can also be kind of shady. Use your best judgment; having to travel an extra 15 minutes to work is worth avoiding a year of headaches or regrets, if you don't want to agree to this deal, or if you don't feel like the guy's being honest with you. If you can't tell, you should be looking at many different apartments, to get a better feel for the market and for what other buildings are looking for.

OP here. Well the guy we spoke to doesn't do any of the leasing and he's not a broker, he's one of the employees that respond to applicant inquiries and does tours of the units. I was making the distinction because he's not one of the people who reviews and approves/denies applications.

I actually pushed back a little and asked him what his basis was for saying we would need a guarantor and he just said he's just trying to manage expectations but doesn't actually know if prior income is a requirement. He said our future income is high enough where we might be fine and that we can take the chance and just apply if we want.

I see; so he's a leasing agent hired by the building management company. TBH I find it a bit sketchy that he wouldn't tell you that it's not required until you pushed him on it; the good agents/brokers I've worked with told me stuff like, "I don't know if ___ will be okay, and you probably should do [other thing], but let's go ahead and do ___. I will warn you you could lose the apartment if management doesn't like ___ though, so it'd be better if you just do [other thing]" upfront whenever there was an issue (like I didn't have a recent employment letter yet, etc.) and gave me the option to proceed with a weaker app, or to do the thing they wanted me to do to make my app stronger. But if they otherwise seem like they're being honest with you about everything else, maybe it's worth getting the extra money so you can seal the deal. Trust your gut.

What's the problem with having a guaranty along with your lease? It's pretty common.

Guarantors are typical, but most people don't have rich parents who can cover 80x their rent (or more, in some instances).

There are companies you can hire to be your guarantor, but I've never used one, and at that point I feel like you may as well AirBnB/rent a month-to-month sublet until you can find an apt for which you don't need a guarantor.

[1styearlateral]

Y'all need to stop looking at luxury and managed buildings I guess.