Switch from BigLaw to Consulting? (California) Forum

[note7wins]

Hi everyone!

I have few questions on switching from biglaw to consulting at M/B/B and would much appreciate sharing any personal experience. I'm currently a first year at biglaw CA office (not sure if it matters in CA but V50) doing corporate finance, mostly acquisition finance and have been quite fortunate to get some early experiences. But long story short, I've become quickly disenchanted with transactional work and would like to do more strategizing and big picture stuff and have started to give thought to switching over to consulting. I'm not from T10, but do see that Mck and Bain recruit from my law school. Now that I'm trying to gauge my chances to get my foot in the door, the consensus seems to be that biglaw transactional experience brings 0 value to the table and I would have to compete with fresh MBA grads or business PhDs. Is this truly the case? Also, there were some posts suggesting that consultants have WAY less job security than those at big law. Curious to know why that may be the case. Any idea as to how attrition rate compare among Mck, Bain and BCG? Thanks for your input in advance!

[TripTrip]

I'm not from T10, but do see that Mck and Bain recruit from my law school.

It's interesting to hear Bain on that list. They have reputation for shunning non-MBAs. Even the science PhDs I've talked to had a hard time getting in with them. I've never met a JD who bothered to interview there. But worth a shot if they recruit.

Now that I'm trying to gauge my chances to get my foot in the door, the consensus seems to be that biglaw transactional experience brings 0 value to the table and I would have to compete with fresh MBA grads or business PhDs. Is this truly the case?

I don't think it brings zero value to the table, but you are competing with fresh MBA grads. More specifically, you're competing with PhDs, MDs, and JDs; usually we get lumped together as non-MBA advanced degree holders. If you can nail case interviews you should have a leg up.

You should definitely try to sell the transnational experience. The ex-corporate-lawyers I met while interviewing didn't seem to think highly of the usefulness of the work they had been doing. But I have no idea how they would look at it when hiring.

Also, there were some posts suggesting that consultants have WAY less job security than those at big law. Curious to know why that may be the case. Any idea as to how attrition rate compare among Mck, Bain and BCG? Thanks for your input in advance!

The attrition rates at BigLaw and consulting firms are similar, but for strikingly opposite reasons. Both law firms and consulting firms aim to achieve a similar pyramid-shaped structure with more junior associates, fewer senior associates, and fewer still partners to maximize profits. Law firms seem to do this by making quality of life shit so junior associates who lack the determination to bill more hours just quit. (I've never worked at a firm, but that's the impression I got as an SA.) Consulting firms do this much more directly with an up-or-out system. You can't stay in your position for more than a predetermined amount of time (think 2-4 years), and if you're not promoted at the end of the time you're out. I think the LD50 of a new consultant is probably around 3 years, but that's just a guess based on the number of people in each level of seniority at my firm.

That's not to say you're left high and dry. Most firms have a solid alumni program. Usually when you're "out" you go to work for a client. A lot of people go in expecting to leave in two years to go in-house at a client, because the system is designed to help them do exactly that. Unlike law firms, there's no push for everyone to make partner. You can go into your interviews saying you want experience to leave and work on a startup in three years and they'll be totally on board with that.

[note7wins]

I'm not from T10, but do see that Mck and Bain recruit from my law school.

It's interesting to hear Bain on that list. They have reputation for shunning non-MBAs. Even the science PhDs I've talked to had a hard time getting in with them. I've never met a JD who bothered to interview there. But worth a shot if they recruit.

Now that I'm trying to gauge my chances to get my foot in the door, the consensus seems to be that biglaw transactional experience brings 0 value to the table and I would have to compete with fresh MBA grads or business PhDs. Is this truly the case?

I don't think it brings zero value to the table, but you are competing with fresh MBA grads. More specifically, you're competing with PhDs, MDs, and JDs; usually we get lumped together as non-MBA advanced degree holders. If you can nail case interviews you should have a leg up.

You should definitely try to sell the transnational experience. The ex-corporate-lawyers I met while interviewing didn't seem to think highly of the usefulness of the work they had been doing. But I have no idea how they would look at it when hiring.

Also, there were some posts suggesting that consultants have WAY less job security than those at big law. Curious to know why that may be the case. Any idea as to how attrition rate compare among Mck, Bain and BCG? Thanks for your input in advance!

The attrition rates at BigLaw and consulting firms are similar, but for strikingly opposite reasons. Both law firms and consulting firms aim to achieve a similar pyramid-shaped structure with more junior associates, fewer senior associates, and fewer still partners to maximize profits. Law firms seem to do this by making quality of life shit so junior associates who lack the determination to bill more hours just quit. (I've never worked at a firm, but that's the impression I got as an SA.) Consulting firms do this much more directly with an up-or-out system. You can't stay in your position for more than a predetermined amount of time (think 2-4 years), and if you're not promoted at the end of the time you're out. I think the LD50 of a new consultant is probably around 3 years, but that's just a guess based on the number of people in each level of seniority at my firm.

That's not to say you're left high and dry. Most firms have a solid alumni program. Usually when you're "out" you go to work for a client. A lot of people go in expecting to leave in two years to go in-house at a client, because the system is designed to help them do exactly that. Unlike law firms, there's no push for everyone to make partner. You can go into your interviews saying you want experience to leave and work on a startup in three years and they'll be totally on board with that.

Really appreciate your response -- this is far more helpful than I expected. Think it's safe to infer that you're currently working as a consultant with a law degree? Do you mind sharing a bit about what your typical day looks like? Did you have pre-lawschool experience at consulting or other job involving quantitative analysis? Do you and your peers find the work rewarding in the sense that you're really solving complex problems for your client? One of the reasons for me growing impatient with transactional work is that no matter what level you are, your task is to faithfully implement/document a plan/term sheet that your client sends along. Also, in terms of the getting an interview and hiring prospects, would it help if I lateral to a V10 firm (seems pretty doable in CA) and stick it out for another 6-12months before applying to MBB? Apologies for the barrage of questions but the more I read about management consulting, seems to be the right fit for me so would appreciate any personal experience you have to share.

[Anonymous User]

I am not a consultant but I do have friends who are and I have been interested in the field for a while now. Re: your last question, lateraling to a v10 just to get a "better name" on your resume is probably going to be a huge waste of your time. You seem to be already at a reputable firm so you shouldn't have a problem getting interviews. (MBB folks probably don't even know about vault rankings and in general aren't as obsessed with prestige). And they might knock you down a year/start you as a first year associate so you might want to make the jump asap. At the end of the day, it is about acing the case interviews and having a good story for "why consulting."

[TripTrip]

I haven't started yet, so unfortunately I don't really have insight to most of the rest of your questions.

As to my background, I don't have a consulting or business background. I started a profitable business in law school for law students; that's probably most of the reason they hired me.

I do agree with the above anon though. The two most important things to get in would be killing case interviews and having a good "why consulting" that goes beyond "law sucks."

[note7wins]

Thanks to both Anon and TripTrip.

How closley do they track your interview performance when it comes to the final offer? Generally speaking, is there a chance that they would hire someone with pre-mba consulting, business, or some analyst experience over me even if I performed better in my interview?

[Anonymous User]

same anon here. I won't be surprised if they look favorably upon some sort of business/consulting experience. But again, as TripTrip mentioned, you will be competing against non-MBA advanced degree candidates (MD, JD PhD, Masters etc) so chances are you won't be competing against people with business experience. Second, the interview process is pretty methodical if I remember correctly. They use a score sheet to measure your case performance so if you kill it, you are going to be hired over that former investment banker who does not perform as well.

[Catsinthebag]

I'm not from T10, but do see that Mck and Bain recruit from my law school.

It's interesting to hear Bain on that list. They have reputation for shunning non-MBAs. Even the science PhDs I've talked to had a hard time getting in with them. I've never met a JD who bothered to interview there. But worth a shot if they recruit.

Now that I'm trying to gauge my chances to get my foot in the door, the consensus seems to be that biglaw transactional experience brings 0 value to the table and I would have to compete with fresh MBA grads or business PhDs. Is this truly the case?

I don't think it brings zero value to the table, but you are competing with fresh MBA grads. More specifically, you're competing with PhDs, MDs, and JDs; usually we get lumped together as non-MBA advanced degree holders. If you can nail case interviews you should have a leg up.

You should definitely try to sell the transnational experience. The ex-corporate-lawyers I met while interviewing didn't seem to think highly of the usefulness of the work they had been doing. But I have no idea how they would look at it when hiring.

Also, there were some posts suggesting that consultants have WAY less job security than those at big law. Curious to know why that may be the case. Any idea as to how attrition rate compare among Mck, Bain and BCG? Thanks for your input in advance!

The attrition rates at BigLaw and consulting firms are similar, but for strikingly opposite reasons. Both law firms and consulting firms aim to achieve a similar pyramid-shaped structure with more junior associates, fewer senior associates, and fewer still partners to maximize profits. Law firms seem to do this by making quality of life shit so junior associates who lack the determination to bill more hours just quit. (I've never worked at a firm, but that's the impression I got as an SA.) Consulting firms do this much more directly with an up-or-out system. You can't stay in your position for more than a predetermined amount of time (think 2-4 years), and if you're not promoted at the end of the time you're out. I think the LD50 of a new consultant is probably around 3 years, but that's just a guess based on the number of people in each level of seniority at my firm.

That's not to say you're left high and dry. Most firms have a solid alumni program. Usually when you're "out" you go to work for a client. A lot of people go in expecting to leave in two years to go in-house at a client, because the system is designed to help them do exactly that. Unlike law firms, there's no push for everyone to make partner. You can go into your interviews saying you want experience to leave and work on a startup in three years and they'll be totally on board with that.

This is great insight even for me who is not interested in this path at all. Could you excuse my ignorance and tell me what the LD50 means? Thanks!

[TripTrip]

This is great insight even for me who is not interested in this path at all. Could you excuse my ignorance and tell me what the LD50 means? Thanks!

Ah, I was jokingly referring to the scientific "median lethal dose." What I meant to say was that about half of new consultants leave by year three.

[Anonymous User]

You won't get a job at a consulting firm if you suck at case interviews even if you are a HBS graduate. They are not for everyone. Your law school undergrad school prestige will open the door for the first interview. I suggest you do mock case interviews with other people who prepare for consulting and see if you pull it off.

Regarding the exit option after a consulting firm, you will likely to have a chance at the finance industry as an in house consultant or strategy division. If you have an engineering degree, your exit options would be like a business strategy VP in a tech company. If you have a BA degree but worked in finance at a law firm, your exit option would be like in real estate or VC. If you have a business/econ/finance major and worked in finance at a law firm, your exit option would be like the broader finance industry incl banking. If you stay in the consulting industry only for a couple of years and you have relevant work experience prior to law school, your best career trajectory would be like a COO at a company (start with marketing manager or business development manager and move towards COO, Business Operations, etc)

Your past experiences and degress will determine where you will end up and what you do in the future.