Red flags at SA? Forum

[Anonymous User]

I am a 2L SA at a Fortune 500 company. This is their first SA program and they have been pretty open about intending to give offers to everyone.

I have noticed some red flags already and I'm curious if this is a sign of things to come if I get an offer...

- We signed a contract for ten weeks last fall but, right before we started, they announced we are only working for eight weeks.

- We signed a contract specifying our hourly pay and our overtime rate for anything over forty hours. Now that we're here, we've been told not to claim overtime if we stay late here and there because we also "go to the bathroom and talk to coworkers during the day, so it all balances out". Some people are working until 9pm and not claiming it.

- They provided a public transit pass for the first month of the SA because we frequently have to travel around the city for work. Now, going into the second month, they didn't give us another one. I inquired and, after some prodding, they finally said to purchase it myself and fill out the reimbursement paperwork. I did and submitted the paperwork but they never acknowledged it.

This all seems like very transparent and desperate attempts to save money and it makes me wonder - if they do this to SAs from T14 schools they are trying to recruit, how do they treat their actual employees?

Are these red flags a valid concern???

[Anonymous User]

Yes, this is all very shady. Law firms and the legal industry in general are supposed to be a class act, especially when employing attorneys of this caliber. I would seriously reconsider accepting an offer here for after graduation.

[Anonymous User]

some of that sound borderline illegal.... i would seriously consider switching

[smile0751]

some of that sound borderline illegal.... i would seriously consider switching

^^^

Do you like the people? When you get the offer, I'd try to talk to the employee you like/trust the most to get their most honest opinion of what it's like to work there.

[Anonymous User]

It's an in-house internship -- not a traditional biglaw SA -- so I'd relax your expectations a bit. I doubt they see retaining you and your class cohorts as mission-critical in the same way that a biglaw firm would, and they probably are trying to cut costs on the internship program.

If you like the company and the culture, I wouldn't rule out working there based on these cost-cutting measures. If you're worried that the company might not treat permanent employees fairly, talk to an attorney you trust about the ups and downs of life at the company (make it seem like you're trying to learn about the company so that you can succeed when you return as a full-time employee -- you don't want to make it seem like you're anything less than 100% on-board).

If you get an offer and you're still not sure, do 3L OCI and see if you get anything better. I wouldn't discard this opportunity because they made you buy your own metro pass.

[imalreadyamember?]

some of that sound borderline illegal.... i would seriously consider switching

How? They're at-will employees. They can change the terms if they want because the "contract" they signed is almost definitely not a binding contract but rather a list of terms that they sign to show they have read them. Unless it's a rare job that gives up the right to change things later on. Doubtful.

The only potentially illegal thing is the overtime. But the SAs are probably exempt---if they're paying on par with law firms, definitely exempt; if they could be classified as unpaid interns if the company wanted, probably also exempt; etc.

OP dont worry about the legality of it (and you're not gonna sue because you're trying to get a job). They are red flags though. At the very least it shows disorganization. Keep your head up for any signs that it's general disorganization rather than just kinks they have to work out because it's their first year. If it's just the way they do things or if it's a reflection of their financial situation, then worry. I think my default is to think it's because it's their first time doing a summer program.

[hoos89]

some of that sound borderline illegal.... i would seriously consider switching

How? They're at-will employees. They can change the terms if they want because the "contract" they signed is almost definitely not a binding contract but rather a list of terms that they sign to show they have read them. Unless it's a rare job that gives up the right to change things later on. Doubtful.

The only potentially illegal thing is the overtime. But the SAs are probably exempt---if they're paying on par with law firms, definitely exempt; if they could be classified as unpaid interns if the company wanted, probably also exempt; etc.

OP dont worry about the legality of it (and you're not gonna sue because you're trying to get a job). They are red flags though. At the very least it shows disorganization. Keep your head up for any signs that it's general disorganization rather than just kinks they have to work out because it's their first year. If it's just the way they do things or if it's a reflection of their financial situation, then worry. I think my default is to think it's because it's their first time doing a summer program.

The overtime thing actually might be illegal since they're paid hourly.

[imalreadyamember?]

some of that sound borderline illegal.... i would seriously consider switching

How? They're at-will employees. They can change the terms if they want because the "contract" they signed is almost definitely not a binding contract but rather a list of terms that they sign to show they have read them. Unless it's a rare job that gives up the right to change things later on. Doubtful.

The only potentially illegal thing is the overtime. But the SAs are probably exempt---if they're paying on par with law firms, definitely exempt; if they could be classified as unpaid interns if the company wanted, probably also exempt; etc.

OP dont worry about the legality of it (and you're not gonna sue because you're trying to get a job). They are red flags though. At the very least it shows disorganization. Keep your head up for any signs that it's general disorganization rather than just kinks they have to work out because it's their first year. If it's just the way they do things or if it's a reflection of their financial situation, then worry. I think my default is to think it's because it's their first time doing a summer program.

The overtime thing actually might be illegal since they're paid hourly.

This is true. I didn't think about the distinction but you're right. Okay OP so this part might be illegal but still depends. It's stupidly easy for an employer to get away with this kind of shit. And again you aren't gonna sue or file a complaint about it because that wouldn't be worth it. If you don't get an offer, you could file an anonymous tip about it I guess. But if they only do this for their 8-or-10-week summers and not their actual employees, I'd just suck it up. Getting an in-house job this early is the dream for some people so don't worry about it unless it really seems like it says something about the company itself.

[Anonymous User]

How's the stock price been the last year?

[LaLiLuLeLo]

I find it a bit funny that the advice on a forum full of law students and lawyers regarding what are very likely illegal practices is "don't worry about it".

[tyroneslothrop1]

Have to be paid a salary to qualify for the professional exemption so your employer is committing several wage-and-hour violations. Probably not a good sign! And lol at "it balances out since you guys go to the bathroom." Not how it works.

[reasonable_man]

Have to be paid a salary to qualify for the professional exemption so your employer is committing several wage-and-hour violations. Probably not a good sign! And lol at "it balances out since you guys go to the bathroom." Not how it works.

I'm pretty sure I've actually had clients tell me that this is their theory. I then have to gracefully tell them its illegal.

Op. This is a 2L SA. At the end of the summer, do a pro/con analysis and decide if you want to be there. If you don't, accept the position and then keep looking for a different job. I wouldn't want to join the ranks of jobless 3Ls trying to find a job, based on a few red flags. Don't walk away from the offer until you absolutely have something lined up. I'm sure there are countless threads about how hard it can be to find something during 3L - even at a T14.