Froze out - what to do? Forum

[Anonymous User]

First year and pretty sure I'm being freezed out. I haven't really been getting placed on much since I've been here except for when shit hits the fan and the back of the bullpen is needed. I had a bad review focusing on low hours and some mistakes I made when I first started. The mistakes were bad, but others told me that my concern shouldn't be about the mistakes but that mistakes like that are a big deal.

I don't think I was cold offered. I had one really bad review at the beginning of my summer, but all good reviews after that and was told my reviews were outstanding at the exit interview. One partner I worked with a lot said she'd understand if I interviewed elsewhere because she knew I underperformed my numbers and had turned down a more "prestigious" firm based on fit, but the summer only reinforced my decision. However, I have felt like a communist during the McCarthy era since I started. Associates I worked with and clicked with as a summer have since left, and in retrospect I misunderstood the culture having only been exposed to people who likely did not fit into or like the culture. What I'm looking for are ideas on what I can do to develop and have a successful career.

[Anonymous User]

Brush up your resume and start looking to lateral.

[Icculus]

Brush up your resume and start looking to lateral.

If things are as bad as you say this makes sense. Or go knock on doors asking for work.

[Anonymous User]

I have a few interviews lined up, but for personal reasons wanted the firm to make more money because of having me as an associate instead of someone else. So far it's been the opposite, and if I leave it's a pure loss. I know that's odd but I think this may tangenitally impact some future law students, and to be honest this is more important to me than money or my career. Not going to delve into it more, but bis the basic gist freeze out = done and cash in chips?

[Anonymous User]

Even if you start getting hours you should leave. First impressions are sticky, but good news is you can go and make them somewhere else. You don't like the culture as much as you thought anyway and assuming you're biglaw, everyone pays the same so not much of a difference. Most firms will not fire first years, so you're fine for now but look to get out before the clock stops.

[lurklaw]

I have a few interviews lined up, but for personal reasons wanted the firm to make more money because of having me as an associate instead of someone else. So far it's been the opposite, and if I leave it's a pure loss. I know that's odd but I think this may tangenitally impact some future law students, and to be honest this is more important to me than money or my career. Not going to delve into it more, but bis the basic gist freeze out = done and cash in chips?

wut

[glitched]

If you aren't getting experience, you have to get out when you can, regardless of whether the firm is freezing you out or not.

[bwh8813]

I have a few interviews lined up, but for personal reasons wanted the firm to make more money because of having me as an associate instead of someone else. So far it's been the opposite, and if I leave it's a pure loss. I know that's odd but I think this may tangenitally impact some future law students, and to be honest this is more important to me than money or my career. Not going to delve into it more, but bis the basic gist freeze out = done and cash in chips?

I'm not exactly sure what this is saying, but it seems you might be worried about your performance or leaving the firm affecting others from your law school down the road. Is this correct? If so, don't even think about it for a second. You need to look out for #1. CSOs like to guilt students into worrying about how something could potentially reflect on the CSO, school, or other students. Screw that. Your job isn't to make their job easier or even worry about them. You need to do what's best for you and your career.

If that's not what you're saying, then disregard. I've just heard from too many people who think they need to do, or not do, something because their CSO tells them it wouldn't be good for the person, when in reality it would be perfectly fine for the person but potentially an inconvenience for the CSO.

[Anonymous User]

I have a few interviews lined up, but for personal reasons wanted the firm to make more money because of having me as an associate instead of someone else. So far it's been the opposite, and if I leave it's a pure loss. I know that's odd but I think this may tangenitally impact some future law students, and to be honest this is more important to me than money or my career. Not going to delve into it more, but bis the basic gist freeze out = done and cash in chips?

I'm not exactly sure what this is saying, but it seems you might be worried about your performance or leaving the firm affecting others from your law school down the road. Is this correct? If so, don't even think about it for a second. You need to look out for #1. CSOs like to guilt students into worrying about how something could potentially reflect on the CSO, school, or other students. Screw that. Your job isn't to make their job easier or even worry about them. You need to do what's best for you and your career.

If that's not what you're saying, then disregard. I've just heard from too many people who think they need to do, or not do, something because their CSO tells them it wouldn't be good for the person, when in reality it would be perfectly fine for the person but potentially an inconvenience for the CSO.

Not school specific. It's more that if Sarah is the first Mormon attorney at a Houston firm and doesn't fit in, it's human nature to base some of that on her being Mormon on a subconscious level and given the rates of turnover at these places this could have a large impact on future Mormon lawyers in Houston. I'm not Mormon and not religiously diverse, but in the interest of anonymity am using this example. Keeping with this example, I would rather be disbarred than promulgate stereotypes about the ability of Mormons to succeed in the Houston legal market. I can adapt and even if I couldnt, the Mormon community is more important than any one Mormon bringing home a steady paycheck.

[lurklaw]

I have a few interviews lined up, but for personal reasons wanted the firm to make more money because of having me as an associate instead of someone else. So far it's been the opposite, and if I leave it's a pure loss. I know that's odd but I think this may tangenitally impact some future law students, and to be honest this is more important to me than money or my career. Not going to delve into it more, but bis the basic gist freeze out = done and cash in chips?

I'm not exactly sure what this is saying, but it seems you might be worried about your performance or leaving the firm affecting others from your law school down the road. Is this correct? If so, don't even think about it for a second. You need to look out for #1. CSOs like to guilt students into worrying about how something could potentially reflect on the CSO, school, or other students. Screw that. Your job isn't to make their job easier or even worry about them. You need to do what's best for you and your career.

If that's not what you're saying, then disregard. I've just heard from too many people who think they need to do, or not do, something because their CSO tells them it wouldn't be good for the person, when in reality it would be perfectly fine for the person but potentially an inconvenience for the CSO.

Not school specific. It's more that if Sarah is the first Mormon attorney at a Houston firm and doesn't fit in, it's human nature to base some of that on her being Mormon on a subconscious level and given the rates of turnover at these places this could have a large impact on future Mormon lawyers in Houston. I'm not Mormon and not religiously diverse, but in the interest of anonymity am using this example. Keeping with this example, I would rather be disbarred than promulgate stereotypes about the ability of Mormons to succeed in the Houston legal market. I can adapt and even if I couldnt, the Mormon community is more important than any one Mormon bringing home a steady paycheck.

wut

[Fed_Atty]

Not school specific. It's more that if Sarah is the first Mormon attorney at a Houston firm and doesn't fit in, it's human nature to base some of that on her being Mormon on a subconscious level and given the rates of turnover at these places this could have a large impact on future Mormon lawyers in Houston. I'm not Mormon and not religiously diverse, but in the interest of anonymity am using this example. Keeping with this example, I would rather be disbarred than promulgate stereotypes about the ability of Mormons to succeed in the Houston legal market. I can adapt and even if I couldnt, the Mormon community is more important than any one Mormon bringing home a steady paycheck.

From what you posted, it appears that the firm has made a decision that you are not a go-to person from work. I don't know what unique small subset of humanity you may belong to, but I highly doubt that anyone is going to attribute your self-perceived failings to the rest of that subset of humanity.

[bern victim]

weapons-grade imposter syndrome here

[lurklaw]

weapons-grade imposter syndrome here

but infused with unusual levels of narcissism/self-aggrandizement

[barkschool]

weapons-grade imposter syndrome here

[bern victim]

weapons-grade imposter syndrome here

but infused with unusual levels of narcissism/self-aggrandizement

I WOULD RATHER BE DISBARRED THAN BRING SHAME UPON MY HOUSE

op did you just move here from north korea?

[Anonymous User]

Could be possible I've attributed my narcissm and hatred of losing to a supposedly selfless goal. I don't know. I'm not looking for Sigmund Freud level analysis here.

Just tips on how to either rectify the current situation or how to explain it at an interview accurately yet positively. To get back on track, ignore the above and interpret as: I would like those who pay me money to not lose money because of me, which is a more relatable endeavor and to an extent how most people probably feel.

[lurklaw]

op, you're getting freezed out because your research & writing isn't very good, not because you're a little person

[NotMyRealName09]

Could be possible I've attributed my narcissm and hatred of losing to a supposedly selfless goal. I don't know. I'm not looking for Sigmund Freud level analysis here.

Just tips on how to either rectify the current situation or how to explain it at an interview accurately yet positively. To get back on track, ignore the above and interpret as: I would like those who pay me money to not lose money because of me, which is a more relatable endeavor and to an extent how most people probably feel.

"The firm was slow and did not have enough work to go around." That's believable these days.

Also, how big a firm are we talking here? It's been posted here previously, but its a dirty secret that many first years at big / medium firms have slow hours for a lot longer than you'd think. My first year, a fellow SA and I both were struggling to scrape up hours for fucking months on end, twiddling my thumbs sometimes for lack of anything better to do and worrying myself sick that it must mean they hated me and were trying to get me to leave, seeing no way they could justify my salary compared to my productivity. Then once I got to know other Associates better and saw new younger SAs become first year lawyers, I saw it happen to them too (the same paranoia and self-doubt about not being busy). Being slow your first year CAN BE NORMAL, although people don't like to talk about it when your objective worth is seemingly all about the billables. I mean, it is, in the end, but new attorneys at a large firm are generally multiple year investments before they pay off. Getting the early, harsh negative feedback isn't great though either. Who knows.

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

I wouldn't staff an associate who used the word "freezed" either.

[barkschool]

Could be possible I've attributed my narcissm and hatred of losing to a supposedly selfless goal. I don't know. I'm not looking for Sigmund Freud level analysis here.

Just tips on how to either rectify the current situation or how to explain it at an interview accurately yet positively. To get back on track, ignore the above and interpret as: I would like those who pay me money to not lose money because of me, which is a more relatable endeavor and to an extent how most people probably feel.

You don't want to leave because it would cost the firm money?

You are currently a six figure liability no matter the letterhead.

[Anonymous User]

op, you're getting freezed out because your research & writing isn't very good, not because you're a little person

Ask your mother whether she thinks I'm little, and about the quality of my R&W. My R&W melted her ice all night.

[bern victim]

this thread is amazing

[Fed_Atty]

Since we are going full retard here - just figure out how productive you are relative to how productive you should be. Then ask the firm to adjust your salary accordingly. That way you won't dishonor the firm and avoid seppuku

[Anonymous User]

Since we are going full retard here - just figure out how productive you are relative to how productive you should be. Then ask the firm to adjust your salary accordingly. That way you won't dishonor the firm and avoid seppuku

My preference would be the inverse of that.

[LaLiLuLeLo]

Since we are going full retard here

You never go full retard.