Advice for 3.5 at Texas Law Forum

[Anonymous User]

OOS looking at Houston and Dallas, in that order, but willing to go anywhere. No ties other than UT. Some ties to PA and VA. Not KJD but not great work experience. Asian-American URM. Okay interviewer. Any advice appreciated.

[unlicensedpotato]

What are you doing this summer (generally) and where?

[Anonymous User]

What are you doing this summer (generally) and where?

Nothing special, but it's legal experience that pays enough to get me through the summer. In Texas, but not one of my preferred cities.

[Anonymous User]

Specifically, which firms are probably off the table at OCI? Which are my best bets?

[Anonymous User]

Specifically, which firms are probably off the table at OCI? Which are my best bets?

Didn't you get the master OCI list from CSO? With the min/med/max gpas for preselect interviews?

Don't follow the list exactlywith what you can get since there will be lottery and lee way a little, but you'll do fine. You'll probably get biglaw assuming you don't screw up interviews. You are more likely to work in Houston because of bigger class sizes there (although not sure how much oil and gas is changing this now).

[BigZuck]

I'd focus on Houston. Bid smart based on the CSO spreadsheet (meaning don't waste your time with firms that are way out of your league GPA wise). Mass blast literally all of the markets/firms that you aren't bidding on at OCI.

[Anonymous User]

I am the same type of URM with almost identical GPA from UT law, class of 2015. I would say that in my class, folks with 3.5 (especially URMs) were safe. But things have shifted for the worse since then. I work at big law in Houston and my firm's summer class this year is down almost 50% from my year, and last summer a lot of the Houston firms, including V&E, no-offered more people than usual. Transactional practices across the board have been hit hard, so you must take that into account in deciding lit vs corporate. Judging by their resumes, of the 20+ summers at my firm (which recruits heavily from UT), only two from UT had 3.5x and below GPAs this year.

You will need to hustle and will need to cast your net wide. Plan on attending as many diversity job fairs and off-campus OCIs for out-of-state markets as you can.

[Anonymous User]

Where do you get this master OCI List BigZuck?

[Anonymous User]

Where do you get this master OCI List BigZuck?

OP here: OCS e-mailed it to all the 1Ls.

[Anonymous User]

I am the same type of URM with almost identical GPA from UT law, class of 2015. I would say that in my class, folks with 3.5 (especially URMs) were safe. But things have shifted for the worse since then. I work at big law in Houston and my firm's summer class this year is down almost 50% from my year, and last summer a lot of the Houston firms, including V&E, no-offered more people than usual. Transactional practices across the board have been hit hard, so you must take that into account in deciding lit vs corporate. Judging by their resumes, of the 20+ summers at my firm (which recruits heavily from UT), only two from UT had 3.5x and below GPAs this year.

You will need to hustle and will need to cast your net wide. Plan on attending as many diversity job fairs and off-campus OCIs for out-of-state markets as you can.

Would you say things are bad enough in Houston to focus more on Dallas? As for litigation vs. corporate, I'm planning a case-by-case spiel, based on the firm's NALP numbers. Right call? Should I just go with litigation for firms where it's a closer call?

[Anonymous User]

.

[n1o2c3a4c5h6e7t]

Instead of a firm-specific "why lit/corp" speech, the best thing you can do is target NY (mass mailing; fairs; diversity) because it has way more jobs, and target one TX market.

And maybe to some people the lit/corp divide really doesn't matter, but there's a big difference in the day-to-day of it all.

[Anonymous User]

I am the same type of URM with almost identical GPA from UT law, class of 2015. I would say that in my class, folks with 3.5 (especially URMs) were safe. But things have shifted for the worse since then. I work at big law in Houston and my firm's summer class this year is down almost 50% from my year, and last summer a lot of the Houston firms, including V&E, no-offered more people than usual. Transactional practices across the board have been hit hard, so you must take that into account in deciding lit vs corporate. Judging by their resumes, of the 20+ summers at my firm (which recruits heavily from UT), only two from UT had 3.5x and below GPAs this year.

You will need to hustle and will need to cast your net wide. Plan on attending as many diversity job fairs and off-campus OCIs for out-of-state markets as you can.

Would you say things are bad enough in Houston to focus more on Dallas? As for litigation vs. corporate, I'm planning a case-by-case spiel, based on the firm's NALP numbers. Right call? Should I just go with litigation for firms where it's a closer call?

Houston is less concerned with ties than Dallas -- I am not exactly sure how much truth there is to this but everyone keeps repeating it so take it for what you will. An important asterisk to what I said above is that the new corporate kids on the block in Houston seem to be doing very well -- Kirkland, Latham, Orrick, etc. You need to target these firms heavily. On the balance of things, I would still opt for Houston, but then again I'm not nearly as familiar with the Dallas market. Ask around.

Market aside, what do you (think you) want to do? If you are truly on the fence about lit vs corporate, the case-by-case spiel approach may work (i.e. corporate for BB, V&E; lit for NRF and the regional biglaw/midlaw firms that do lots of lit). But to echo the above, the day-to-day of the two is so different that you really don't want to be stuck doing something you hate.

And to repeat: you should attend as many diversity/out-of-state job fairs as you can. NY is a huge market that you cannot ignore. I did not target NY, targeted Houston exclusively, and it almost cost me dearly as I only ended up with one big law offer with those grades (in a much better local economy, plus I grew up in Houston).

[Anonymous User]

I had a bit above a 3.5 GPA at UT when I did OCI and had plenty of interviews but not a lot of success. My best advice would be to practice interviewing. Do the mock interviews, ask CSO to do mock interviews with you (Dean Montoya is the biglaw whisperer), record yourself and watch it later (awkward but helpful).

Also, obviously, mass mail until you have a job. There's no excuse for not mass mailing several hundred firms this summer.

[BigZuck]

Definitely have to mass blast ALL of the apps. It's imperative. Doing the NYC fair is a MUST DO as well, IMO.

[Anonymous User]

At a diversity fair, if I interview with the Houston offices of some firms and the Dallas offices of other firms, will that draw attention/hurt my chances?

[mogwli]

At a diversity fair, if I interview with the Houston offices of some firms and the Dallas offices of other firms, will that draw attention/hurt my chances?

Firms have no idea about who else you are interviewing with unless you tell them. Feel free to put down Houston in Dallas interviews and vice versa without much concern.

[Anonymous User]

For the NY job fair, they require you to list office(s) of interest, but most are just interviewing for the NY office. For firms also in TX, should I list the TX office(s) or just the NY one? Would it hurt me at OCI if I didn't mention the TX office(s) for the NY fair? Would it hurt me at the NY fair if I did mention them? Sorry for the dumb question.

[Anonymous User]

For the NY job fair, they require you to list office(s) of interest, but most are just interviewing for the NY office. For firms also in TX, should I list the TX office(s) or just the NY one? Would it hurt me at OCI if I didn't mention the TX office(s) for the NY fair? Would it hurt me at the NY fair if I did mention them? Sorry for the dumb question.

At my firm (offices in TX and NY but not TX-based) it's pretty much an auto rejection if you mention more than one office

[Anonymous User]

For the NY job fair, they require you to list office(s) of interest, but most are just interviewing for the NY office. For firms also in TX, should I list the TX office(s) or just the NY one? Would it hurt me at OCI if I didn't mention the TX office(s) for the NY fair? Would it hurt me at the NY fair if I did mention them? Sorry for the dumb question.

At my firm (offices in TX and NY but not TX-based) it's pretty much an auto rejection if you mention more than one office

Do you also track who interviews at both an OCI and off-campus job fairs?

[Anonymous User]

For the NY job fair, they require you to list office(s) of interest, but most are just interviewing for the NY office. For firms also in TX, should I list the TX office(s) or just the NY one? Would it hurt me at OCI if I didn't mention the TX office(s) for the NY fair? Would it hurt me at the NY fair if I did mention them? Sorry for the dumb question.

At my firm (offices in TX and NY but not TX-based) it's pretty much an auto rejection if you mention more than one office

Do you also track who interviews at both an OCI and off-campus job fairs?

They do (this is all based on what recruiting has told me). I'm sure it varies by firm though.

[Anonymous User]

At my firm (NY-based; office(s) in TX), there's no problem in applying to multiple offices in the same firm. Just emphasize that you want [firm], not [city].

[Anonymous User]

Latham is the only firm I know who will ding you for applying to multiple offices. I interviewed with multiple offices for V&E, BB, HayBoo, and a few other biglaw firms, and I have friends who interviewed (and got offers) after interviewing at multiple offices of the same firm.

[Anonymous User]

Yeah I don't think anyone besides Latham cares about applying for two offices.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone have personal experience with Dechert, K&S, STB, Orrick, or Willkie? For the NY fair, they all indicate multiple interviews are not allowed. Bracewell and Akin Gump's NY offices seem fine with multiple interviews, but both their TX offices prohibit them under their OCI entries.