UChicago OCI 2016 Forum

[Eldon Tyrell]

That looks pretty good - have no idea about MPLS bidding though. Ropes with only ten spots might go faster than where you have them. But the other ones seem fairly well prioritized.

[pennepacker]

That looks pretty good - have no idea about MPLS bidding though. Ropes with only ten spots might go faster than where you have them. But the other ones seem fairly well prioritized.

thanks for the quick feedback. would bumping Ropes up to 1-2 significantly jeopardize Perkins or Jenner?

any firms i've omitted that I should tack on?

[Eldon Tyrell]

That looks pretty good - have no idea about MPLS bidding though. Ropes with only ten spots might go faster than where you have them. But the other ones seem fairly well prioritized.

thanks for the quick feedback. would bumping Ropes up to 1-2 significantly jeopardize Perkins or Jenner?

any firms i've omitted that I should tack on?

Probably. I think they might be mutually exclusive. I wouldn't want you to miss out on the big Chicago firms because they hire so many more people. I would keep Perkins and Jenner where they are. That's the tough part about bidding some of these smaller offices. They go very quickly.

And no, I don't think you have omitted any firms you should be focusing on.

[Anonymous User]

Random question:
For multi-office, single-interview firms...
as long as we get one of our bids for that firm, we will be doing a single screener for all the offices we bid on, right?
(http://www.law.uchicago.edu/students/2L ... ob/bidding)

If I'm equally interested in two offices, one more popular (like Chicago), one much less popular (like Singapore),
could I just place both bids very low, knowing that I'll definitely get Singapore?

[Anonymous User]

How do people generally fill out the bottom of their lists? Say 25-50?

[Eldon Tyrell]

How do people generally fill out the bottom of their lists? Say 25-50?

I think this is part of the reason why everyone says bid NY. There are firms that don't fill up until the 20s or 30s. Might as well if you're bidding Chicago or DC or something since those firms will definitely be gone by then.

[bill_swerski]

FYI most NY firms fill up by 20 (and many by 15). So if you are banking on getting some NY firms beyond 20 I doubt it will be more than 3 (and they will typically be those with super small class sizes)

[Anonymous User]

Stupid question for non-multiple interview bids, should you rank one office very high and the other just as a token bid? Because only one of those bids is going to be counted?

[Anonymous User]

Grades: Incoming Transfer Student (10%, T1)
Work Exp: 5-6 years (nothing fancy) and a few good legal internships (transactional and litigation).
Preferred Market: CA (LA/OC/SD) >>>>>>>>>>> NY (safety)
Practice Area: Interested in Tax but open to whatever. I know LA is lit heavy.
Bid list:

1. Latham & Watkins LA (12 shared - 7 in 2015)
2. Shearman & Sterling NY (21)
3. Gibson Dunn LA (10)
4. Skadden LA (21)
5. Paul Weiss NY (42)
6. Morrison Foerster LA (21)
7. Cleary Gottlieb NY (42)
8. Proskauer Rose LA (21)
9. Sidley Austin LA (21)
10. O'Melveny NB (4)
11. Debevoise NY (63)
12. Holland & Knight LA (11 shared - 1 in 2015)
13. Cadwalader NY (21)
14. Jones Day LA (21 shared - 8 in 2015)
15. Cooley LA (42 shared - 7 in 2015)
16. Foley & Lardner LA (21 shared - 6 in 2015)
17. WilmerHale NY (21)
18. Mayer Brown LA (7)
19. Paul Hastings OC (2)
20. Kirkland Ellis LA (21)
21. Fenwick & West MV (21 shared)
22. Fried Frank NY (21)
23. Vinson Elkins NY (21 shared - 4 in 2015)
24. Winston Strawn LA (21 shared - 7 in 2015)
25. Munger Tolles LA (21)
26. Perkins Coie LA (7 shared)
27. Norton Rose LA (21 shared)
28. Covington Burling LA (21 shared)
29. Irell & Manella LA (21)
30. Fox Rothschild LA (9 shared)

UPDATE:

1. Latham LA (12s)
2. Paul Hastings LA (8)
3. Skadden LA (21)
4. Shearman NY (21)
5. Gibson Dunn LA (10)
6. Sidley Austin LA (21)
7. Cleary NY (42)
8. Proskauer LA (21)
9. Morrison Foerster LA (21)
10. O'Melveny LA (11)
11. Cadwalader NY (21)
12. Jones Day LA (21s)
13. Wilson Sonsini (21s)
14. Debevoise NY (63)
15. Cooley LA (42s)
16. Foley & Lardner LA (21s)
17. Mayer Brown LA (7)
18. Holland & Knight LA (11s)
19. WilmerHale NY (21)
20. Kirkland Ellis LA (21)
21. Baker Hostetler LA (17s)
22. Vinson Elkins NY (21s)
23. Winston Strawn LA (21s)
24. Norton Rose LA (21s)
25. Perkins Coie LA (7s)
26. Fox Rothschild LA (9s)
27. Rutan Tucker OC (10)
28. Polsinelli LA (13s)
29. Dechert OC (21s)
30. Munger LA (21)
31. Irell Manella LA (21)

Kept Munger and Irell on at the end. Last year people got interviews bidding them 41 and 50 respectively. Figured it was worth a shot.
I put Dechert OC low because they had no successful bids last year (self-selection?)
Kirkland and Baker Hostetler in ok positions? Wilson Sonsini too high?

Thanks!

[WheninLaw]

Grades: Incoming Transfer Student (10%, T1)
Work Exp: 5-6 years (nothing fancy) and a few good legal internships (transactional and litigation).
Preferred Market: CA (LA/OC/SD) >>>>>>>>>>> NY (safety)
Practice Area: Interested in Tax but open to whatever. I know LA is lit heavy.
Bid list:

1. Latham & Watkins LA (12 shared - 7 in 2015)
2. Shearman & Sterling NY (21)
3. Gibson Dunn LA (10)
4. Skadden LA (21)
5. Paul Weiss NY (42)
6. Morrison Foerster LA (21)
7. Cleary Gottlieb NY (42)
8. Proskauer Rose LA (21)
9. Sidley Austin LA (21)
10. O'Melveny NB (4)
11. Debevoise NY (63)
12. Holland & Knight LA (11 shared - 1 in 2015)
13. Cadwalader NY (21)
14. Jones Day LA (21 shared - 8 in 2015)
15. Cooley LA (42 shared - 7 in 2015)
16. Foley & Lardner LA (21 shared - 6 in 2015)
17. WilmerHale NY (21)
18. Mayer Brown LA (7)
19. Paul Hastings OC (2)
20. Kirkland Ellis LA (21)
21. Fenwick & West MV (21 shared)
22. Fried Frank NY (21)
23. Vinson Elkins NY (21 shared - 4 in 2015)
24. Winston Strawn LA (21 shared - 7 in 2015)
25. Munger Tolles LA (21)
26. Perkins Coie LA (7 shared)
27. Norton Rose LA (21 shared)
28. Covington Burling LA (21 shared)
29. Irell & Manella LA (21)
30. Fox Rothschild LA (9 shared)

UPDATE:

1. Latham LA (12s)
2. Paul Hastings LA (8)
3. Skadden LA (21)
4. Shearman NY (21)
5. Gibson Dunn LA (10)
6. Sidley Austin LA (21)
7. Cleary NY (42)
8. Proskauer LA (21)
9. Morrison Foerster LA (21)
10. O'Melveny LA (11)
11. Cadwalader NY (21)
12. Jones Day LA (21s)
13. Wilson Sonsini (21s)
14. Debevoise NY (63)
15. Cooley LA (42s)
16. Foley & Lardner LA (21s)
17. Mayer Brown LA (7)
18. Holland & Knight LA (11s)
19. WilmerHale NY (21)
20. Kirkland Ellis LA (21)
21. Baker Hostetler LA (17s)
22. Vinson Elkins NY (21s)
23. Winston Strawn LA (21s)
24. Norton Rose LA (21s)
25. Perkins Coie LA (7s)
26. Fox Rothschild LA (9s)
27. Rutan Tucker OC (10)
28. Polsinelli LA (13s)
29. Dechert OC (21s)
30. Munger LA (21)
31. Irell Manella LA (21)

Kept Munger and Irell on at the end. Last year people got interviews bidding them 41 and 50 respectively. Figured it was worth a shot.
I put Dechert OC low because they had no successful bids last year (self-selection?)
Kirkland and Baker Hostetler in ok positions? Wilson Sonsini too high?

Thanks!

You really should remove Munger, unless you literally have no other firm to bid. It's not happening.

Otherwise, looks good to me.

[chicago-gunner123]

Grades: 177.6 (No LR or journal)
URM/Female: No
Work Exp: 1 year
Preferred Market: Chicago/NYC
Practice Area: Corporate/Transactional

1. Baker & McKenzie Chicago
2. Sidley Austin Chicago
3. Kirkland & Ellis Chicago
4. Latham Chicago
5. Jones Day Chicago
6. Skadden New York
7. Skadden Chicago
8. Sullivan Cromwell New York
9. Davis Polk New York
10. Simpson Thacher New York
11. Ropes & Gray Chicago
12. Debevoise & Plimpton New York
13. Mayer Brown Chicago
14. Cleary New York
15. Paul Weiss New York
16. Winston & Strawn Chicago
17. McDermott Chicago
18. Cooley New York
19. Schiff Hardin Chicago
20. Katten Muchin Chicago
21. White & Case New York
22. Vedder Price Chicago
23. Perkins Coie Chicago
24. Mofo New York
25. K&L Gates Chicago
26. DLA Piper Chicago
...

Mainly focusing on Chicago and NYC. Given my lower GPA, is it even worth it bidding on firms like Sullcrom, Davis Polk, or Skadden?

IMO I'd drop Sullcrom and replace them with White & Case. Not sure about Skadden, but I'd keep Davis Polk (they usually will hire down to median). I'd also flip Winston & Katten with Ropes & Mayer Brown (Winston & Katten are good target firms for your GPA you don't want to miss out on). Lastly, consider adding Shearman NYC somewhere in your top 15 (perhaps replace Debevoise)

I wouldn't remove Debevoise, 177.6 puts you just in range for them. I would add Fried Frank and Shearman to your list. It's worth having Weil on your bidlist somewhere as well instead of a MoFo NY. All 3 of those firms will have bigger class sizes than MoFo NY and are more likely to call back more people

[Anonymous User]

Alright: here's my final bid list that I think I've got down. 179, secondary journal, leaning towards lit. Please tell me if I'm making some mistake I'm not seeing before bidding ends!

1. Latham (SD) (12 shared)
2. Gibson Dunn (LA) (13)
3. Paul Hastings (LA) (8)
4. O’Melveny & Myers (LA-Century City) (8)
5. Cooley (SD) (42 shared)
6. Skadden (LA) (21)
7. Morrision and Foerster (LA) (21)
8. Jones Day (LA) (21 shared)
9. Sidley Austin (LA) (21)
10. Kirkland & Ellis (LA) (21)
11. Mayer Brown (LA) (7)
12. Norton Rose Fulbright (LA) (21 shared)
13. Covington (LA) (21 shared)
14. polsinelli pc (LA) (13 shared)
15. proskauer rose llp (LA) (21)
16. Perkins Coie (LA) (12)
17. Debevoise (NY) (63)
18. SullCrom (NY)
19. Foley and Lardner (LA/SD) (21 shared)
20. Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati (LA) (21 shared)
21. Holland & Knight LLP (11 shared)
22. Perkins Coie LLP (SD) (7 shared)
23. Irell (LA) (21)
24. Rutan Tucker OC (10)
25. Winston Strawn (LA) (21 shared)
26. Munger (LA) (21)
27. Susman Godfrey (LA)(19 shared)
28. fox rothschild llp (LA) (9 shared)
...

[Anonymous User]

I'm still trying to figure out something: why does it matter how many markets you bid? If, for example, I bid the ten firms with the largest class sizes in LA, SF, NY, Chi, and DC why is that any more risky than bidding just LA firms? This is, of course, assuming I don't reveal to interviewers that I'm bidding five markets.

[Eldon Tyrell]

I'm still trying to figure out something: why does it matter how many markets you bid? If, for example, I bid the ten firms with the largest class sizes in LA, SF, NY, Chi, and DC why is that any more risky than bidding just LA firms? This is, of course, assuming I don't reveal to interviewers that I'm bidding five markets.

It's not that you shouldn't bid more than two markets, full stop. But class sizes and selectivity are rarely equal among markets, and people rarely have good grades across the board. Plus it's difficult to bid certain markets, since they might end up going at the same time in bid lists. So it's partially an issue of maximizing interview slots and offer numbers.

It's harder to get offers in DC and SF than in LA. And even LA isn't easy. So if someone with a 177-178 with weak California ties bids DC/SF/LA, that would be extremely high risk. That's why you'll hear a lot of people recommend bidding NY as a backup, because that median ish person needs to be exposing themselves to firms with higher offer rates and bigger class sizes. If you bid three markets instead of two, that's really not going to be the factor that prevents you from getting a job. But I can probably assure you, the more markets you bid, assuming non-superstar grades, the less convincing ties you'll have across those multiple markets. The more markets you bid, the more the firms you likely have a shot at are crowded out, since markets are so different.

So in my opinion, it's better to focus on fewer markets that you really want, to increase the odds of ending up in one specific place, with a firm that's within reach. I'm not sure if it's correlation or causation but the people who bid tons of markets tend not to have a good idea of their chances, save for a few special snowflakes. The person who was bidding on five markets earlier was aiming for the absolute most selective firms out there, without the grades that they require. His bid list so was populated with those crazy good firms that he was sacrificing good Chicago firms where he should have been close to a lock. I wouldn't have done that if it were me, but you have to make your own choices in this process ultimately.

In general, I think one to two target markets, with NY as a back up is the most reasonable strategy for anyone below 180.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know when we get bid results?

[WheninLaw]

I'm still trying to figure out something: why does it matter how many markets you bid? If, for example, I bid the ten firms with the largest class sizes in LA, SF, NY, Chi, and DC why is that any more risky than bidding just LA firms? This is, of course, assuming I don't reveal to interviewers that I'm bidding five markets.

Eldon's answer is right. I will add, however, that interviewers will often ask where else you are bidding, and lying is stupid. Most markets want you to be committed to being there.

[KMart]

Does anyone know when we get bid results?

Thursday at noon or 12:30.

[lawlschool1l]

delete

[chicago-gunner123]

I'm still trying to figure out something: why does it matter how many markets you bid? If, for example, I bid the ten firms with the largest class sizes in LA, SF, NY, Chi, and DC why is that any more risky than bidding just LA firms? This is, of course, assuming I don't reveal to interviewers that I'm bidding five markets.

Eldon's answer is right. I will add, however, that interviewers will often ask where else you are bidding, and lying is stupid. Most markets want you to be committed to being there.

Thanks for the responses, it makes sesnse. But why exactly is lying stupid (aside from whatever moral qualms you might have)?

Lying is stupid because often you will be interviewing with other firms the same day. One reason is that it is always possible they will either see you walking in or they will talk to other interviewers. So if you say "I am only bidding NY" and they see that you're interviewing with a DC firm right afterwards it's not a great look. Another reason is that most people are not as good at lying as they think they are. So, when you say "I'm only bidding NY" and you're from Chicago and lived there your whole life, the interviewer will probably follow up on that with more questions.

I know people lied in my class and it sometimes worked for them, but it isn't necessary when you can just tell the truth and as long as you have a compelling reason for working at that specific firm it won't be a problem.

Also, I should probably add that while I agree with TCR in this thread that you should bid NY, the NY firms started asking about ties last year and were sometimes aggressive about it. Every single NY firm I interviewed at asked me why NY? (15+ firms) and often they asked follow-up questions. Other markets still ask more about ties, but before the last 2 years NY firms apparently didn't ask about ties at all. NY still has the biggest class sizes and most flexible grade cut-offs so I still recommend bidding it to reduce risk, but I just want to remind people to have some sort of answer prepared as to why they want to be in NY.

[Anonymous User]

Every single NY firm I interviewed at asked me why NY? (15+ firms) and often they asked follow-up questions.

If you don't mind me asking: what sort of follow up questions did they ask?

[Anonymous User]

Could someone explain, or direct me to someplace that explains the mechanics of picking up extra screeners once the OCI process actually begins?

[Eldon Tyrell]

I'm still trying to figure out something: why does it matter how many markets you bid? If, for example, I bid the ten firms with the largest class sizes in LA, SF, NY, Chi, and DC why is that any more risky than bidding just LA firms? This is, of course, assuming I don't reveal to interviewers that I'm bidding five markets.

Eldon's answer is right. I will add, however, that interviewers will often ask where else you are bidding, and lying is stupid. Most markets want you to be committed to being there.

Thanks for the responses, it makes sesnse. But why exactly is lying stupid (aside from whatever moral qualms you might have)?

You can get yourself in trouble. Everyone stretches the truth, but don't go crazy.

[bill_swerski]

Could someone explain, or direct me to someplace that explains the mechanics of picking up extra screeners once the OCI process actually begins?

Do you mean extra slots that open up or approaching interviewers the day of and asking for an interview with them?

[Anonymous User]

Different anon, but would be interested in how to approach interviewers for interviews. Especially since we don't have hospitality suites.

[bill_swerski]

Different anon, but would be interested in how to approach interviewers for interviews. Especially since we don't have hospitality suites.

Just arrive super early and ask if they would have time to include you (interviewers may be willing to talk with you during their lunch break), and give them your transcript. Most interviewers should be willing to chat with you.