2.94 at Columbia/NYU, experience and demonstrated interest in corporate, good interviewer according to career services Forum

[Anonymous User]

I was bad at law school. Based on summer job so far it seems that I'm not too bad at being a lawyer, but obviously need a job before that's of any use. Below are the top 10 on my bid list. How fucked am I, are there any obvious firms I should bid on that I'm missing, and is there anything else I should know? Thanks.

Cadwalader
Cahill
Clifford Chance
Fried Frank
Milbank
Paul Hastings
Proskauer
Shearman
Schulte
Willkie

[MCFC]

Don't believe what career services tells you about being a good interviewer. You need to practice practice practice. I know Columbia has an interview coach, NYU probably does too.

[Anonymous User]

You will not got offers at those firms. Need to aim lower.

[Anonymous User]

You will not got offers at those firms. Need to aim lower.

Such as?

[Anonymous User]

You will not got offers at those firms. Need to aim lower.

Such as?

Ask career services. It is hard to get offers from the dead-bottom of the class (unless you are URM), and you need to be realistic.

[Anonymous User]

I have no delusions about how difficult the road ahead is. The problem that I see with going too far down the list is that class sizes get so small. The firms I chose are pretty much the lowest ranked vault-wise without having class sizes under 10 or even 5. It seems to me that even a higher ranked firm would have more latitude with GPA selectivity when its class size is much larger.

I'm in close contact with career services. The reason I'm here is that I want opinions in addition to career services. If you think those firms are completely unrealistic, I'd really appreciate suggestions of alternative firms to bid on. Thanks.

[rawrpalooza]

I have no delusions about how difficult the road ahead is. The problem that I see with going too far down the list is that class sizes get so small. The firms I chose are pretty much the lowest ranked vault-wise without having class sizes under 10 or even 5. It seems to me that even a higher ranked firm would have more latitude with GPA selectivity when its class size is much larger.

I'm in close contact with career services. The reason I'm here is that I want opinions in addition to career services. If you think those firms are completely unrealistic, I'd really appreciate suggestions of alternative firms to bid on. Thanks.

You need to hustle hard this summer. If you're in NYC, attend all firm receptions and email firm attorneys at the least-grade selective firms (career services should have this info) to get coffee. One of the big advantages of going to a school like CLS/NYU is that you have a vast alum network available to you; use it. Track the attorneys you meet with a spreadsheet, and be prepared to namedrop during OCI. Fully gun transactional/corporate.

Think of it this way: your GPA is not good, so you need to give firms another reason to give you a look. Your margin of error is much smaller than for those at median or above, so you need to blow your interviewers away with some combination of clear interest in X firm, great interviewing skills, strong prior w/e, and URM status/diversity. When you give your OCI interviewer your resume with your GPA on it, they're probably going to think that you are not a strong candidate to begin with; it is up to you to prove them wrong in the next 20 minutes.

[Anonymous User]

I have no delusions about how difficult the road ahead is. The problem that I see with going too far down the list is that class sizes get so small. The firms I chose are pretty much the lowest ranked vault-wise without having class sizes under 10 or even 5. It seems to me that even a higher ranked firm would have more latitude with GPA selectivity when its class size is much larger.

I'm in close contact with career services. The reason I'm here is that I want opinions in addition to career services. If you think those firms are completely unrealistic, I'd really appreciate suggestions of alternative firms to bid on. Thanks.

You need to hustle hard this summer. If you're in NYC, attend all firm receptions and email firm attorneys at the least-grade selective firms (career services should have this info) to get coffee. One of the big advantages of going to a school like CLS/NYU is that you have a vast alum network available to you; use it. Track the attorneys you meet with a spreadsheet, and be prepared to namedrop during OCI. Fully gun transactional/corporate.

Think of it this way: your GPA is not good, so you need to give firms another reason to give you a look. Your margin of error is much smaller than for those at median or above, so you need to blow your interviewers away with some combination of clear interest in X firm, great interviewing skills, strong prior w/e, and URM status/diversity. When you give your OCI interviewer your resume with your GPA on it, they're probably going to think that you are not a strong candidate to begin with; it is up to you to prove them wrong in the next 20 minutes.

Thanks a lot for this advice, it's very helpful. I've been going to a firm event pretty much every night there is one and having at least 2 or 3 good conversations. I've also been following up with everyone but you think I should be asking them for coffee as well?

[rawrpalooza]

I have no delusions about how difficult the road ahead is. The problem that I see with going too far down the list is that class sizes get so small. The firms I chose are pretty much the lowest ranked vault-wise without having class sizes under 10 or even 5. It seems to me that even a higher ranked firm would have more latitude with GPA selectivity when its class size is much larger.

I'm in close contact with career services. The reason I'm here is that I want opinions in addition to career services. If you think those firms are completely unrealistic, I'd really appreciate suggestions of alternative firms to bid on. Thanks.

You need to hustle hard this summer. If you're in NYC, attend all firm receptions and email firm attorneys at the least-grade selective firms (career services should have this info) to get coffee. One of the big advantages of going to a school like CLS/NYU is that you have a vast alum network available to you; use it. Track the attorneys you meet with a spreadsheet, and be prepared to namedrop during OCI. Fully gun transactional/corporate.

Think of it this way: your GPA is not good, so you need to give firms another reason to give you a look. Your margin of error is much smaller than for those at median or above, so you need to blow your interviewers away with some combination of clear interest in X firm, great interviewing skills, strong prior w/e, and URM status/diversity. When you give your OCI interviewer your resume with your GPA on it, they're probably going to think that you are not a strong candidate to begin with; it is up to you to prove them wrong in the next 20 minutes.

Thanks a lot for this advice, it's very helpful. I've been going to a firm event pretty much every night there is one and having at least 2 or 3 good conversations. I've also been following up with everyone but you think I should be asking them for coffee as well?

In my opinion, OCI is all about working smart, not hard. To an extent thus, I think it depends on who the attorneys are/how much power they have in the recruiting process. In other words, quality over quantity for the firm individuals you prioritize meeting up with.

For instance, a first-year associate at most firms will have essentially no say in who gets hired or not. Conversely, firm recruiters or the attorneys who are coming to interview at OCI are incredibly vital to your success. One strategy I used at firm receptions was casually asking attorneys who I really got along with if they knew who would be coming to my school to conduct OCI interviews. If I could get a name, I would then ask that attorney to coffee and try my best to convince them that their firm was my #1 choice, and how I was the best candidate for X Y Z reasons. I managed to convert a couple of those into pre-OCI CBs, and even if I couldn't do so, I got CBs from those same interviewers at OCI even though we basically just shot the shit for those 20 minutes because we had already chatted for an hour beforehand.

[moonman157]

I actually think that that's a pretty solid list to focus on, and reach out to every firm that comes to OCI. I had a higher GPA than you but I had success with some of the smaller, less grade conscious firms because I made special efforts to reach out to them. But you don't want to focus too much of your attention there because the class sizes are so small. I think the list you have focuses on firms that aren't as grade conscious but still have large NYC summer classes

[moonman157]

And to add to the list, I think Orrick, DLA, Kaye Scholer, Hogan Lovells, Winston, Dechert, and Kramer might be other firms to reach out to (all NYC offices).

And if you have any ties to secondary markets, reach out to any firms there and do interviews. You may get an offer, and at least it will give you practice if you can get some interviews.

[Anonymous User]

I was bottom 5% at a T10 a few years back and while I struck out at OCI, I was able to land a decent amount of callbacks from hustling (and ended up at a V10 firm after graduation). You need to hit up partners at every firm you would be remotely interested in working for. Look for alumni of your law school (and if same UG, even better). If a partner hits it off with you and likes you, it will be an automatic callback. Then you just need to go and crush the callback and hope it worked. My grades were so low that it didn't matter, but I had multiple partners reach out after the fact to stay in touch and get my grades up and reapply for 3L.

Doing this will also boost confidence and make you a savvier person later in your career. Partners will respect someone with the balls to reach out and have a good conversation with them (most law students don't have good social skills) and so most will immediately have a good impression of you (just don't be weird). Would recommend doing this for every firm and every office you are interested in (set up phone calls for firms in different cities or states, as well).

[Anonymous User]

And to add to the list, I think Orrick, DLA, Kaye Scholer, Hogan Lovells, Winston, Dechert, and Kramer might be other firms to reach out to (all NYC offices).

And if you have any ties to secondary markets, reach out to any firms there and do interviews. You may get an offer, and at least it will give you practice if you can get some interviews.

Winston was always a good bet for folks with GPA challenges. Also Chadbourne, Hughes Hubbard, Stroock, Seward & Kissel, Greenberg Traurig, DLA, etc...