Is Biglaw for ppl with no debt? Forum

[Anonymous User]

I noticed that majority of recent grads are all competing to get in, and the majority of associates with 2+ years in are desperately trying to get out. It seems like it has been this way for the last decade.

My question is I understand the need for biglaw pay to pay down the debt but if u have no debt, is it still desirable? Does biglaw train assciates better than at smaller firms? If debt wasnt a factor would you still do biglaw?

[Nebby]

Don't know why this is anon. And biglaw is for people that want biglaw regardless of debt

[Anonymous User]

Some people want practices that don't exist outside of biglaw.

[Nebby]

You damn anon goobers

[DELG]

Biglaw is a rubber stamp for a lot of jobs you might want.

[Anonymous User]

It can be difficult to maintain a social life in biglaw, which is why people without debt might want to avoid it. That said, it is a good way to save up a decent amount of money in a short period of time if you are frugal. As alluded to, it also depends on your goals. Many in house positions require some time at a law firm (though options to go directly in house are increasing a bit). Same for certain government jobs that require experience, etc.I would propose that the vast majority of people do not like biglaw for its own sake, but are using it as a means to an end.

[shruteHoosier]

Why would you need to be anonymous for this post?

[Pokemon]

Absolutely unless you are born rich. Even in nyc, you can probably save easily over 100k in two years of biglaw. That is a great safety net for most people. Without all the debt, biglaw should also feel less stressful

[Anonymous User]

I have no debt and I'm a non-biglaw firm summer. Couldn't be happier. Good firm, good work, good pay for reasonable hours. This is the kind of firm that people spend their entire careers in, because they're not just trying to get rid of 50% of the class every two years and people aren't burning out from working 14 hours a day.

Sometimes I think about doing 3L OCI to switch to biglaw, because it's really easy to get swept up in a biglaw or bust mentality in law school, especially if you go to a T14 or somewhere where most of your peers are doing biglaw. Everyone gets a raise and I'm not, bummer. Everyone's going to fancy events and I'm not, bummer.

But that's really short sighted because the reality is that most people do not enjoy biglaw and do not survive biglaw. I know myself, I know that's not the lifestyle for me. I have the luxury of being able to make a decision about what I want to do without having to worry about paying down debt, I choose to take advantage of that and not do something I know will make me miserable.

Law school is kind of this vicious cycle where you forgo a free ride at a local school so you can go to Columbia so you can get a fancy job to pay down the massive amount of debt you incurred by going to Columbia, and then you stay in that job so you can afford to live in the ludicrously expensive city you moved to. You join a journal because everyone has to even though you don't want to and then worry if you didn't make law review even though law review sounds terrible. You worry if your firm is V ranked high enough. You worry about what caliber of F500 company you can go in-house in based on how your firm is ranked. I feel like law school fosters an environment that is just so obsessed with prestige that people lose sight of everything else.

That's just my 2 cents. Biglaw if you want to. Don't if you don't. Just don't allow other people's priorities to become your priorities. You have the freedom to to whatever you want, so think about what that means to you. There are countless biglaw lawyers who would kill to have the option to not have to be in biglaw.

[Nebby]

Why would you need to be anonymous for this post?

Who knows man, who knows. Half the anon posts in legal employment have no reason to be anon but here we are

[LaLiLuLeLo]

It certainly can be. For example, I'm in Los Angeles. Though I have debt, if I didn't I'd probably still do biglaw. It would be a quick way to become a homeowner. If I went a small firm or other route it would take years to be able to afford a house. More so if you're in the Bay. I always saw biglaw as a means to an end: suffer for a couple of years, then you'll have options (buy a house, spring to a well-paying but far more chill job, etc).

[Ohiobumpkin]

Do you like making gobs of money?

[Anonymous User]

Why would you need to be anonymous for this post?

Who knows man, who knows. Half the anon posts in legal employment have no reason to be anon but here we are

Why is this even an issue? Why do u feel the need to know which of countless usernames is asking a general question? It is a weird thing to be offended over

[star fox]

Anon abuse complainers are literally the worst.

[Nebby]

Why would you need to be anonymous for this post?

Who knows man, who knows. Half the anon posts in legal employment have no reason to be anon but here we are

Why is this even an issue? I just feel more comfortable asking questions as anon. It is a weird thing to be offended over

I'm not offended at all. I think it's weird that you ask an anon question when the purpose of anon is to divulge information that could be outing or sensitive information.

It's not really an issue. I just poke fun at goobers who think they are so important that they have to anon for the most inane questions

[Anonymous User]

Anon abuse complainers are literally the worst.

Yeah. Fuck those people.

Like, I have absolutely no reason to be uncomfortable while asking inane questions. But that doesn't mean I can't still be careful because you never know. I heard that all firm recruitment offices have a dedicated TLSer who searches every poster's history and figures out who they are. If they see me being hesitant about biglaw, then they'll likely not give me an offer during OCI.

[Anonymous User]

Why would you need to be anonymous for this post?

Who knows man, who knows. Half the anon posts in legal employment have no reason to be anon but here we are

Why is this even an issue? I just feel more comfortable asking questions as anon. It is a weird thing to be offended over

I'm not offended at all. I think it's weird that you ask an anon question when the purpose of anon is to divulge information that could be outing or sensitive information.

It's not really an issue. I just poke fun at goobers who think they are so important that they have to anon for the most inane questions

Not everyone posts bcuz they feel theyre important. I just dont like implying i graduated with no debt bcuz there are a lot of ppl struggling w debt here. It is still really strange this would bother u enough to complain about it. Like who cares what is the big deal.

[LaLiLuLeLo]

Anon abuse complainers are literally the worst.

Yeah. Fuck those people.

Like, I have absolutely no reason to be uncomfortable while asking inane questions. But that doesn't mean I can't still be careful because you never know. I heard that all firm recruitment offices have a dedicated TLSer who searches every poster's history and figures out who they are. If they see me being hesitant about biglaw, then they'll likely not give me an offer during OCI.

If that were true so many people would've been fucked.

[Anonymous User]

If you have no debt, don't do biglaw. It has made me depressed (serious). I intend on never working for a firm again (yes, it's that bad).

[Anonymous User]

If you have no debt, don't do biglaw. It has made me depressed (serious). I intend on never working for a firm again (yes, it's that bad).

Could you elaborate a bit based on the question I asked in OP? In particular do you think biglaw trained you better than smaller firms could? What was so bad about it?

[Anonymous User]

Not sure why you would want big law if you have no interest in it + no debt. You will come home wanting to cry every night and burn out within 3 years.

[Tiago Splitter]

How many legitimate jobs are there for entry level lawyers? 15,000? Whatever the number is, about 7,000 of those are in biglaw. It's not like there are a lot of other options out there, and the horror stories from the 2-10 attorney firms are just as bad.

[Anonymous User]

I don't think biglaw has to be that bad. I am an associate at a biglaw firm in a cool, secondary market (think Denver, Seattle, Austin), and I get paid market (180k/year now with the raises). On average, I probably work 50-55 hours a week, which is honestly not that bad in the grand scheme of things. I've had a few brutal months, but they are the exception.

I would say avoid NYC at all costs. It really is much worse there. If you can snag a biglaw gig in a secondary market, go for it (even better if it pays NYC market).

One of the things i like about biglaw (besides the money) is that it gives you some time to think about what you want to do. I had no idea what I wanted to do when I graduated. I knew I didn't want to litigate, but beyond that I was clueless. Now I've had a little time to work, save money, and think more about my next move without closing any doors.

[UnicornHunter]

When you work BigLaw with NODEBT youre putting away like $4000 more a month than your peers with BIGDEBT, thus making you better off than your peers and happier than your peers. When you work BigGov with NODEBT you make the same as your peers, but you don't get to participate in PSLF, which is probably worth like 2 years of salary over ten to your peers with BIGDEBT.

[Anonymous User]

I don't have any debt and I'm planning on litigating at a biglaw firm for awhile after clerking is over. I'm hoping the ability to fuck it and quit if I want to will make things a little less stressful for me. The knowledge that I can bank $60,000 in savings my first year (not even including bonus) is also a pretty nice inducement in the scheme of things.