Departing Midlaw/"Regional Biglaw" Litigation Associate Taking Qs Forum

[Anonymous User]

This forum's been of great use to me, so time to do what I can to give back. Have packed up my office and will try to answer your questions - shoot! In a nutshell, I think these types of firms (which obviously can differ a lot case-by-case) are a pretty sweet deal, with pay that rivals true biglaw [at least early on] when adjusted for CoL and typically better opportunities to get substantively involved in cases early on. The caveat is that getting in the door can be difficult.

(Just for some background: I was median at a T14, clerked at a state court for a year, and then did lit for about 2 years at a regional firm. Firm has about 200 attorneys, give or take, in a number of smaller cities (think, e.g., Greenville, SC; Des Moines, IA; Reno, NV). Firm is recognized as one of a handful of respected local firms alongside a few biglaw satellites in its region.)

[pancakes3]

Where are you departing to? To where are you departing?
Are you in your home market/school market? Was that the plan all along?
Pay/pay increase info?
Prevalence of "regional flagship" grads v T14 at your midlaw firm?
What's recruiting like?

[Anonymous User]

[OP here]

Where are you departing to? To where are you departing?
Are you in your home market/school market? Was that the plan all along?
Pay/pay increase info?
Prevalence of "regional flagship" grads v T14 at your midlaw firm?
What's recruiting like?

1. A3 clerkship in a district adjacent to a much bigger market (recently moved to a big city - think all 4 pro sports teams - for my wife's career)
2. Was not in my home market. Was in my school's region. Wasn't really the plan but I used some OCI interviews on a few firms in the region knowing that sticking around might be easiest for coordinating careers with my wife, who was applying to grad school. Just happened to work out.
3. Roughly $100k starting out. As is typical for these firms, pay increases are relatively small. But CoL is really, really low. I'm not sure any of my fellow associates more than 2 years in were still renting.
4. Traditionally, lots of "regional flagship" types, but a number of T14s are also represented, and in the past few years my school alone has sent 4-5 of us to my firm.
5. Fairly typical OCI + callback, but fit & ties are paramount. They'll typically only interview law review or top 10-20% from the local flagships, but will dip down to median and sometimes even below for T14 grads with ties. The tough part with firms of this size is SA offer rates - we've no-offered a number of people over the last few years. Sometimes the individuals themselves were an issue, other times it was an [apparently unforeseen] turn in economics. And at a firm this size the entire class in a given year is almost certainly less than 10 so it's tough getting in the door to begin with.

[Anonymous User]

I'm a first year at a similar type firm (but in major market). What's your sense of opportunities from these places? When is the sweet spot in terms of moving on?

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for doing this. In a similar situation, though in a smaller market and at a smaller firm (working in lit, single office, roughly 70 attorneys in an e.g. Des Moines tertiary market)

What's your plan after your clerkship?
Was it challenging getting an A3 clerkship after being a few years out?
What made you decide to leave? Were you partner-track?
Any advice for someone going into a similar situation?
Did you feel like your experience marketable? Or was it a tough sell?

[20160810]

Greenville is a rad town if that was actually where you lived. I went there for a wedding last year and loved it.

[Anonymous User]

[OP here]

I'm a first year at a similar type firm (but in major market). What's your sense of opportunities from these places? When is the sweet spot in terms of moving on?

See below.

Thanks for doing this. In a similar situation, though in a smaller market and at a smaller firm (working in lit, single office, roughly 70 attorneys in an e.g. Des Moines tertiary market)

What's your plan after your clerkship?
Was it challenging getting an A3 clerkship after being a few years out?
What made you decide to leave? Were you partner-track?
Any advice for someone going into a similar situation?
Did you feel like your experience marketable? Or was it a tough sell?

1. Hopefully BigFed or state government. I ideally want to return to my home state/region, but obviously you can't afford to be picky, particularly with regard to bigfed. I think the most likely outcome is a DA's office, but that may be an uphill climb.

2. A3 is always a craps shoot but the experience must have helped. It was tougher to get clerkship interviews for me than it was to get interviews at BigFed jobs I thought would be far more competitive. But I had read on here before that median @ T14 + biglaw experience can get you some D. Ct. interviews that you wouldn't have had a prayer getting coming straight out of school and I think that held true for me - I got a handful of interviews (plus an interview with a fairly well regarded State Supreme Ct.) and finally got an offer on the fourth try, though I had a connection to that chambers that probably helped somewhat.

3. It took me all of about a month to re-realize what I had known throughout law school - that I have no interest in private practice. I was a full blown prosecution gunner that almost sort of just happened to pick up a firm job and rolled with it. Even though I found that I could motivate myself to work hard for my clients and that I enjoy litigation when the rubber hits the road, the prospect of business development (which as you know is a very real responsibility very early on at firms like ours) gave me actual anxiety. Partnership is a very, very realistic proposition for associates at my firm but it seemed to me like an endless rat race of "where does the next client/matter come from?" (Yeah, I was partner-track). I also want to be a trial lawyer, or at least a lawyer with trial skills, and while associates at my firm can start taking depositions really early on and luck into a trial here and there, the real lack of any trial work turned me off to complex lit generally. We also decided we didn't want to stay in a small market, particularly in the region we were in.

4. It just depends an awful lot and what you ultimately want to do and your reasons for leaving. I know that I'll enjoy clerking again because I love research & writing, but I know that I ultimately want to litigate, just a matter of figuring out the right spot and hopefully getting there.

5. I have always thought (and still tend to think) that scope (especially geographically) of exit opps is possibly the single biggest disadvantage of regional firms as opposed to true biglaw, even though I think we frequently tend to get far better experience earlier on. With that said, I honestly didn't find it to be an impediment, but that also depends on what/where you're trying to exit to. I wouldn't like my chances of going regional firm --> biglaw in DC. The feds didn't seem to care very much that I came from a firm they didn't readily recognize; fancy UG and law school probably helped in that regard.

[los blancos]

Greenville is a rad town if that was actually where you lived. I went there for a wedding last year and loved it.

I've been to Greenville, it's nice enough. The nice thing about towns like Greenville is that there's enough going on but you're also close enough to big cities to get that fix when you need it. Western half of the country >>>>> South, though, IMO. Greenville does get bonus points for being right next to the NC mountains, which are beautiful.

[20160810]

Greenville is a rad town if that was actually where you lived. I went there for a wedding last year and loved it.

I've been to Greenville, it's nice enough. The nice thing about towns like Greenville is that there's enough going on but you're also close enough to big cities to get that fix when you need it. Western half of the country >>>>> South, though, IMO.

Ya I'm California all the way. The south really has its perks tho