SA: How badly can I screw up work product and still get offer? Forum

[Anonymous User]

I'm a biglaw SA at a big firm but in a small office. I'm the only SA in my class (has me worried that I'm being compared to 1st / 2nd year associates because no other SAs around).

I haven't had any major screw ups but I feel like almost every time they ask me to do sth it gets send back and I need to redo it. Sometimes that's because they didn't explain it fully / didn't give enough background but sometimes it's also because I forgot some of the details. Another issue I've been having is with really simple proof reading. This should be impossible to mess up and yet I can't seem to get it right - I usually mark up too much which obviously ends up wasting my supervisors time because he has to go through a bunch of unnecessary markups. (When I say too many mark ups I mean stuff like: X is defined in the definitions section of this contract and capitalized; I mark up when it is not capitalized in the text and I am not 100% whether it is referring to the specific or the general meaning of X.) I've been trying to get better at this but it just keeps happening ...

As the title suggests: I'm basically trying to figure out how much I can screw up my work product and still get an offer - either in general or specifically in small offices with small summer classes which tend to more unpredictable. Any experiences / anecdotes to share? Thanks!

[Anonymous User]

Generally, as long as you are trying hard and not checked out, you should be fine. However, at smaller shops (e.g. where you are the only summer associate) market norms do not tend to be hard rules.

[Anonymous User]

The unfortunate reality is that nobody is going to be able to give you terribly useful information, because the length of your proverbial leash depends upon the firm, the office, the specific partners and associates in that office, your practice group, and a host of other things. So please treat every response here, however well-intentioned, as the speculation that it is.

I have been at my firm for 4 years. Every year, we generally take on 3 summers in my office. In that time, I have seen one summer associate get no-offered due to performance issues. He was a very nice, well-liked guy but he just didn't get it. His grades and law school rank were a little lower than our usual and he got the offer in the first place due to having a good resume otherwise and being gregarious during the interview process, so my guess is that he started out on a slightly shorter leash with respect to work product. Once the summer began, he consistently demonstrated that he just didn't get it. Simple research memos would take an extremely long time; he missed deadlines more than once; in one of his earlier memos he cited federal statutes as simply "28 U.S.C." throughout. His mistakes were numerous, and they were the sort of mistakes that left us with the impression that he wasn't ready to work at the firm.

Summers aren't expected to show up knowing the law. But they are expected to know how to learn. If you think you're having trouble with that part, my advice is to use the absolute hell out of every single resource at your disposal. Piece of advice number A-1: Utilize Westlaw research attorneys. Call them on every memo. Tell them the assignment and your conclusion and say "I just want to make sure this sounds right." They will generally talk you through the searches they run, and by the end of the summer your research will be far more proficient even when you don't use them.

Also, talk with other associates. Go in the firm's library and use the practice guides. In CA, Rutter is the gold standard and I used to be religious about starting every project with a trip to the index of the relevant Rutter guide. It's much better than blindly Googling until you get a hook.

It may be that you've already created a bad impression with your work product thus far. Fortunately, you have time to do better work. But first impressions are a bitch to overturn, so my advice is you absolutely kill the other aspects of this audition. In general, summers are evaluated on three criteria: (1) Conduct, (2) Fit, and (3) Work product. We've already discussed (3), but (1) and (2) are biggies as well.

Make sure that your conduct is unimpeachable. Do all of the little things. Enter your time daily. Use all the right forms. Follow every procedure to the letter, no matter how minimal. Outside of the office, make sure that you don't get too drunk at any firm event. Learn the dress code and follow it. (That includes following it on Friday - don't show up wearing a full suit and shined shoes if everyone else is in jeans and a polo.) Etc.

Fit might be the most crucial. People who are liked get a longer leash - that's just human nature. Go out to lunch with partners. Get beers after work with associates. Go to every single social event. Follow the local sports teams and be conversant in their comings and goings. If you can "save" yourself, this may well be how you do it. Good luck.

[nick417]

Summers aren't expected to show up knowing the law. But they are expected to know how to learn. If you think you're having trouble with that part, my advice is to use the absolute hell out of every single resource at your disposal. Piece of advice number A-1: Utilize Westlaw research attorneys. Call them on every memo. Tell them the assignment and your conclusion and say "I just want to make sure this sounds right." They will generally talk you through the searches they run, and by the end of the summer your research will be far more proficient even when you don't use them.

This is great advice. I used westlaw research attorneys for every single legal research assignment I had. One, as a jumping off point if I struggled, and two, to make sure I didn't miss any glaring law.

[Anonymous User]

Not OP but but what does it mean to use a Westlaw research attorney? I'm totally unfamiliar with this and would appreciate an example on the sort of thing you'd call & ask about.

[20160810]

Not OP but but what does it mean to use a Westlaw research attorney? I'm totally unfamiliar with this and would appreciate an example on the sort of thing you'd call & ask about.

Call the number at the bottom of the screen. Then either ask legal questions or just start talking dirty.

[mushybrain]

You can also use the chat! I use that instead of calling. Pretty much any time I'm doing a more complex search I'll fire up a chat just to say "hey I did this because I wanted XYZ, did I catch it all?" and they'll let me know if there's another search that might get at what I want a little better.

[20160810]

You can also use the chat! I use that instead of calling. Pretty much any time I'm doing a more complex search I'll fire up a chat just to say "hey I did this because I wanted XYZ, did I catch it all?" and they'll let me know if there's another search that might get at what I want a little better.

The chat feature is extremely useful if you're multitasking. I like to use it to knock out some research while I'm stuck on hold doing court calls. The bottom line is to just use something. The research attorneys have been, absolutely without fail, extremely nice and helpful. West law is an amazing tool and most users barely scratch the surface of what it can do.